Quote:
Originally Posted by aCultureWarrior
If the law wasn't a deterrent, then dope dealers would be standing on the corner of a busy intersection with a sign "Get your drug fix here!", and of course drug users would be using their escape from reality out in the open as well, instead of back alleys and dope dens.
Does it deter dealers from dealing? If drugs were decriminalized or legalized, they won't be given a permit to sell on street corners.
Does the law deter rapists from raping or murderers from murdering? (It's been shown that decriminalizing murder, i.e. abortion, increases the amount of murders each year). Of course the law is a deterrent, but not to all. But as long as swift and just punishment is administered it will continue to serve as a good deterrent to criminal activity, which drug use is.
"Crime, violence and drug use go hand in hand":
http://www.justice.gov/dea/demand/speakout/07so.htm
If recreational drugs were legalized, then there would still be dope peddlers. Remember we'd be dealing with people who are outcasts of a society and don't like dealing with agencies like the FDA that would tell them what drugs they can and can't use. New drugs come out regularly and would still be sold on the black market.
Quote:
Originally Posted by aCultureWarrior
I see that you didn't want to compare marijuana to alcohol in another post, are you comparing cigarette smoking to pot in this one?
Depends on the comparison. A woman forgetting her baby on top of a car because she is high is comparable to a drunk man who straps his kids to a car for a quick run to the liquor store.
But you can imbibe in alcohol and drive safely and legally without endangering others. Remember Ralphie, the misuse of alcohol leads to intoxication, the use of recreational drugs leads to intoxication (they're intended for you to get hiiiigh).
Cigarettes are comparable to marijuana as both are plants that are smoked, although marijuana lacks the additives put into cigarettes.
Depends on the context of the comparison. As it should.
Bob Enyart made some excellent points in one of his articles on marijuana use:
"Long-term cigarette smoking is bad for your lungs but unlike for pot, there are not millions of people who believe that tobacco makes you intoxicated, lowers your IQ, and makes you slow and stupid. But why the difference? These millions haven't weighed conflicting scientific studies (including those showing learning and memory impairments from using pot). Rather, they've seen the results first hand. While studies conflict, many confirm what millions have perceived -- that routine pot use leads to serious mental health issues. On the other hand, a nightly glass of red wine has the opposite reputation, of not making anyone slow or stupid, but of sustaining health and even decreasing the likelihood of dementia.
Many studies show serious problems, for example, with schizoid psychosis while smoking. And marijuana can act as a cancer-causing carcinogen and damaging DNA for pot smoke contains higher levels of certain toxins than tobacco, which is why pot smokers face rapid lung destruction, with the impact on lungs from one joint equaling up to five cigarettes. Pot also opens the door for the virus that causes Kaposi's Sarcoma. And for pregnant moms, it can harm their unborn child by impairing growth and by causing long-lasting neurobehavioural problems. (And if you've read online that marijuana has never caused a single death, just assume you're reading a pothead's website.) For habitual use is strongly associated with car crash injuries and smoking marijuana doubles the risk of fatal accidents."
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/bob-enyart/why-marijuana-should-be-i_b_1340311.html
Quote:
Originally Posted by aCultureWarrior
Back to the deterrent factor. Is it more of a deterrent not to use drugs if you know you're going to be punished for it, or if you know that you could end up in some plush rehab facility if you get addicted to it?
Rehab gets results. Prison doesn't. Locking an addict in prison isn't justice. Sending them to rehab is.
For those that really want to be helped. But remember Ralphie, for many junkies, their first and only "love" is the needle or the dope pipe.
"Drug treatment courts are working. Researchers estimate that more than 50 percent of defendants convicted of drug possession will return to criminal behavior within two to three years. Those who graduate from drug treatment courts have far lower rates of recidivism, ranging from 2 to 20 percent. That’s very impressive when you consider that; for addicts who enter a treatment program voluntarily, 80 to 90 percent leave by the end of the first year. Among such dropouts, relapse within a year is generally the rule.
What makes drug treatment courts so different? Graduates are held accountable for sticking with the program. Unlike other, purely voluntary treatment programs, the addict—who has a physical need for drugs—can’t simply quit treatment whenever he or she feels like it.
Law enforcement plays an important role in the drug treatment court program. It is especially important in the beginning of the process because it often triggers treatment for people who need it. Most people do not volunteer for drug treatment. It is more often an outside motivator, like an arrest, that gets —and keeps— people in treatment. And it is important for judges to keep people in incarceration if treatment fails.
There are already more than 123,000 people who use heroin at least once a month, and 1.7 million who use cocaine at least once a month. For them, treatment is the answer. But for most Americans, particularly the young, the solution lies in prevention, which in turn is largely a matter of education and enforcement, which aims at keeping drug pushers away from children and teenagers."
http://www.justice.gov/dea/demand/speakout/02so.htm
Legalization would make the government "the Pusherman" Ralphie, not the institution that God ordained "to do good".
Quote:
Originally Posted by aCultureWarrior
While I know that Libertarians like you don't deal with the realities of life Ralphie, but misery, crime, disease and death are a big part of the recreational drug lifestyle.
I agree that misery, crime, disease and death are central to prison life. The reality is that rehab rehabilitates addicts while prison does not.
Punishment was never meant to be enjoyable Ralphie. Libertarians aren't familiar with reality, in fact their life is built upon theories.
Quote:
Originally Posted by aCultureWarrior
Many people are not aware of the big difference between decriminalization and legalization, i.e. decriminalization isn't
"Legalize it and tax it" (remember saying those words Ralphie?).
Legalize and tax medical marijuana. If a state wants to legalize marijuana they should have that right. If a state wants to outlaw bath salts or meth, let them. There should be no federal mandate.
There will be victims along the way to a Libertarian's perverted defintion of liberty.
Quote:
Originally Posted by aCultureWarrior
I know that the memory of a dope smoker is equivalent to that of a gnat's, but the OP of this thread dealt with abortion as well.
It goes without saying (well, I am dealing with a Libertarian here, so I better say it) that sexual inhibitions lower when using drugs. Hence promiscuity and eventually abortion.
Libertarians such as yourself want to "compartmentalise" sins, not being aware (or publically acknowledging) that sin has no boundaries.
Nice soapbox rant. Not discussing Portugal anymore I see....
We both know why that is.
I did more research on the Portugal lie. Being that I know that a junkie is a junkie whether he lives in Seattle, Madison or Lisbon, I also know that poison is poison whether it's taken in Seattle, Madison or Lisbon.
http://www.samefacts.com/2010/10/dr...on-in-portugal-saved-lives-and-killed-people/
Decriminalization of drugs in Portugal – The real facts!
http://www.wfad.se/latest-news/1-articles/123-decriminalization-of-drugs-in-portugal--the-real-facts
Here's some information about those "progressive" European countries (Canada as well) who experimented with drug legalization.
It appears things don't work out in real life like they do in a Libertarian playbook.
"Fiction: Drug Legalization Works
Fact: Tolerant drug policies in other countries have led to higher drug abuse rates and negative social consequences."
http://www.justthinktwice.com/factsfiction/fiction_drug_legalization_works.html
Quote:
Originally Posted by aCultureWarrior
You didn't answer my question Ralphie:
What was the last time you read about a person driving off leaving their baby on the roof of their car because they were smoking a cigarette?
Marijuana is inherently mind altering. Alcohol is if abused, cigarettes never.
Again. The story is DUI. You cannot be arrested for driving under the influence of cigarettes. DUI is the problem, DUI with children involved more specifically. Even if marijuana were outright legal, you would never be able to drive legally under the influence. Same goes for alcohol or even legally prescribed drugs.
In other words, your above comparison is just plain stupid and shows that you've missed the entire point about DUI.
No Ralphie, the story is about being intoxicated and not having your faculties while high on a recreational drug. As shown, legalizing (i.e. promoting) recreational drug use will only increase the amount of people that destory their lives and others.
In closing, you're to drug pushing what Arthur Brain is to sodomy (I'll give Arthur credit, while he is a homosexualist, unlike you he doesn't push both drugs and homosexuality).
The only way to cure people like you and Arthur is for you to accept God and His word into your lives.
Until that happens to all homosexualists and dopertarians, the force of law must be used to keep drug pushers and sexual deviants "underneath the rock whence they came."
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