Definitely not southeast

Re: Is more than 30,000 OK?

Re: Is more than 30,000 OK?

Originally posted by ThePhy

From One Eyed Jack:How about 113%? Go to this site where you can order a Christian Encyclopedia detailing 33,800 Christian denominations.

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Well, it appears my numbers are out of date... the Christians have been multiplying again! :chuckle:

It's a real deal, OEJ, only $295 on Amazon... :thumb:

It's nice to see Christians know how to make money on their research too!

And Jack moves the goalposts...again!

And Jack moves the goalposts...again!

Originally posted by One Eyed Jack
I'll have to see it to believe it. I wouldn't be surprised if it counts Jehova's Witnesses, Mormons, Universalists, and even Moonies as Christian denominations.

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Oh, well why didn't you specify that you wanted a list of Real Christian™ denominations?

If that's the case, the only Real Christians™ are those who believe exactly as you do...

IIRC, you're non-denominational/non-liturgical, right?

I'm not wasting my money on that nonsense.

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Funny, I say the same thing when people refer me to books about miracles and other such foofaraw... :chuckle:

Re: Re: Is more than 30,000 OK?

Re: Re: Is more than 30,000 OK?

Originally posted by One Eyed Jack
I'll have to see it to believe it. I wouldn't be surprised if it counts Jehova's Witnesses, Mormons, Universalists, and even Moonies as Christian denominations.

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"Oh well, they're not Real Christians™...

Why don't you order it? Then you can use it to prove your claim.

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The mere existence of the book edited by professors at Regent University and Trinity Evangelical Divinity School already proves our point.

If you're so intent on proving us wrong, why not put your money where your mouth is, Jack?

You Christians are all worship the same deity as far as atheists are concerned, one created in your own imagination...

Originally posted by Poly
People distorting it is no excuse for man to throw it all out.

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Why not? That very logic is used by Christians as justification for condemning Roman Catholicism or Lutheranism, or any one of hundreds of other groups.

Smart ones like you should be able to see past the twisting of it by men to fit their personal gain, right?

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That's odd, I thought Satan was the one who tried to tempt men by appealing to their intellectual pride... :think:

Re: And Jack moves the goalposts...again!

Re: And Jack moves the goalposts...again!

Originally posted by Gerald

Oh, well why didn't you specify that you wanted a list of Real Christian™ denominations?

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That should go without saying.

If that's the case, the only Real Christians™ are those who believe exactly as you do...

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That's not true. Many Christians believe differently than I do.

IIRC, you're non/denominational-non/liturgical, right?

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No, I'm a Baptist. I just don't go to church.

Re: Re: And Jack moves the goalposts...again!

Re: Re: And Jack moves the goalposts...again!

Originally posted by One Eyed Jack
That's not true. Many Christians believe differently than I do.

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If they believe differently, how do you know they're Real Christians™?

I'm a Baptist.

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That explains a lot.:chuckle:

Originally posted by Zakath

If I change that to "kowtow" and "pseudo-Christian", may I use the quote (with attribution, of course)?

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Sure. Sorry, I never could spell, and I'm too lazy to write my posts in a program that spell-checks for me, before posting them here. *smile*

Re: Re: Re: And Jack moves the goalposts...again!

Re: Re: Re: And Jack moves the goalposts...again!

Originally posted by Gerald

If they believe differently, how do you know they're Real Christians™?

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If someone accepts the essentials of the Christian faith, then I believe that person is a Christian. They may not believe as I do concerning other matters, but I never said they had to.

That explains a lot.:chuckle:

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What does that explain?

Originally posted by Zakath

If I change that to "kowtow" and "pseudo-Christian", may I use the quote (with attribution, of course)?

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Don't be taking over my job, Z (as a spell-checker, that is)!

Originally posted by PureX

Sure. Sorry, I never could spell, and I'm too lazy to write my posts in a program that spell-checks for me, before posting them here. *smile*

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I understand completely. It happens to me frequently. :freak:

Originally posted by wholearmor

Don't be taking over my job, Z (as a spell-checker, that is)!

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No worrys abot thet! :chuckle:

Re: Re: Re: Re: And Jack moves the goalposts...again!

Re: Re: Re: Re: And Jack moves the goalposts...again!

Originally posted by One Eyed Jack
If someone accepts the essentials of the Christian faith, then I believe that person is a Christian. They may not believe as I do concerning other matters, but I never said they had to.

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But their salvation could be riding on those "other matters" as well. Can you in good conscience cut them that much slack?

Frankly, what constitutes a Real Christian™ is in the eye of the beholder.

What does that explain?

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A private joke, pay it no mind. :chuckle:

Where I'm originally from (southwest Alabama), "Baptist" tended to be a synonym for "abyssmally ignorant"...

As for your not going to church, do you conduct "prayer meetings" at your home or some such?

OEJ only wants evidence until he gets it

OEJ only wants evidence until he gets it

When One Eyed Jack said:

I'd like to see a list of 30,000 different Christian denominations. Actually, I'd settle for a list of 300. I want to see if the people that keep saying this can support just 1% of their claim.

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ThePhy responded with:

How about 113%? Go to this site where you can order a Christian Encyclopedia detailing 33,800 Christian denominations.

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One Eyed Jack said:

I'll have to see it to believe it. I wouldn't be surprised if it counts Jehova's Witnesses, Mormons, Universalists, and even Moonies as Christian denominations.

I have a better idea. Why don't you order it? Then you can use it to prove your claim.

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First, it wasn’t my claim. I thought the number 30,000 was a bit high, so I was surprised to find the Encyclopedia’s claims. On the other extreme, I knew that documenting 300 would be trivial. Prior to coming across the site I referenced, I had already located several others that detailed more than your requested 300.

Your recommendation that I buy the encyclopedia is a classical tactic of evasion. It is much easier to refuse to look at evidence so you can continue to mindlessly pooh-pooh an idea than to do the legwork of really checking it out. That is a tactic that is masterfully wielded by Mr. Enyart to gloss over the nonsense in many of his diatribes.

I do not intend to buy the book, since I could care less if the real number is 300 or 30,000. I am sure that even if you did buy the book, you could define Christianity to be exactly in conformance with your personal beliefs, so maybe you could eliminate 33,500 of the non-conforming sects, and get back under your 300 mark. If you define the criteria tightly enough, you could end up with just one (or none) variant of Christianity that you would accept as truly "Christian".

Re: OEJ only wants evidence until he gets it

Re: OEJ only wants evidence until he gets it

Originally posted by ThePhy
First, it wasn’t my claim. I thought the number 30,000 was a bit high, so I was surprised to find the Encyclopedia’s claims.

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The encyclopedia details Christian denominations worldwide. Zakath claimed there are 30,000+ Christian denominations in America -- that averages 600 different denominations per state (with no repeats). As of yet, nobody has provided any support for this claim.

On the other extreme, I knew that documenting 300 would be trivial. Prior to coming across the site I referenced, I had already located several others that detailed more than your requested 300.

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Why didn't you just post a link to one of these sites?

Your recommendation that I buy the encyclopedia is a classical tactic of evasion.

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You suggested I buy it. I just turned your proposal back on you.

I do not intend to buy the book, since I could care less if the real number is 300 or 30,000.

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I don't intend on buying it either. On the other hand, if the library has it, I might check it out.

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: And Jack moves the goalposts...again!

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: And Jack moves the goalposts...again!

Originally posted by Gerald

But their salvation could be riding on those "other matters" as well. Can you in good conscience cut them that much slack?

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On non-essential matters? Sure.

Frankly, what constitutes a Real Christian™ is in the eye of the beholder.

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The Bible is pretty clear on what constitutes a real Christian.

A private joke, pay it no mind. :chuckle:

Where I'm originally from (southwest Alabama), "Baptist" tended to be a synonym for "abyssmally ignorant"...

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About what?

As for your not going to church, do you conduct "prayer meetings" at your home or some such?

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No.

Re: Re: OEJ only wants evidence until he gets it

Re: Re: OEJ only wants evidence until he gets it

Originally posted by One Eyed Jack

The encyclopedia details Christian denominations worldwide. Zakath claimed there are 30,000+ Christian denominations in America -- that averages 600 different denominations per state (with no repeats). As of yet, nobody has provided any support for this claim.

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No, I did not. You are reading into my post. Take a look at my post. Did I use the word "denomination" or did you read what you wanted to read... :think:

The words denomination and sect mean two very different things. That's why I use the word sect, not denomination.

If you live in a city or large town, think about the number of churches in your area and you will see that there are many more sects than denominations in Christianity, or indeed any of the world religions.

denomination

\De*nom`i*na"tion\, n. [L. denominatio metonymy: cf. F. d['e]nomination a naming.]

1. The act of naming or designating.

2. That by which anything is denominated or styled; an epithet; a name, designation, or title; especially, a general name indicating a class of like individuals; a category; as, the denomination of units, or of thousands, or of fourths, or of shillings, or of tons.

Those [qualities] which are classed under the denomination of sublime. --Burke.

3. A class, or society of individuals, called by the same name; a sect; as, a denomination of Christians.

Syn: Name; appellation; title. See Name.


Source: Webster's Revised Unabridged Dictionary, © 1996, 1998 MICRA, Inc.

Ah, let's play "duelling dictionaries"...

1. sect
2. A group of people forming a distinct unit within a larger group by virtue of certain refinements or distinctions of belief or practice.
3. A religious body, especially one that has separated from a larger denomination.
4. A faction united by common interests or beliefs.

1. denonmination
2. A large group of religious congregations united under a common faith and name and organized under a single administrative and legal hierarchy.

Source: The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition Copyright © 2000 by Houghton Mifflin Company.


It appears you were using the term "denomination" as synonomous with "sect". I was not. To me a sect is a subdivision or an offshoot of a larger religious group. For example, the local Southern Baptist Convention member church down the street is part of a denomination. The First Baptist Church of Podunk (unaffiliated) is an example of a sect.

Thus there are a few hundred denominations, but tens of thousands of sects. Many sects are made up of fewer than ten churches while denominations usually consist of hundreds or thousands of affiliated churches and have some sort of administrative control relationship with their member churches.

I hope that clarifies my comment.

Biblical blinders

Biblical blinders

From One Eyed Jack:

The Bible is pretty clear on what constitutes a real Christian.

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It may be clear to you, and it is equally clear to thousands of other Christian denominations that your interpretation of what constitutes a real Christian is flawed, else you would agree with them. You use the Bible as the defining document, yet it is the diverse understandings of that Bible that has been a major factor in causing the divisions of Christianity. The threads in these forums attest to the fact that there are deep-rooted differences in what people say the Bible teaches. Care to show what makes your understanding the right one, and the thousands of others wrong?

Man! You guys find new directions to go faster than a drunk on a unicycle