toldailytopic: Is it always wrong to kill another human?

RevTestament

RevTestament

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Is it always wrong to kill another human?
NO - self defense, accident, required by law etc
Yes - if for our own selfish purposes or extreme negligence
 
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PureX

PureX

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bybee said:
It is also, in today's methodology, a copout!
Blame anyone and anything except the perpetrator!
That ALSO is not rocket science!
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The issue of the thread isn't who blames who for what. The issue is whether killing a human being is wrong or not. One argument is that it's not wrong if you think it's not wrong. My argument would be that it's ALWAYS wrong because we human beings don't have the right or the authority to decide who deserves to live and who does not.
 
Lighthouse

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Uberpod1 said:
Honestly, who has more in common with a serial killer: Purex or all of you who whole heartedly support the death penalty?
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You are a fool of great magnitude.

Uberpod1 said:
You have inadvertantly hit upon something valuable. Child abuse and the death penalty do go hand in hand. If one is abused as a child and does not acknowledge the treatment as abuse, one is very likely to strongly support the death penalty.
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If one is sexually abused as a minor and does not acknowledge it as abuse they are very likely to be a faggot.
 
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bybee

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PureX said:
The issue of the thread isn't who blames who for what. The issue is whether killing a human being is wrong or not. One argument is that it's not wrong if you think it's not wrong. My argument would be that it's ALWAYS wrong because we human beings don't have the right or the authority to decide who deserves to live and who does not.
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We do have the right to defend ourselves and the innocent and the vulnerable. We delegate authority to those who must punish criminals for offenses against society.
 
PureX

PureX

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bybee said:
We do have the right to defend ourselves and the innocent and the vulnerable.
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I agree with this. And I might even be persuaded that to kill in defense of ourselves or others makes the killing not our 'choice' (and therefor not our 'act'). It would be a re-action that was forced upon us by the attacker, and therefor the attacker's death would not be our doing.

BUT, this would not change the fact that killing another human being is always wrong. Because we would simply be shifting the 'act' back onto the perpetrator, and away from the respondent, even though in this case it would be the respondent who ends the life of the perpetrator.

It smells a bit of sophistry, but I suppose it's a logically valid argument. And I could concede to this reasoning.
 
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PureX said:
I agree with this. And I might even be persuaded that to kill in defense of ourselves or others makes the killing not our 'choice' (and therefor not our 'act'). It would be a re-action that was forced upon us by the attacker, and therefor the attacker's death would not be our doing.

BUT, this would not change the fact that killing another human being is always wrong. Because we would simply be shifting the 'act' back onto the perpetrator, and away from the respondent, even though in this case it would be the respondent who ends the life of the perpetrator.

It smells a bit of sophistry, but I suppose it's a logically valid argument. And I could concede to this reasoning.
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You have just, in a very convoluted way, described suicide.


How do you feel about allowing/disallowing people to commit suicide?
 
Uberpod1

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bybee said:
The words "...one is very likely..." covers almost any statement one wishes to make as proof of anything one might wish to prove.
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So sorry that the complexity of the world can not be adequately described by primative absolutes.
 
Uberpod1

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resurrected said:
cite?
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There is plenty of evidence that authoritarian parenting influences views on capital punishment. You may google that. Add the violence of spanking and hitting in the mix and we can see how intense support for the death penalty is ginned up. I will link the research in support of this when it becomes availible. Cutting edge stuff you know.
 
Angel4Truth

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PureX said:
Not really. It's called social psychology.

Children who grow up experiencing violence tend to grow up to be violent adults. And so they also tend to justify violence as a socially acceptable solution to criminal behavior. It's not exactly rocket science.
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Not always or even part of the time imo, i grew up just fine. I am not a violent person and would not be unless some criminal broke into my home and tried to rape me or my kids or tried to harm any of us, then i would smile while i blew their frigging head off which is what they were asking for imo when they came into my home without my permission.

Its not exactly rocket science, because a person who will not take care of their family is worse than a non believer.
 
Uberpod1

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Angel4Truth said:
then i would smile while i blew their frigging head off which is what they were asking for imo when they came into my home without my permission.
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Someone asked that I quote someone here demonstrating sadism. Here ya go.

See Bybee for an example of a nonsadistic emotional reaction to self-defense violence.
 
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Angel4Truth

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Uberpod1 said:
Someone asked that I quote someone here demonstrating sadism. Here ya go.

See Byee be for an example of a nonsadistic emotional reaction to self-defense violence.
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Yes, i am a total sadist for gladly blowing away a criminal who wants to do worse to me.

Please tell me youre joking.

If not then are you one of those hippies who blame all crime on poverty and thing we should all be the same so no ones self esteem suffers for their lack of wanting to better themselves?

See that handsome young man in my signature? A thug or 2 with a most likely illegal gun shot him to death while he was driving home from work, right on the freeway.

Tell me again i am a sadist because i would be happy to blow their head off like they did his - only they did it for nothing, i would be doing it for justice.
 
Uberpod1

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Angel4Truth said:
Yes, i am a total sadist for gladly blowing away a criminal who wants to do worse to me.
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You demonstrate sadism when you savor the action and even more so because you savor the contemplation of a hypothetical version of it. You demonstrate a lesser version of what the criminals themselves act upon. Congrats.

Please tell me youre joking.
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Its sad, not funny.

If not then are you one of those hippies who blame all crime on poverty and thing we should all be the same so no ones self esteem suffers for their lack of wanting to better themselves?
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No, I believe criminals deserve consequences and are responsible for their own behavior just like you are responsible to contain your sadistic streak. It's scary that you do not even acknowledge it. That puts you at a higher risk of acting on it.

See that handsome young man in my signature? A thug or 2 with a most likely illegal gun shot him to death while he was driving home from work, right on the freeway.
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Sorry - to hear that. He was precious.

Sadistic revenge fantasies are pretty common after such a loss.

Tell me again i am a sadist because i would be happy to blow their head off like they did his - only they did it for nothing, i would be doing it for justice.
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I would have the same impulse after the violent loss of a loved one. It is sadistic plain and simple. Certainly understandable. I would like it if society's laws helped me to contain such feelings rather than whip up the blood lust with the possibility of the death penalty.
 
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sa·dism
/ˈsāˌdizəm/Noun
1.The tendency to derive pleasure, esp. sexual gratification, from inflicting pain, suffering, or humiliation on others.
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Ubie - it appears that you are trying to humiliate A4T by forcing upon him a definition that he rejects.


Aren't you demonstrating sadism?
 
Uberpod1

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sa·dism
/ˈsāˌdizəm/Noun
1.The tendency to derive pleasure, esp. sexual gratification, from inflicting pain, suffering, or humiliation on others.
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resurrected said:
Ubie - it appears that you are trying to humiliate A4T by forcing upon him a definition that he rejects.


Aren't you demonstrating sadism?
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I am using the definition appropriately. Especially sexual gratification does not mean only sexual gratification.

I don't savor the pain my opponents feel when I make a biting point with them, I savor their enlightenment.
 
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Uberpod1 said:
I don't savor the pain my opponents feel when I make a biting point with them, I savor their enlightenment.
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Have you considered that A4T and others whom you are trying to "enlighten" don't derive pleasure from the pain, suffering or humiliation of those who meet their just ends, but from the notion of justice served?
 
Uberpod1

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resurrected said:
Have you considered that A4T and others whom you are trying to "enlighten" don't derive pleasure from the pain, suffering or humiliation of those who meet their just ends, but from the notion of justice served?
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The imagery of heads blown off brings to mind pain and humiliation not justice. I don't doubt justice is a concomitant motive.
 
steko

steko

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resurrected said:
Have you considered that A4T and others whom you are trying to "enlighten" don't derive pleasure from the pain, suffering or humiliation of those who meet their just ends, but from the notion of justice served?
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Well stated!
 
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