toldailytopic: Professional athletes who credit God for helping them win.
- Thread starter Nathon Detroit
- Start date
Agreed. I wouldn't credit God with a miraculous victory by one team/individual or another in a sporting event. I do agree with crediting Him for granting the ability to manage such a thing ourselves, though.
Example, since some around here are having trouble understanding the difference:
If I go into my backyard and decide to move a tree stump uglyin' up the place back there...and I'm successful in doing this thing that not everyone can do...then I thank God for the drive to keep myself in good physical shape, able to go root up tree stumps by hand. I don't credit Him the decision to move the tree stump or for actually removing the thing...but I recognize I wouldn't be able to do it if not for Him. I'd be fat, lazy and weak, and a ridiculous tree stump would have victory over me. I'm very glad that's not the case, as it may be for some, so I thank Him very much for that.
Similarly, if I try to do complex algorithms in my head and fail...which is pretty much how one can expect that to go...I might well pray that God grant me, or even teach me, that ability if it were something I needed. I'd still expect to have to do the work behind that but I recognize I couldn't do it without Him.
Buzzword
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I like it when athletes give God credit, especially fighters.
While some may find it contradictory to give God credit after blasting another man in the face with fist or knee, or choking him to near-unconsciousness, I find it refreshing given all the braggadocio most athletes spend their time spouting.
As for "divine intervention," most of the guys I've heard give God credit do so not for their victory per se, but for the qualities which they have been blessed with which helped CAUSE the victory (physical ability, natural talent, work ethic, etc.).
While some may find it contradictory to give God credit after blasting another man in the face with fist or knee, or choking him to near-unconsciousness, I find it refreshing given all the braggadocio most athletes spend their time spouting.
As for "divine intervention," most of the guys I've heard give God credit do so not for their victory per se, but for the qualities which they have been blessed with which helped CAUSE the victory (physical ability, natural talent, work ethic, etc.).
Silent Hunter
Well-known member
What part of the answer do you not understand?
I'm being entirely consistent. Both "good" and "bad" MUST occur without your deity's intervention for free-will to remain intact . . . there is no "his will".
:liberals:
You are quick to credit the "good" that men do by free-will to your deity. One fails to understand why are you so resistant to credit the "bad" that men do by free-will to your deity.
To be clear, you disagree with crediting to God our ability to...well, do anything in particular? Is there anything that human beings do, or you in particular, that you're thankful to God for?
Silent Hunter
Well-known member
It is interesting that you fail to see the contradictions in your statements here.
HisServant
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In a round about way, this question reminds me of the banned Family Guy episode "When I wish upon a Jew".
Peter realizes that he is horrible with money and decides he needs a Jew to help him with his finances. Then he thinks that the only way his son will be smart is if he becomes a Jew.
So if being a christian makes someone a better athlete or protects someone from injury.. maybe becoming a christian will give me better athletic abilities.
Is that the kind of witness we want to show to the world as Christians?
Peter realizes that he is horrible with money and decides he needs a Jew to help him with his finances. Then he thinks that the only way his son will be smart is if he becomes a Jew.
So if being a christian makes someone a better athlete or protects someone from injury.. maybe becoming a christian will give me better athletic abilities.
Is that the kind of witness we want to show to the world as Christians?
That's not a very productive way to answer "Please explain".
Great. So let's not credit to God the things that we decide to do. I can agree with that.
I think the point you're either missing or not acknowledging is that we accept that God is the source of righteousness (i.e. "good) and that all that is contrary to His will is sin. That, without Him, we can only act contrary to His will, contrary to what is good. I didn't realize I had to make that point. My bad.
On that basis, can we credit to Him the playing field on which we choose to do good things? Can we, for example, thank Him for the brains we use to make good decisions and the bodies we use to carry out good things?
Poly
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I like the way you put this. I was actually going to submit what my thoughts on this have always been, which is that I've always kind of thought it was a little silly to think that an athlete would give God credit for the score they just made as if God chose and micro managed the outcome just so that particular score would be made.
But, if one were doing it because they were in appreciation of their health and physical ability to do so due to their love of God being their "every day" physical and mental strength, I think I could handle that.
HisServant
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:think: LOL.
Silent Hunter
Well-known member
Apparently so Nick . . . apparently so.
What, that God didn't grant me the ability to do complex algorithms in my head? I think it's interesting that you're distracted from my point by the opportunity for something to begrudge Him. He didn't have to grant me the ability to do anything at all, you know.
I would hope not. It would be rather self-serving to say the least.
:think: Okay, this is obviously what the thread is about. Since I agree that's false and I don't see anyone arguing for it, guess I'm done here.
Silent Hunter
Well-known member
If you cannot recognize the contradictions in this post then no amount of explaining on my part will clarify.
Key word here is "decide" . . . another difficulty arises in a later post.
Good point . . . if we were discussing "sin".
. . . as long as the "playing field" is equal for all participants. If "he" gives one person an unfair advantage "he" has negated free-will.
Why? ANY intervention on the part of your deity negates free-will.
The Berean
Well-known member
Isn't God "interested" in everything that goes on in the world? He is in fact, GOD, no?
Silent Hunter
Well-known member
That you don't recognize that ANY intervention on the part of your deity (such as giving you a "better" brain than someone else because you "asked" for one or because "he" decided to give you one beyond what you "received" through genetics) negates free-will.
If you cannot understand the contradiction no amount of explanation on my part will clarify.
HisServant
New member
Yes, he is God. He is interested in those that he has called (his ekklesia).
Beyond that, God has left man to his own devices... i.e. he is not a puppet master.
So... I guess you are the kind of kid who blamed your parents when you crashed your bicycle. :chuckle: