Darwinian evolution however rather suggests that we are evolved beings and that having certain evolved moral values is rather more useful and productive for us as social creatures than mindlessly killing each other. Even having spiritual beliefs themselves are perhaps simply evolved traits, since humans everywhere seem to have their own particular versions of them. There is afaic no reason at all to think that our human moral values are simply random and arbitrary, that is simply not how evolution works. There is otoh imo every reason for religions to try to claim morality in the name of their particular god(s) as something absolute and not innate, relative and evolved.
Um....no. If you are an evolved combination of minerals and water, so are rocks. If you are an evolved piece of crud, you are still a piece of crud. For me, your philosophy of life stinks and seems to be making a huge stink in society too. I know you are trying to distance from that, but most often he who smelt it hadn't dealt it. That guy is holding his nose because he knows (nose) better.
I can assure you Lon that inanimate non-living things have no capacity at all to evolve by means of natural selection.
The value of a person is imo not to be found in the constituent parts (crud) but in what is a highly complex and evolved being capable of self awareness and empathy. You perhaps don’t like Darwinian evolution because it explains life today without having to include God or a supernatural, sorry about that. Darwin didn’t like that part much either btw, but when reality and evidence comes a’calling some people are simply compelled to notice, while others it seems do their utmost to ignore it in favour of what they want to believe.
Moral values along with sexual preferences are to a large extent, built-in evolved innate traits afaic, despite what I, you or religions might prefer was true.
Perhaps Lon if you were slightly more interested in what actually is true rather than what you might prefer to be true then you may understand me better.
Here is why this will never happen: 1) You are completely and ignorantly convinced I am wrong and 2) I feel exactly the same if with even more conviction, that you aren't as intelligent or wise as I am. Such disdain has no cause-ways. I know that God exists, you need to learn that God exists and that's the end on my side of this conversation.
:think:Case in point:
How specifically do you “know” God exists Lon?
I have no absolute certainty that you are wrong and don’t claim to have any special knowledge, even if you think you do. However based on there being no specific “God” evidence that I have recognised then I do think that in all probability you are in fact totally wrong.
I have no doubt at all that the Bible does indeed contain much that is fictitious or allegorical perhaps. In fact it would be hard to imagine that such a book did not, but I don’t think I ever refer to it all dismissively as a “piece of fiction”, please point out where if I have.
Why exactly am I not allowed to question what it says, why must it be exempt from my scrutiny, will it not stand up to scrutiny?
I am not a general pain on atheist boards. I don't like jack-hammer work. That's someone else' forte~. I don't have the patience of working at something so hard all day and getting nothing but blisters. I love that there are people on TOL that love this kind of work. I don't like it because I don't know how soft or hard to be in such an exchange. The only thing I can do is throw down the hammer that says "I know God exists and you don't" and hope that the spike in the road will cause a crack that an earthquake can eventually break through. Most of you guys are so hard and obtuse I wonder that you even dwell on these sites.
I’m sorry if you are a delicate flower and only want to agree with fellow Christians for comfort and don’t want to confront such things as real evidence and reasoning, while it seems that bald assertion is all you have, oh well, life is tough sometimes.
I really don’t think that anyone is killed in the name of something that isn’t believed in Lon. Wars are fought over doctrine whether it be religious, communist or fascist doctrine, despite what you may want to suggest here, there have never been wars fought simply in the name of “atheism” at least, why would there be?
I think you naive, here.
Then by all means please do enlighten me.
Telling me to grow up and be more meaningful is just patronising Lon it isn’t an argument. This forum is about theology which, unless in ECT perhaps, is about religious beliefs in general. Should there be no discussion about why such beliefs exist at all, only specific doctrinal issues?
I agree. If you know why then I've not kept it hidden.
I don’t quite know what you are agreeing with here.
I am cynical that I accomplish much with atheists. Some rocks are harder than others and I'm not much of a blue-collar unless we were talking outside of the intellectual community (I can swing a pick and jack-hammer but I'm not crazy about them). Jesus told His disciples to shake dust from towns where people wouldn't listen. I don't want to prematurely shake but such requires assessment along the way and so I look for something worthy of time spent on any particular effort. You are a hard rock, my friend.
No I'm no rock, I too am a delicate flower:jessilu:who doesn’t really know what you’re on about here either.
I generally don’t tend to use atheist forums much because I only end up agreeing with people, which can actually be rather boring.
Perhaps my being here is making it hard for you and your beliefs, should I leave?
