Morals Are Completely Subjective

Nineveh · Oct 19, 2006

The thread title was a statement made by Freedomcry on this thread.

That absolutely blows my mind. Morals are completely subjective. To who? Each individual? A nation?

Is it a subjective thing to know raping a 3 year old comatose girl is wrong?

Wamba · Oct 19, 2006

I'm going to bump this for Freedomcry.

Freedomcry · Oct 19, 2006

Nineveh said:
The thread title was a statement made by Freedomcry on this thread.

That absolutely blows my mind. Morals are completely subjective. To who? Each individual? A nation?

Is it a subjective thing to know raping a 3 year old comatose girl is wrong?

I would prefer to live in a society where all convicted rapists were put to death. I wouldn't tolerate rape in any shape or form.

As for what is right or wrong: Yes, right and wrong are completely subjective. Do I find rape "right"? No. Does a rapist? Maybe, maybe not. You'll have to talk to them.

Btw, I'm leaving work now. So I won't be able to post for about 15 minutes.

drbrumley · Oct 19, 2006

FreedomCry said:
Do I find rape "right"? No. Does a rapist? Maybe, maybe not.

Who gives a rip about what the rapist feels is moral or not. I can't believe you would even advocate this nonsense.

Nineveh · Oct 19, 2006

Freedomcry said:
As for what is right or wrong: Yes, right and wrong are completely subjective. Do I find rape "right"? No.

So?

You think they should be put to death. Who made your subjective view dominant? Or are you just willing to leave it up to a majority of lawmakers who may or may not know it's wrong?

Does a rapist? Maybe, maybe not. You'll have to talk to them.

Either it is or is not "right" to rape a 3 year old comatose girl. You seem willing enough to support the death penalty for the "crime" but not willing to enforce your view it's "wrong". That's really weird.

Freedomcry · Oct 19, 2006

drbrumley said:
Who gives a rip about what the rapist feels is moral or not. I can't believe you would even advocate this nonsense.

I'm sure there are plenty of psychologists and criminal investigators that would like to know the inner workings and moral standards or a rapist in an effort to prevent rape.

Freedomcry · Oct 19, 2006

Nineveh said:
So?

You think they should be put to death. Who made your subjective view dominant? Or are you just willing to leave it up to a majority of lawmakers who may or may not know it's wrong?

Either it is or is not "right" to rape a 3 year old comatose girl. You seem willing enough to support the death penalty for the "crime" but not willing to enforce your view it's "wrong". That's really weird.

No one made my subjective view dominant. Thankfully I live in a democratic society.

I certainly condemn rape, no matter what age be of the victim. I purpose the death penalty, not because it's a crime, but because I don't want to live in a society where rapists are present.

Nineveh · Oct 20, 2006

Freedomcry said:
No one made my subjective view dominant. Thankfully I live in a democratic society.

Thankfully .... until the subjectiveness is something you don't agree with?

I certainly condemn rape, no matter what age be of the victim.

So?

I purpose the death penalty, not because it's a crime, but because I don't want to live in a society where rapists are present.

So?

Is it beyond your ability to say, "rape is wrong."?

Granite · Oct 20, 2006

Morals are not absolute, by which you could reasonably say they are situational. Not sure about subjective, though.

Freedomcry · Oct 20, 2006

Nineveh said:
Thankfully .... until the subjectiveness is something you don't agree with?

Exactly. I'm not naive. Everyone looks out for their own best interest. Even when I fireman runs into a burning building to save 10 children, he's action based on his own self interest. It would pain him more to see those children die than for him to die while saving them.

In this way, it can be seen that everyone is inherently selfish and -only- able to act in their self interest. Any "selfless" act by a person can be seen as an atempt for that person to avoid pain (emotional, or physical).

Nineveh said:
So?
...
So?

Is this a question?

Nineveh said:
Is it beyond your ability to say, "rape is wrong."?

No. In the course of everyday life, the words "right" and "wrong" are of great value. They are tools. If someone casually asks me, "Is rape wrong?" I'm going to say, "Of course, it's very wrong."

Use of the words right and wrong give person insight into what other people generally consider as favorable and unfavorable.

However, this is not the same as when talking about the deeper philosophical meanings of "right" and "wrong". In a cosmic and universal sense, I believe there to be no absolute rights or wrongs. Reality is blind to man made morals.

Nineveh · Oct 20, 2006

Freedomcry said:
Exactly. I'm not naive. Everyone looks out for their own best interest. Even when I fireman runs into a burning building to save 10 children, he's action based on his own self interest. It would pain him more to see those children die than for him to die while saving them.

Wow... that's a pretty universal statement if morals are so subjective.

In this way, it can be seen that everyone is inherently selfish and -only- able to act in their self interest. Any "selfless" act by a person can be seen as an atempt for that person to avoid pain (emotional, or physical).

Another universal statement if morals are subjective.

Is this a question?

No, they are statements of fact. Who cares what you think, morals are subjective.

No. In the course of everyday life, the words "right" and "wrong" are of great value. They are tools. If someone casually asks me, "Is rape wrong?" I'm going to say, "Of course, it's very wrong."

oooOOOoooo

You can't say that. You believe morals are subjective. Be consistent.

Use of the words right and wrong give person insight into what other people generally consider as favorable and unfavorable.

Based on what? The subjective nature of morals?

However, this is not the same as when talking about the deeper philosophical meanings of "right" and "wrong". In a cosmic and universal sense, I believe there to be no absolute rights or wrongs. Reality is blind to man made morals.

I can see your point. You can't define right and wrong other than a consensus. When asked a simple question like, "is rape wrong?" You have to fib and say, "yes", but you don't seem to want to honest and complete that answer with, "but only for me."

Maybe you should appeal to a higher authority than men, who may or may not agree with you on only given moral issue.

Freedomcry · Oct 20, 2006

Nineveh said:
Wow... that's a pretty universal statement if morals are so subjective.

Another universal statement if morals are subjective.

No, they are statements of fact. Who cares what you think, morals are subjective.

oooOOOoooo

You can't say that. You believe morals are subjective. Be consistent.

Based on what? The subjective nature of morals?

Now you're getting it.

Nineveh said:
I can see your point. You can't define right and wrong other than a consensus. When asked a simple question like, "is rape wrong?" You have to fib and say, "yes", but you don't seem to want to honest and complete that answer with, "but only for me."

The reason I don't usually say, "but only for me" is to avoid harm and persecution from the shallow minded people that let blind emotions control them rather than logic.

Nineveh said:
Maybe you should appeal to a higher authority than men, who may or may not agree with you on only given moral issue.

Sorry, I don't blindly follow others. I was blessed (or cursed) with a critical intellect.

Nineveh · Oct 20, 2006

Freedomcry said:
Now you're getting it.

Nope. See, you want to go by some consensus, but you haven't stated who's yet.

The reason I don't usually say, "but only for me" is to avoid harm and persecution from the shallow minded people that let blind emotions control them rather than logic.

Oh, you mean, you want to avoid being called a moron because it's only wrong for you to rape a comatose 3 year old girl.

Sorry, I don't blindly follow others.

"what other people generally consider as favorable and unfavorable."

Oops, you forgot your qualifier, there.

I was blessed (or cursed) with a critical intellect.

Oh, glad you pointed that out, I would have never guessed.

Freedomcry · Oct 20, 2006

Nineveh said:
Nope. See, you want to go by some consensus, but you haven't stated who's yet.

Oh, you mean, you want to avoid being called a moron because it's only wrong for you to rape a comatose 3 year old girl.

"what other people generally consider as favorable and unfavorable."

Oops, you forgot your qualifier, there.

Oh, glad you pointed that out, I would have never guessed.

So, are you going to actually make an argument? Or do you only have cutting remarks?

Nineveh · Oct 20, 2006

Freedomcry said:
So, are you going to actually make an argument? Or do you only have cutting remarks?

I don't think it's possible for you to answer who's consensus. You have avoided that question like the plague. When offered a higher standard than your own (that can not state without equivocation that raping a comatose 3 year old is absolutely wrong) you avoid that too.

Freedomcry · Oct 20, 2006

Nineveh said:
You have avoided that question like the plague. I don't think it's possible for you to answer who's consensus.

Could you clarify this? I'll honestly try to answer it.

Nineveh said:
When offered a higher standard than your own (that can not state without equivocation that raping a comatose 3 year old is absolutely wrong) you avoid that too.

How exactly is a standard higher than another?

As I said before, in my opinion, raping in any context is wrong. I would prefer to live in a society where all convicted rapists were executed.

However, my morals are based on my own best interest. This is true for everyone, but no one admits it.

It pains me greatly when I learn of someone being raped. Therefore, in order to avoid that pain, I do what I can to support the fight against rape.

Granite · Oct 20, 2006

Nineveh said:
I don't think it's possible for you to answer who's consensus. You have avoided that question like the plague. When offered a higher standard than your own (that can not state without equivocation that raping a comatose 3 year old is absolutely wrong) you avoid that too.

Why is a higher standard needed?

Cadence · Oct 20, 2006

Freedomcry said:
I would prefer to live in a society where all convicted rapists were put to death. I wouldn't tolerate rape in any shape or form.

As for what is right or wrong: Yes, right and wrong are completely subjective. Do I find rape "right"? No. Does a rapist? Maybe, maybe not. You'll have to talk to them.

Btw, I'm leaving work now. So I won't be able to post for about 15 minutes.

I don't see why anyone in America needs to rape. There are far too many willing participants for that particular activity for you to need to force someone into it who isn't willing.

Freedomcry · Oct 20, 2006

Cadence said:
I don't see why anyone in America needs to rape. There are far too many willing participants for that particular activity for you to need to force someone into it who isn't willing.

No one needs rape. Where are you getting this from?

Nineveh · Oct 20, 2006

Granite said:
Why is a higher standard needed?

Because a majority of 3 year old raping freaks are still wrong even if they vote to make their actions legal.

Morals Are Completely Subjective

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