Thanks. And you're a paragon of Christian love. We're going for irony here, right?
I love you enough to tell you the truth.
The analogy doesn't work, so I reject it.
I never compared your child to a watch, though. I remarked how a maker doesn't make broken things and is not responsible when they break.
Then I compared God's reaction to us to our reactions to our children.
Different comparisons.
But your analogy doesn't work in terms of the exact principles that you're trying to illustrate. If God is like a watchmaker, then he's responsible for the watch. In any kind of engineering, if the product is not adequate, the engineer is at fault, not the product. So I'd say God is not much like a watchmaker.
No analogy works in terms of the exact principles being illustrated.
The point of the analogy is that when people use things for which they are not intended it is not the fault of the maker when they break.
No. You don't build a child. You conceive a child. A child is a result of biological processes that you don't have much control over.
But you take part in it, and it is your biology that is involved, unless you adopt.
Except that he supposedly killed almost everyone on the planet. And that still wasn't enough. So the satisfaction seems to have worn off.
Being satisfied with the finished creation does not equate to being satisfied to the broken creation after the fact.
You really take the "creation" out of "creationist".
He designed His creation to propagate itself.
Yep. Did it once. However, I'm sure that however I describe it, you'll find something to object to about it, to justify your belief that I couldn't possibly have converted and then walked away from it.
I had to accept the "free" gift of her knowledge. And if I hadn't simply accepted it, she would have pronounced me condemned. :AMR:
You're a moron.
She showed you it was the case and you believed, not through any action or simple acceptance, but because you saw it. You converted from ignorance of the fact to knowledge of its truth. That is a conversion.
One does not convert by choice. Neither is it by force. They know the truth and it makes them free.
In every way.
One of them is by definition true in the case of God. He designed us knowing we would disobey. We either designed us to 'naturally' sway that way or did it deliberately. To have it so that all offspring by Adam and Eve born 'broken' is a direct endorsement of the outdated and immoral ancestral guilt and curses people at birth for the actions of their predecessors.
No, it's not. God did not know. The Bible makes that clear. Adam and Eve fell and as a result all descendants are in their image. God didn't set that up to happen, as He did not know Adam and Eve would fall.
Then God is incompetent and you are in a minority. Most Christians contend that God is omniscient.
He is omniscient. But the Bible is clear that the future does not currently exist and therefore is not an object of knowledge.
It depends on your mileage regarding God whether or not you think a mistake was made. I'm speaking hypothetically of course, but all accounts of our redemption appear to me each and every time to be absurd and immoral.
So you don't have one? I should have known.
No. I'd rather not be told that I must be punished for eternity simply for saying Non Serviam or for not resolving my wretched state at birth through accepting vicarious redemption. That is a gross parody of punishment and justice and cannot be defended.
Who said anything about punishment? We all suffer the consequences of our decisions and choices, whether good or bad; you can't change that.
God resolved the issue already; you don't have to.
Now look, I don't sit here and insist I know the private thoughts of your mind. I don't make analysis of what you really think and insist that you are secretly in denial, or secretly think this. I would appreciate it if you did the same for me and took my at my word. After all, I am me. You are you. You therefore have no say whatsoever in what I think. Understood?
I know what God says, and I trust Him more than I trust you.
That out of the way, your proposition is completely absurd. You think that all Muslims all secretly believe in vicarious redemption and pretend to accept Islam? Are you completely divorced from reality?
I never said anyone was pretending anything. I said they know the truth and they deny it. Mostly to themselves. And they are convinced, on the surface. And they reject their consciences telling them what they know deep down because they are arrogant.
How am I lying to myself, sir? I despise the concept of vicarious redemption whether it is true or false and whether I believe it or not. For the record, I happen to not believe it as true and so am not lying to myself.
You despise things that aren't true, yes. But you also despise the truth of the matter. And that is why you lie to yourself. But you know, and just refuse to accept it.
