Epoisses
New member
Who's this us you keep talking about?
You sound like Gollum from the Lord of the Rings.
The Myth of saying that Jesus Christ died for all men without exception !
- Thread starter beloved57
- Start date
Who's this us you keep talking about?
You sound like Gollum from the Lord of the Rings.
beloved57
Well-known member
Where did I say that ?
Show us the quote or admit you just lied and misrepresented what I posted !
:duh: Read post 469!!!
beloved57
Well-known member
Where did I say this?
Show us the quote or admit you just lied and misrepresented what I posted !
Your post BL 57. The Jews are the lost sheep of Israel and He came to preach to them. And only means only. Now clarify your post and stop dodging the question.
beloved57
Well-known member
Where did I say this?
Show the quote or admit that you intentionally lied and misrepresented what I posted !
I've come to the conclusion that you can't comprehend what you read let alone having the ability to read. Wake up and smell the coffee. You said what you said, admit it and be done with it.
beloved57
Well-known member
I have come to the conclusion that you are a liar, until you show me where I said what you stated I said:
Where did I say this?
As far as what I believe about salvation, its testified to and clarified in my many threads !
beloved57
Well-known member
The Lord Jesus Christ did not die for all mankind without exception, for that is one of the biggest lies ever told. The scripture is very clear as to whom it is that He Loved and died for, for He Loved and died for His Church Eph 5:25
25 Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;
Paul here states exactly who Christ died for by inspiration. Its the World of His Church, or His Body which He is the Head of. He died for His Kingdom, for He is a King of which He must have a Kingdom; He died for the World consisting of His Bride, since He is the Bridegroom. Scripture teaches that God the Father picked the bride for the Bridegroom, Remember Issac and Rebekkah ?
25 Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;
Paul here states exactly who Christ died for by inspiration. Its the World of His Church, or His Body which He is the Head of. He died for His Kingdom, for He is a King of which He must have a Kingdom; He died for the World consisting of His Bride, since He is the Bridegroom. Scripture teaches that God the Father picked the bride for the Bridegroom, Remember Issac and Rebekkah ?
beloved57
Well-known member
He died for the Children of God !
Jn 11:50-52
50 Nor consider that it is expedient for us, that one man should die for the people, and that the whole nation perish not.
51 And this spake he not of himself: but being high priest that year, he prophesied that Jesus should die for that nation;
52 And not for that nation only, but that also he should gather together in one the children of God that were scattered abroad.
One of the biggest lies ever told and believed in false religion is that Christ died for all mankind without exception.
But scripture testimony is clear that He died only for some of mankind, this time in this passage its pointed out to be the Children of God, both those found in the nation of Israel and those scattered abroad, meaning in the gentile nations.
It is the Children of God as a result of Christ's death, that will be gathered to Christ, meaning they will come to Him in Faith, which makes manifest they were the Children of God. In Salvation and conversion believers make manifest who the Children of God are 1 Jn 3:10
In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.
That word manifest means phaneros:
apparent, manifest, evident, known
2) manifest i.e to be plainly recognised or known
They become apparent, or recognized, evident or known, whereas before conversion [faith and or repentance] they are not known to be the Children of God, not that they were not, they were but it was not evident as such.
But Faith in Christ makes it evident Gal 3:26
For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.
Jesus said, all that the Father giveth me shall come to me Jn 6:37, well Jesus is referring to the Children of God God gave Him to die for. Heb 2:13
And again, I will put my trust in him. And again, Behold I and the children which God hath given me.
The Children of Jn 11:51-52.
Its God's Children who shall be taught of God and so they come to Him Jn 6:44-45
44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.
45 It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me.
Now lets go to where this is written in the prophets to Identify whom Christ is stating shall be taught of God Isa 54:13
13 And all thy children shall be taught of the Lord; and great shall be the peace of thy children.
It is God's Children that shall be Taught of Him resulting in their coming to Christ. Its the same Truth taught in Heb 12:6
6 For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth.
Involved in this chastening is the teaching and learning from God. The word chasteneth here means to:
to train children
a) to be instructed or taught or learn
b) to cause one to learn
That's why the children come to Christ in Faith Jn 6:44-45. Again they are the ones the Father gave to the Son Heb 2:13 and it was for them He suffered and died Heb 2:9-10. Every son that He tasted death for Heb 2:9, shall be taught of God, and they shall come to Christ, believing on Him for Salvation, the Captain of their Salvation Heb 2:10 !
No, Christ did not die for the children of the devil which are also manifested 1 Jn 3:10
10 In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.
Jn 11:50-52
50 Nor consider that it is expedient for us, that one man should die for the people, and that the whole nation perish not.
51 And this spake he not of himself: but being high priest that year, he prophesied that Jesus should die for that nation;
52 And not for that nation only, but that also he should gather together in one the children of God that were scattered abroad.
One of the biggest lies ever told and believed in false religion is that Christ died for all mankind without exception.
But scripture testimony is clear that He died only for some of mankind, this time in this passage its pointed out to be the Children of God, both those found in the nation of Israel and those scattered abroad, meaning in the gentile nations.
It is the Children of God as a result of Christ's death, that will be gathered to Christ, meaning they will come to Him in Faith, which makes manifest they were the Children of God. In Salvation and conversion believers make manifest who the Children of God are 1 Jn 3:10
In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.
That word manifest means phaneros:
apparent, manifest, evident, known
2) manifest i.e to be plainly recognised or known
They become apparent, or recognized, evident or known, whereas before conversion [faith and or repentance] they are not known to be the Children of God, not that they were not, they were but it was not evident as such.
But Faith in Christ makes it evident Gal 3:26
For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.
Jesus said, all that the Father giveth me shall come to me Jn 6:37, well Jesus is referring to the Children of God God gave Him to die for. Heb 2:13
And again, I will put my trust in him. And again, Behold I and the children which God hath given me.
The Children of Jn 11:51-52.
Its God's Children who shall be taught of God and so they come to Him Jn 6:44-45
44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.
45 It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me.
Now lets go to where this is written in the prophets to Identify whom Christ is stating shall be taught of God Isa 54:13
13 And all thy children shall be taught of the Lord; and great shall be the peace of thy children.
It is God's Children that shall be Taught of Him resulting in their coming to Christ. Its the same Truth taught in Heb 12:6
6 For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth.
Involved in this chastening is the teaching and learning from God. The word chasteneth here means to:
to train children
a) to be instructed or taught or learn
b) to cause one to learn
That's why the children come to Christ in Faith Jn 6:44-45. Again they are the ones the Father gave to the Son Heb 2:13 and it was for them He suffered and died Heb 2:9-10. Every son that He tasted death for Heb 2:9, shall be taught of God, and they shall come to Christ, believing on Him for Salvation, the Captain of their Salvation Heb 2:10 !
No, Christ did not die for the children of the devil which are also manifested 1 Jn 3:10
10 In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.
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beloved57
Well-known member
His People !
Who are Christ's People He died for in order to save them from their sins ? Matt 1:21
21 And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name Jesus: for he shall save his people from their sins.
They are the foreknown of God as Per Rom 11:2
2 God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew. Wot ye not what the scripture saith of Elias? how he maketh intercession to God against Israel saying,
They are the same as here also Rom 8:29
29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.
Which are those He Predestinated, So His People whom He came to die for and save were His Predestinated ones, those whom He did foreknow. He did not come to save all mankind without exception. He never came to die for and save those He shall say this to Matt 7:23
23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
That's certainly not any of Matt 1:21, whether jew or gentile.
Who are Christ's People He died for in order to save them from their sins ? Matt 1:21
21 And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name Jesus: for he shall save his people from their sins.
They are the foreknown of God as Per Rom 11:2
2 God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew. Wot ye not what the scripture saith of Elias? how he maketh intercession to God against Israel saying,
They are the same as here also Rom 8:29
29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.
Which are those He Predestinated, So His People whom He came to die for and save were His Predestinated ones, those whom He did foreknow. He did not come to save all mankind without exception. He never came to die for and save those He shall say this to Matt 7:23
23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
That's certainly not any of Matt 1:21, whether jew or gentile.
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Why does MAD deny this basic verse for the Church Age?!
beloved57
Well-known member
Ex 34:5-7
5 And the Lord descended in the cloud, and stood with him there, and proclaimed the name of the Lord.
6 And the Lord passed by before him, and proclaimed, The Lord, The Lord God, merciful and gracious, longsuffering, and abundant in goodness and truth,
7 Keeping mercy for thousands, forgiving iniquity and transgression and sin, and that will by no means clear the guilty; visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children, and upon the children's children, unto the third and to the fourth generation.
This verse here Vs 7 shows hat the LORD did not have mercy to Save all mankind, but only some.
Now God's Mercy in forgiving Iniquity, and Transgression and Sin was provided for in Christ before the World began 1 Pet 1:20
20 Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you,
He was the Surety set up for the Everlasting Covenant Ps 103:10-17
10 He hath not dealt with us after our sins; nor rewarded us according to our iniquities.
11 For as the heaven is high above the earth, so great is his mercy toward them that fear him.
12 As far as the east is from the west, so far hath he removed our transgressions from us.
13 Like as a father pitieth his children, so the Lord pitieth them that fear him.
14 For he knoweth our frame; he remembereth that we are dust.
15 As for man, his days are as grass: as a flower of the field, so he flourisheth.
16 For the wind passeth over it, and it is gone; and the place thereof shall know it no more.
17 But the mercy of the Lord is from everlasting to everlasting upon them that fear him, and his righteousness unto children's children;
These would also be describing the Vessels of Mercy Rom 9:23
And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory,
God's Mercy is exercised towards them Christ died for, because Christ bare their Punishment for their sin and in doing so He purged them of their sins Heb 1:3
Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high:
Now this word purged[katharismos] means, :
a cleansing, purification, a ritual purgation or washing
a) of the washing of the Jews before and after their meals
b) of levitical purification of women after childbirth
c) a cleansing from the guilt of sins wrought by the expiatory sacrifice of Christ
So this corresponds to those God shews Mercy to forgiving sin, transgression and iniquity.
But on the other hand, God does not clear the guilty ! The Guilty are those Christ did not die for. The word clear in Ex 34:7
7 Keeping mercy for thousands, forgiving iniquity and transgression and sin, and that will by no means clear the guilty; visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children, and upon the children's children, unto the third and to the fourth generation.
That word is the Hebrew naqah and means:
to be empty, be clear, be pure, be free, be innocent, be desolate, be cut off
a) (Qal) to be empty, be clean, be pure
b) (Niphal)
1) to be cleaned out, be purged out
2) to be clean, be free from guilt, be innocent
3) to be free, be exempt from punishment
4) to be free, be exempt from obligation
c) (Piel)
1) to hold innocent, acquit
2) to leave unpunished
And yet that is the very thing Christ's Death alone, of Himself did for those He died for. They are free from guilt and punishment of their sins because of the sacrifice of Christ Per Heb 1:3
3 Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high:
Again purged our sins meaning :
a cleansing from the guilt of sins wrought by the expiatory sacrifice of Christ
Now all this was in line with what God said to Moses in Ex 33:19
after Moses asked the LORD to shew him His Glory Ex 33:18-19
18 And he said, I beseech thee, shew me thy glory.
19 And he said, I will make all my goodness pass before thee, and I will proclaim the name of the Lord before thee; and will be gracious to whom I will be gracious, and will shew mercy on whom I will shew mercy.
That Mercy is restricted to those He keeps it for Ex 34:7
7 Keeping [ Guard with fidelity]mercy for thousands, forgiving iniquity and transgression and sin, and that will by no means clear the guilty; visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children, and upon the children's children, unto the third and to the fourth generation.
God that Mercy Keeps out of Covenant Faithfulness to them for Christ's Sake !
Ps 89:1,24,33
I will sing of the mercies of the Lord for ever: with my mouth will I make known thy faithfulness to all generations.
But my faithfulness and my mercy shall be with him: and in my name shall his horn be exalted.
Nevertheless my lovingkindness will I not utterly take from him, nor suffer my faithfulness to fail.
5 And the Lord descended in the cloud, and stood with him there, and proclaimed the name of the Lord.
6 And the Lord passed by before him, and proclaimed, The Lord, The Lord God, merciful and gracious, longsuffering, and abundant in goodness and truth,
7 Keeping mercy for thousands, forgiving iniquity and transgression and sin, and that will by no means clear the guilty; visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children, and upon the children's children, unto the third and to the fourth generation.
This verse here Vs 7 shows hat the LORD did not have mercy to Save all mankind, but only some.
Now God's Mercy in forgiving Iniquity, and Transgression and Sin was provided for in Christ before the World began 1 Pet 1:20
20 Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you,
He was the Surety set up for the Everlasting Covenant Ps 103:10-17
10 He hath not dealt with us after our sins; nor rewarded us according to our iniquities.
11 For as the heaven is high above the earth, so great is his mercy toward them that fear him.
12 As far as the east is from the west, so far hath he removed our transgressions from us.
13 Like as a father pitieth his children, so the Lord pitieth them that fear him.
14 For he knoweth our frame; he remembereth that we are dust.
15 As for man, his days are as grass: as a flower of the field, so he flourisheth.
16 For the wind passeth over it, and it is gone; and the place thereof shall know it no more.
17 But the mercy of the Lord is from everlasting to everlasting upon them that fear him, and his righteousness unto children's children;
These would also be describing the Vessels of Mercy Rom 9:23
And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory,
God's Mercy is exercised towards them Christ died for, because Christ bare their Punishment for their sin and in doing so He purged them of their sins Heb 1:3
Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high:
Now this word purged[katharismos] means, :
a cleansing, purification, a ritual purgation or washing
a) of the washing of the Jews before and after their meals
b) of levitical purification of women after childbirth
c) a cleansing from the guilt of sins wrought by the expiatory sacrifice of Christ
So this corresponds to those God shews Mercy to forgiving sin, transgression and iniquity.
But on the other hand, God does not clear the guilty ! The Guilty are those Christ did not die for. The word clear in Ex 34:7
7 Keeping mercy for thousands, forgiving iniquity and transgression and sin, and that will by no means clear the guilty; visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children, and upon the children's children, unto the third and to the fourth generation.
That word is the Hebrew naqah and means:
to be empty, be clear, be pure, be free, be innocent, be desolate, be cut off
a) (Qal) to be empty, be clean, be pure
b) (Niphal)
1) to be cleaned out, be purged out
2) to be clean, be free from guilt, be innocent
3) to be free, be exempt from punishment
4) to be free, be exempt from obligation
c) (Piel)
1) to hold innocent, acquit
2) to leave unpunished
And yet that is the very thing Christ's Death alone, of Himself did for those He died for. They are free from guilt and punishment of their sins because of the sacrifice of Christ Per Heb 1:3
3 Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high:
Again purged our sins meaning :
a cleansing from the guilt of sins wrought by the expiatory sacrifice of Christ
Now all this was in line with what God said to Moses in Ex 33:19
after Moses asked the LORD to shew him His Glory Ex 33:18-19
18 And he said, I beseech thee, shew me thy glory.
19 And he said, I will make all my goodness pass before thee, and I will proclaim the name of the Lord before thee; and will be gracious to whom I will be gracious, and will shew mercy on whom I will shew mercy.
That Mercy is restricted to those He keeps it for Ex 34:7
7 Keeping [ Guard with fidelity]mercy for thousands, forgiving iniquity and transgression and sin, and that will by no means clear the guilty; visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children, and upon the children's children, unto the third and to the fourth generation.
God that Mercy Keeps out of Covenant Faithfulness to them for Christ's Sake !
Ps 89:1,24,33
I will sing of the mercies of the Lord for ever: with my mouth will I make known thy faithfulness to all generations.
But my faithfulness and my mercy shall be with him: and in my name shall his horn be exalted.
Nevertheless my lovingkindness will I not utterly take from him, nor suffer my faithfulness to fail.
Christian Liberty
Well-known member
I agree with the OP.
beloved57
Well-known member
That's good !
beloved57
Well-known member
1 Thess 5:9-10
1 Thess 5:9-10
9 For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,
10 Who died for us, that, whether we wake or sleep, we should live together with him.
The Lord Jesus Christ died for those whom God the Father did not appoint to wrath, but instead, that they [whom He died for] should obtain Salvation through Their Lord Jesus Christ.
Note, those whom should obtain Salvation instead of Wrath, are the ones Paul said He died for Vs 10.
They are also these of Rom 5:9
9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood or death, we shall be saved from wrath through him.
Of course thats the same wrath spoken of in 1 Thess 5:9 that they were not appointed to, and for whom Christ died in Vs 10.
They are also the ones referred to here Matt 1:21
21 And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name Jesus: for he shall save his people from their sins.
None whom Christ died for were appointed to wrath, and shall never be under His Wrath, not in this world, or the Next, Thanks to Jesus Christ who died for them !
1 Thess 5:9-10
9 For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,
10 Who died for us, that, whether we wake or sleep, we should live together with him.
The Lord Jesus Christ died for those whom God the Father did not appoint to wrath, but instead, that they [whom He died for] should obtain Salvation through Their Lord Jesus Christ.
Note, those whom should obtain Salvation instead of Wrath, are the ones Paul said He died for Vs 10.
They are also these of Rom 5:9
9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood or death, we shall be saved from wrath through him.
Of course thats the same wrath spoken of in 1 Thess 5:9 that they were not appointed to, and for whom Christ died in Vs 10.
They are also the ones referred to here Matt 1:21
21 And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name Jesus: for he shall save his people from their sins.
None whom Christ died for were appointed to wrath, and shall never be under His Wrath, not in this world, or the Next, Thanks to Jesus Christ who died for them !
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False Prophet
New member
Whosoever shall believe shall receive.
whosoever believeth on him should not perish, but have eternal life. Jn 3:16
whosoever believeth on him should not perish, but have eternal life. Jn 3:16
oatmeal
Well-known member
Read it
beloved57
Well-known member
Ok, I have no quarrels with Jn 3:16 !
No, but you interpret it wrong (eisegesis) vs exegesis. World is all unregenerate men, not the elite elect (TULIP).