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Thread: can anyone please give me proof that Jesus Christ is real?

  1. #46
    Your powers are weak, old man. Knight's Avatar
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    Originally posted by Aimiel
    Of course it does, it is the foundation. We take Him at His Word, and trust that He is True, though every man who ever lived (except, of course, Jesus) might have been a liar.
    OK... well I guess I misunderstood your earlier point.
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    Originally posted by Clete Pfeiffer

    If I told you that I got a visit in the spirit from Jesus Himself and He told me that by His sovereign right, He has decided to change the rules so that now everything about the gospel is the same except that from now on, no one will be saved except on every third Thursday of the month and only after 7:03pm local time.

    How would you know I was lying?
    The same way I refuted your other 'points' in this thread, The Word of God, which doesn't change, and will abide forever: He said that He watches over His Word to perform it, and that whosoever believes in Him shall be saved, not whosoever believes upon certain days ONLY. Also, I would suggest that you need to exercise better discernment, because the spirit that spoke to you was an evil spirit, pretending to be The Lord.
    "Surely the Lord GOD will do nothing, but he revealeth his secret unto his servants the prophets." -- Amos 3:7

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    Clete--your post #13: I am sorry about your not understanding straight Bible doctrine, Clete. I know it must be difficult to always be running into verses which do not fit in with your misconceptions of Scripture; nevertheless you can't make those troublesome verses disappear. It is forever established in heaven that "no one knows the Son except the Father. Nor does anyone know the Father except the Son, and the one to whom the Son wills to reveal Him." Mt.11:27

    There are many other texts which teach the same thing both in the Old Testament and the New Testament, but I know it would be fruitless to spend more time with you. People of the "openess" persuasion are notorious for ignoring verses. They are content to hold a view of scripture which leaves many texts in tension with one another. We Reformed people find that unacceptable. Thanks for calling me a heretic. I would not want to be identified with your doctrines.
    "For of Him and through Him and to Him are all things, to whom be glory forever. Amen" Romans 11:36

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    Amen Rolf.
    "Surely the Lord GOD will do nothing, but he revealeth his secret unto his servants the prophets." -- Amos 3:7

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    Originally posted by Rolf Ernst

    Clete--your post #13: I am sorry about your not understanding straight Bible doctrine, Clete. I know it must be difficult to always be running into verses which do not fit in with your misconceptions of Scripture; nevertheless you can't make those troublesome verses disappear. It is forever established in heaven that "no one knows the Son except the Father. Nor does anyone know the Father except the Son, and the one to whom the Son wills to reveal Him." Mt.11:27

    There are many other texts which teach the same thing both in the Old Testament and the New Testament, but I know it would be fruitless to spend more time with you. People of the "openess" persuasion are notorious for ignoring verses. They are content to hold a view of scripture which leaves many texts in tension with one another. We Reformed people find that unacceptable. Thanks for calling me a heretic. I would not want to be identified with your doctrines.
    Both you and Aimiel have no business on a board where serious discussions of theology take place. You are not only both intellectually dishonest and incapable of reading but are also a straight up liar.

    The only reason to react this way to what I said is because you know you have no hope in defeating me in an honest debate. Further, I have never, nor will I ever intentionally ignore any Scripture nor do you have any evidence to the contrary, you are a liar and a hypocrite. For it is you who profane God with your disgusting theology that makes God the author of evil, and more than that you are proud of it! While, all the while burying your head in the sand and ignoring verse after verse after verse that shows the contrary.

    Further still, I never called you a heretic. I was very careful to word my post in such a way as to encourage you to clarify yourself but you apparently can't read well enough to have detected that. I said IF and THEN and posted 2 possibilities. I of course can assume which you chose but that is beside the point. If you were half a man you would simply have answered the question and defended your position. As it is, you have proven yourself to be a small minded child that should spend more time in Sunday School class being read to about Noah’s ark and watching Veggi Tale cartoons.
    If you decide to grow up and act your age, I'd still be interested to know whether you think any such person exists that Jesus does not want to reveal himself to? And why you would not consider the Bible itself as His having revealed Himself to everyone, or at least to everyone who can either read or be read to?

    And Aimiel, what the hell are you doing agreeing with Rolf when you don't even believe that the Bible is the standard of truth? What would you care if I ignored Bible verses or not? Shouldn't I follow the leading of the Spirit within? As far as you are concerned if it feels right it is right. That makes me want to puke!

    Resting in Him,
    Last edited by Turbo; August 13th, 2004 at 03:29 PM.
    "The [open view] is an attempt to provide a more Biblically faithful, rationally coherent, and practically satisfying account of God and the divine-human relationship..." - Dr. John Sanders

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    Your powers are weak, old man. Knight's Avatar
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    Friendly Neighborhood Admin Turbo's Avatar
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    Originally posted by firechyld

    The Egyptians have no record of anything even vaguely resembling the Exodus. *shrug* Make of that what you will...
    I take it you've never heard of the Ipuwer papyrus. Even the unbeliever who wrote the preface on the page linked cannot deny the similarities between this Egyptian account and the Exodus account:
    Fringe historians often compare the content of this papyrus with Exodus, the second book of the Bible. Similarities between Egyptian texts and the Bible are easily found, and it is reasonable to assume Egyptian influence on the Hebrews, given their at times close contacts. But to conclude from such parallelisms that the Ipuwer Papyrus describes Egypt at the time of the Exodus, requires a leap of faith not everybody is willing to make.
    I submit that this author is the one making a great leap of faith.




    Comparing the two accounts:
    The Ten Plagues - Live From Egypt
    Last edited by Turbo; August 13th, 2004 at 03:47 PM.

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    Journeyman add yasaf's Avatar
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    c. moore you can look here for quotes from secular authors - http://www.myfortress.org/historians.html


    and also get the book - a Biblical History of Israel, found here - http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg...37750?v=glance

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    Originally posted by Turbo

    I take it you've never heard of the Ipuwer papyrus. Even the unbeliever who wrote the preface on the page linked cannot deny the similarities between this Egyptian account and the Exodus account:
    Before I read this document, I want an answer to the following. Do you judge this papyrus as similar to the Exodus by the same standard Christians use when they deny similarities between Christian beliefs and those of other religions of the time, and the same standard by which they deny similarities between the tale of Noah and the Epic of Gilgamesh? IOW, are you using a double standard in claiming this papyrus as evidence for the Exodus?
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    Originally posted by Knight

    Suits him, doesn't it?

    Maybe it was predestined! :bannana:

    wait a minute......

    predestined?

    .......

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    Can anyone please give me proof that Jesus Christ is real?

    Originally posted by Crow

    Suits him, doesn't it?

    Maybe it was predestined! :bannana:

    wait a minute......

    predestined?

    .......



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    Over 750 post club c.moore's Avatar
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    firechyld

    In short... no, there is no empirical evidence of the existence of a historical Jesus. It cannot (at this time) be proven that the man ever lived, much less performed the deeds credited to him.

    That said, there is also not enough evidence or even lack thereof to definitely state that the historical Jesus didn't exist. At this point in time, the jury is still out, and will remain out until such time as proof for either stance is discovered.



    Quote :

    So I guess my question is answer , the unbelievers, and mythology teacher has a greater range of evidence that Jesus never existed, and can be a fairy tale or just made up from other pagan religion and pre ancient time story`s which was never true including the story of Adam and Eve.
    www.revivaldisco.com

    Proverb:3:13: Happy is the man that findeth wisdom, and the man that getteth understanding.

    1Co:2:10: But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.
    1Co:2:11: For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.

    Proverb:12:15: The way of a fool is right in his own eyes: but he that hearkeneth unto counsel is wise.
    Proverb:12:16: A fool's wrath is presently known: but a prudent man covereth shame.
    Proverb:12:17: He that speaketh truth sheweth forth righteousness: but a false witness deceit.
    Evangelist c.moore

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    Friendly Neighborhood Admin Turbo's Avatar
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    Originally posted by c.moore

    So I guess my question is answer , the unbelievers, and mythology teacher has a greater range of evidence that Jesus never existed, and can be a fairy tale or just made up from other pagan religion and pre ancient time story`s which was never true including the story of Adam and Eve.
    Why are you ignoring the evidence presented on this thread? Just because firechyld says there is no evidence doesn't make it so.

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    c.moore

    A way of looking at the whole thing is similar to what the title of one of the books that was mentioned in this thread implies (I don't exactly remeber the title off hand but it has something to do with demanding an answer/verdict) I've mentioned something on the same not in one of my recent threads. If Jesus Christ and his story, or the Bible in general, were not real then there's a TON of explaining to be done for the impact etc. I likened it to an example given by Hugh Nibley in one of his books. He talks about the recent controversy over William Shakespear and how many are questioning his legitimacy as the author of all those works. Now whether it was one man that wrote those plays sonnets etc or if it was a group of men it was still an INCREDIBLE WORK. Essentially if it was miraculous and unbelievable for him to have fashioned those works then what makes it any less unbelievable that a seceret society of intellects that lived in the same area did it? Either scenerio you have to deal with that which was produced. Regardless of the source of the Bible or it's stories those who call it merely a fabel have so much explaining to do that it may actually complicate, and render harder to explain, the existance of the Bible or the history of Jesus Christ.
    "For a man to be great, he must not dwell on small things, though he may enjoy them."

    Thy mind, O Man, if thou wilt lead a soul unto salvation must stretch as high as the utmost heaven, and search into and contemplate the darkest abyss. Thou must commune with God.

    --Joseph Smith Jr.

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    Over 750 post club c.moore's Avatar
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    So the facts is still there is no real logical or historical proof out side the bible??
    www.revivaldisco.com

    Proverb:3:13: Happy is the man that findeth wisdom, and the man that getteth understanding.

    1Co:2:10: But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.
    1Co:2:11: For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.

    Proverb:12:15: The way of a fool is right in his own eyes: but he that hearkeneth unto counsel is wise.
    Proverb:12:16: A fool's wrath is presently known: but a prudent man covereth shame.
    Proverb:12:17: He that speaketh truth sheweth forth righteousness: but a false witness deceit.
    Evangelist c.moore

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