Is the doctrine of Eternal Conscious Torment biblical or not?
- Thread starter Timotheos
- Start date
That statement has nothing to do with the topic.
If you would just accept that you don't have all the answers, that you actually do not know everything, then I would be able to help you. I don't mind that you just insulted me, except that it stands in the way of me helping you.
People pedalling religion on the street should be prosecuted under Trades Description Act (UK) for not having any evidence to back up their claims!
Amen Brother! Saving souls is Jesus' job, not mine.
I just point out what the Bible says. If someone thinks they know it all, they won't listen to what the Bible says. It seems that this was the trouble with the Pharisees. The religious leaders of the time (or they thought they were)
And the Bible says that the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.
Just sowing seeds. The birds come and snatch some away before they can sprout, some wither due to lack of depth, others are choked out by the weeds of conceit.
I will keep praying that God will open your eyes, and soften your heart so the truth can sprout.
God bless you.
People die. It can't be denied. Jesus rose from the dead, according to the scriptures. You don't have to believe the the scriptures, but if you put your faith in Jesus Christ, you can have eternal life too. What do you have to lose?
May God richly bless you, whatever you decide.
Aimiel
Well-known member
Once again, you prove you don't know what The Bible says: "The fruit of the righteous is a tree of life; and he that winneth souls is wise."
freelight
Eclectic Theosophist
action and consequence.......
action and consequence.......
My expose on certain points as to why ECT is problematic still stands, and the principle of karma and self-responsibility still stands in the mediation of all thoughts, words and actions. "Whatever a man sows, that also shall he reap". "With what measure you measure, it shall be measured back to you" - this plays out as far as one's own experience is concerned, as all actions are mediated by this universal law (whether the reaping of what is sown is manifested sooner or later in time). A 'god' inflicting eternal torment(punishment) on a soul to no end or resolution is heinous.
This opens up new insights and dialogue into the nature and duration of so called 'punishment' (which is actually a consequence of 'sin' {trangressing the law}),.....since a soul can only suffer AS LONG as it sins, and is reaping the consequence of such, whether this continues in varying degrees of torment per the degree of 'sin', or ultimately culminates to an apex-point of eternal 'death' (disintegration of soul or individual consciousness).
We might note also that as long as a soul has the ability and potential to return to God, the availability for Love to save the soul still exists UNLESS a soul cannot for whatever reason repent or has reached a point of no return where the principle of sin (death) has manifested its full effect. Our debate has been whether the wages of sin is 'death' (termination of existence) or ECT.
This is more than a black & white issue (there is more than one view), since we have the complexity of the the soul's nature and the principles of 'life' and 'death' and how they affect the soul to consider. My former points hold here in this thread, so the dialogue is open for those who choose to reconsider their positions and really research the matter. That after all, is what 'dialogue' or 'discussion' is all about.
As noted previously, tit for tat over what is 'biblical' (an arbitrary term) can carry on til the cows come home,...but the laws and principles that govern the soul's experience and conditions of consciousness are what hold....since these are what actually determine our 'experience' at any moment in time (no matter what religious mythology or belief-system we have chosen to adopt).
pj
action and consequence.......
My expose on certain points as to why ECT is problematic still stands, and the principle of karma and self-responsibility still stands in the mediation of all thoughts, words and actions. "Whatever a man sows, that also shall he reap". "With what measure you measure, it shall be measured back to you" - this plays out as far as one's own experience is concerned, as all actions are mediated by this universal law (whether the reaping of what is sown is manifested sooner or later in time). A 'god' inflicting eternal torment(punishment) on a soul to no end or resolution is heinous.
This opens up new insights and dialogue into the nature and duration of so called 'punishment' (which is actually a consequence of 'sin' {trangressing the law}),.....since a soul can only suffer AS LONG as it sins, and is reaping the consequence of such, whether this continues in varying degrees of torment per the degree of 'sin', or ultimately culminates to an apex-point of eternal 'death' (disintegration of soul or individual consciousness).
We might note also that as long as a soul has the ability and potential to return to God, the availability for Love to save the soul still exists UNLESS a soul cannot for whatever reason repent or has reached a point of no return where the principle of sin (death) has manifested its full effect. Our debate has been whether the wages of sin is 'death' (termination of existence) or ECT.
This is more than a black & white issue (there is more than one view), since we have the complexity of the the soul's nature and the principles of 'life' and 'death' and how they affect the soul to consider. My former points hold here in this thread, so the dialogue is open for those who choose to reconsider their positions and really research the matter. That after all, is what 'dialogue' or 'discussion' is all about.
As noted previously, tit for tat over what is 'biblical' (an arbitrary term) can carry on til the cows come home,...but the laws and principles that govern the soul's experience and conditions of consciousness are what hold....since these are what actually determine our 'experience' at any moment in time (no matter what religious mythology or belief-system we have chosen to adopt).
pj
The ECT people do not believe anyone dies, not even Jesus Christ died according to them.
LA
the second death says it all
the first is of our earthly body
the second is of our soul
the real question is
why would anyone want anyone to suffer eternally?
that is what needs to be addressed
the first is of our earthly body
the second is of our soul
the real question is
why would anyone want anyone to suffer eternally?
that is what needs to be addressed
I apologise for the silly spelling error!
However the nutters, and they are certainly that here in the UK, who stand on the street making nuisances of themselves, bring Christianity into disrepute that is for sure!
Every group of people has a subgroup of nutters. We have our fair share. I like to try to not be obnoxious all the time.
The bible says "make it your ambition to lead a quiet life: You should mind your own business..."
(1st Thessalonians 4:11)
The evangelical dogma, 'you must be 'saved', or go to hell', is sicker than sick, and abusive when kids are threatened with it! I make no apology for condemning that evil nastiness whenever I can!
I agree. If Christians behaved as Christ commanded, everyone would be better off. He commanded us to love other people, especially those who disagree with us. He fed the hungry, healed the sick, cared for the unwanted and rejected. We should be like that.
doloresistere
New member
There is no hell in the sense of there being a place of eternal conscious torment. There is a judgement however and the evangelical dogma should be "you must be saved or face the judgement."