Creation vs. Evolution

CatholicCrusader said:

MichaelCadry said:

Creation vs. Evolution

Click to expand...

This is a false dichotomy.

There is "Evolution", and then there is "Evolution out of Nothing."

It is possible to believe that God created everything out of nothing, created man in his own image, and still accept certain elements of Evolution.

However, when some people say "Evolution" they really mean "Evolution out of Nothing", which means there is no God and everything came to be in some other way. THAT is what must be rejected by Christians, obviously.

It is important to differentiate between the two.

Click to expand...

In Sacred Scripture, God speaks to man in a human way. To interpret Scripture correctly, the reader must be attentive to what the human authors truly wanted to affirm, and to what God wanted to reveal to us by their words. In order to discover the sacred authors' intention, the reader must take into account the conditions of their time and culture, the literary genres in use at that time, and the modes of feeling, speaking and narrating then current.

The fact is, Genisis 1 is meant to teach one thing and one thing only: That God created everything out of nothing, that he created man in his own image, that man seperated himself from God through disobedience, and that God immediately set about the long - or at least it seems long to us - process of healing that rift, a process which culminated with the death and resurrection of Christ. That is ALL it teaches.

Everything in Genesis is meant to convey that truth, but it is done in the ancient Semitic style of writing, using allegories, fantastic imagery, and all based on traditions that were handed down for centuries. I do not believe there was a serpent, or a tree, or a garden, etc. These are all images & allegories, in a certain style of writing, meant to convey the fundamental truth I stated above.

Now, do not misunderstand me: I am NOT saying that the Genesis account is not true, or that it is mere metaphore. The Genesis acccount IS true, but the truth it is conveying is as I said above.

MichaelCadry said:

All of you mostly atheists think that since there are more of you on this thread, you will prevail. I guarantee you will not prevail, but God and Jesus SHALL Prevail. I just know Him better than any of you evidently. And you just pick on illusionray because he's possibly not as well-armed as I am. I, and my guardian angels, beat you all off with a stick, a Cross if you will. Illusionray is smarter than the lot of you naysayers and you will wish you never voiced any opinion on this thread, thinking you are more than God is or His Son, the Messiah. You'll get your proof, but I won't laugh as you go down in flames, but will instead feel sorry for you, sap that I am.

You Reap What You Sow!!
Remember That.

MichaelCadry

Click to expand...

All that need happen Michael is that your claimed angels or just one comes to me in the near future, as they did for you, right now if possible, and I will be convinced, promise, why can't that happen?

MichaelCadry said:

All of you mostly atheists think that since there are more of you on this thread, you will prevail.......

Click to expand...

Atheists are hypocrites. They always demand proof of God from believers, but when pressed, every one of them will admit that they can't offer a shred of proof that there is no God. They demand from us what they themselves cannot offer up. Pure hypocrisy.

CatholicCrusader said:

Atheists are hypocrites. They always demand proof of God from believers, but when pressed, every one of them will admit that they can't offer a shred of proof that there is no God. They demand from us what they themselves cannot offer up. Pure hypocrisy.

Click to expand...

Nonsense, most atheists including myself have no certainty about the non-existence of gods nor claim to know. Religions otoh make the positive claims about gods but then refuse to support them empirically, that is the real hypocrisy going on here. lain:

CatholicCrusader said:

Atheists are hypocrites. They always demand proof of God from believers, but when pressed, every one of them will admit that they can't offer a shred of proof that there is no God. They demand from us what they themselves cannot offer up. Pure hypocrisy.

Click to expand...

I don't know about the others, but in my case atheism is the absence of a belief in Gods. I believe that everything about the world and its events can be better explained, modelled and predicted using methodological naturalism rather than a God hypothesis than seem to make no reliable predictions at all.

By 'not a shred of proof', don't you really mean 'no conclusive proof'?

There are plenty of indicative 'shreds' of evidence, such as the steady retreat of God explanations from anything that has been thoroughly investigated by scientists. As science grows, the god-hypothesis seems to shrink in its explanatory power (just see the YEC threads).

The trend is clear, even if the end-game is unproven.

gcthomas said:

You should leave out the unnecessary insults you throw about, then.

(And you seemed to miss the cultural reference of his "How sad ...". Your loss. Perhaps with age and experience you will understand more)

Click to expand...

...and you seemed to miss the implied sarcasm

MichaelCadry said:

Dear Alwight,

You aren't smart enough to spot that you ARE a Troll!! Go figure. I'm usually not this unkind and it does not behoove me, but you are all so mean, it seems.
I'm not going to let you get to me and will continue to be kind.

In Christ's Love,

Michael

Click to expand...

That's a fair assessment. We both know the alleged atheist is in no condition for a reasoned debate, rather he is here for no other purpose except to resort to name-calling whenever he fails to concoct an argument worth striking the keyboard for. From experience though, Atheists don't usually resort to that type of behaviour -_-

MichaelCadry said:

I see that illusionray is the only one making sense here so far. So God's axe will fall upon not one individual, but instead Alwight, Jukia, hedshaker, noguru and gcthomas! How'd we manage to get so many bloodsucking mosquitoes around here that fast??!

Michael Cadry

Click to expand...

Right, it is so easy to claim God is againt those you are opposing. Especially when you lack the ability to make any sort of reasoned argument for yourself. This is typical behavior for cowards like you.

MichaelCadry said:

Alwight,

I saw a science show on a couple years ago which showed there was a layer of earth that proved there had been a global flood, so I suppose you have just missed watching it.

MichaelCadry

Click to expand...

Ah, a science show on TV. Gotta be 100% accurate. Can you tell us which one it was so that we can all be as smart as you are.

In the meantime, Michael, why don't you just take your meds.

Jukia said:

Ah, a science show on TV. Gotta be 100% accurate. Can you tell us which one it was so that we can all be as smart as you are.

Click to expand...

:rotfl:

You can't get blood from a stone.

MichaelCadry said:

Dear gcthomas,

Your clip failed to be funny. It seems more inane than anything, like why would any person with a brain want to watch it?? I couldn't even finish watching it, it was so dumb. I see where you get your taste.

The only reason all of you are ganging up on illusionray is to pick on him instead of me. I'm not dumb!! I do hope that illusionray believes in Christ as the Messiah. He shall go farther than the lot of you all.

You Wanted The Truth,
More To Come,

MichaelC

Click to expand...

No you are wrong. No one is ganging up on delusionray. When a person contnuously spouts absurdities he/she will get called out on that. This is a good thing and it is not personal. It is due to your strategy of dialogue.

noguru said:

Especially when you lack the ability to make any sort of reasoned argument for yourself. This is typical behavior for cowards like you.

Click to expand...

And this is coming from...you?!



Irony much?

CatholicCrusader said:

Atheists are hypocrites. They always demand proof of God from believers, but when pressed, every one of them will admit that they can't offer a shred of proof that there is no God. They demand from us what they themselves cannot offer up. Pure hypocrisy.

Click to expand...

alwight said:

Nonsense, most atheists including myself have no certainty about the non-existence of gods nor claim to know..........

Click to expand...

Then you're not an atheist, you're an agnostic.

What a pinhead.

illusionray said:

And this is coming from...you?!

Irony much?

Click to expand...

How have I been a coward? You and Michael are cowards because you resort to shallow unsupported diversions when pressed on your claims. Where have I done this?

CatholicCrusader said:

Then you're not an atheist, you're an agnostic.

What a pinhead.

Click to expand...

I was agnostic from the age of 12 until 29. I considered myself to be bordering on atheism, because I do agree that atheism is a statement of certainty in regard to "no God(s) existing". Back then I would seldom go that far in my disbelief, but at times I felt there was no God(s).

MichaelCadry said:

Dear hedshaker,

Just because you think you are physically fit doesn't mean you are spiritually fit. Yes, you will bow down upon His return. And yes, an angel said He shall return again in the same way as He left. You can beat your drum all you want and it is not going to 'scare' Jesus or God away! We will see how you coast to shore with science instead of God leading you.

God Help You,
Yes, You Do!

MichaelCadry

Click to expand...

You know what. This is as pointless as talking to a brick wall. You must be having trouble understanding written English or something because no one could be this dense, could they?

I do not believe in you god and I do not believe in angels and I absolutly do not believe for one millisecond any of your bald assertions Geddit? Read slowly if it helps: I DON'T BELIEVE A WORD OF IT. How many times in how many ways have I got to say it before it sinks in?

Now I've asked you nice but now I'm telling you. Take your spiteful threats and shove then where the sun don't shine. I will never give up reality to become like you. I value my sanity too much.

Are you like this in normal life? Have you noticed rooms emptying when you enter? Do they allow sharp things around you?

If you wish to address my posts, drop the sermons and the threats and the preaching and the platitudes.

In short. Give it a rest.

noguru said:

How have I been a coward? You and Michael are cowards because you resort to shallow unsupported diversions when pressed on your claims. Where have I done this?

Click to expand...

Wow. More irony...just what I needed (!) -_-

illusionray said:

Wow. More irony...just what I needed (!) -_-

Click to expand...

I asked you to support your claim about me. It is apparent that you are incapable of supporting any of your claims. Are you going to throw out more academic credentials, you coward?

More bluster will get you nowhere. It is clear to any perceptive observer and God what you are actually doing here. No matter how much you might want to hide that.

noguru said:

I do agree that atheism is a statement of certainty in regard to "no God(s) existing".

Click to expand...

No it isn't, that's sheer ignorance. Atheism is a lack of belief.

illusionray said:

No it isn't, that's sheer ignorance. Atheism is a lack of belief.

Click to expand...

Take that up with Catholic Crusader. I now agree with you on this subject. I was talking about how I use to see it.

You took that statement out of context, and I probably should have said "did" as opposed to "do".