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    Over 500 post club Mustard Seed's Avatar
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    Interesting stuff

    At about the time our original 13 states adopted their new constitution in 1787, a Scottish history professor by the name of Professor Alexander Tyler had this to say about "The Fall of the Athenian Republic" over 2,000 years previous to that date.

    The Fall of the Athenian Republic.

    "A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse (generous gifts) from the public treasury.

    "From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury, with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, [which is] always followed by a dictatorship.

    "The average age of the world's greatest civilizations has been two hundred years. These nations have progressed through this sequence:

    - From bondage to spiritual faith;
    - From spiritual faith to great courage;
    - From courage to liberty;
    - From liberty to abundance;
    - From abundance to complacency;
    - From complacency to apathy;
    - From apathy to dependence;
    - From dependence back into bondage."

    Professor Joseph Olson of Hamline University School of Law, St.Paul, Minnesota, wrote this about the 2000 election:

    - Population of counties won by Gore 127 million, won by Bush 143 million. - Sq.miles of country won by Gore 580,000, won by Bush 2,427,000. - States won by Gore 19, by Bush 29.



    - Murder per 100,000 residents in counties won by Gore 13.2 by Bush 2.1 (not a typo).

    Professor Olson adds, "The map of the territory Bush won was (mostly) the land owned by the people of this great country. Not the citizens living in cities owned by the government and living off the government....

    Professor Olson thinks the US is now between the complacency to apathy phase of democracy although he believes that 40 percent of the nation's population has already reached the dependency phase.

    Just something a friend e-mailed me. Thought it was interesting. Thoughts? Questions? Snide remarks?


    _
    "For a man to be great, he must not dwell on small things, though he may enjoy them."

    Thy mind, O Man, if thou wilt lead a soul unto salvation must stretch as high as the utmost heaven, and search into and contemplate the darkest abyss. Thou must commune with God.

    --Joseph Smith Jr.

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    "A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse (generous gifts) from the public treasury.


    I thought it was DeToqueville.

    The Wife and I have decided that we would rather live in a dangerous city than a safe corn field.

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    Over 500 post club aharvey's Avatar
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    Re: Interesting stuff

    Originally posted by Mustard Seed

    Just something a friend e-mailed me. Thought it was interesting. Thoughts? Questions? Snide remarks?


    _
    Just one, concerning "Professor Olson adds, 'The map of the territory Bush won was (mostly) the land owned by the people of this great country. Not the citizens living in cities owned by the government and living off the government....' "
    Check out what fraction of land area is actually owned by the federal government in those big, wide open western red states. And check out how much federal money is unapologetically accepted by the farmers and ranchers in those red states (what are they called, "subsidies"?).

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    Over 500 post club Mustard Seed's Avatar
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    Re: Re: Interesting stuff

    Originally posted by aharvey

    Just one, concerning "Professor Olson adds, 'The map of the territory Bush won was (mostly) the land owned by the people of this great country. Not the citizens living in cities owned by the government and living off the government....' "
    Check out what fraction of land area is actually owned by the federal government in those big, wide open western red states. And check out how much federal money is unapologetically accepted by the farmers and ranchers in those red states (what are they called, "subsidies"?).
    Gee. You are right. Most of the land in those states IS owned by the federal governement! Is that right? No. Take us in Utah for example--

    We are often critisized harshly for having the lowest or next to lowest per pupil spending in our schools. What's not taken into consideration is the fact that we CAN'T TAX over 70% of our land. I don't know if you realize how much school funds come from property tax revenues but it's pretty high. So not only are we stuck with not being able to use and tax most of our land but we are denegrated by folks like yourself when we demand compensation from the Federal Government to have some means of overcoming the fact that we are in essence colonies of the Federal Government. Trust lands don't do sqwat for compensating the fact that we are not allowed free access to our land. You can moan and complain about our subsidies but lets make you face up to the whole picture. If you want to stop the subsidies then stop allowing things like the Staircase National Monument from occuring. President Clinton knew that he had no prayer in Utah so to look like a good enviromental saint to all the zealot treehugers he tries to lock away something like 10% of all the land in Utah. It's a bunch of bunk for you to go to the supermarket (or wherever you go) and enjoy the blessings of the least expensive most diverse food market in the world and spend one or two vacations of your life in some National Park of National Forest in the west and then complain about the subsidies that are given. I'm not saying the systems perfect. I personaly detest the fact that there are more government regulators in Agriculture than there are farmers. I don't think ADM should get massive subsidies from the government, but neither do I think subsidies should be dumped into massive metropolitan transportation projects or especial if those metropolitan cities don't think the subsidies going to states that actually deserve them should be going there. If you want to stop the subsidies then treat us like an eastern state and let us tax the 70% of the west that's owned by the federal governement so that we'll have sufficient money in our coffers to fund public education etc..

    Of course then again the states that spend the most on education tend to get the least out of their education systems. Of course, per tax payer, Utah has the highest, or one of the highest, percentages of income going to education through taxes.
    "For a man to be great, he must not dwell on small things, though he may enjoy them."

    Thy mind, O Man, if thou wilt lead a soul unto salvation must stretch as high as the utmost heaven, and search into and contemplate the darkest abyss. Thou must commune with God.

    --Joseph Smith Jr.

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