Which is a false dichotomy.
toldailytopic: Should Christians involve themselves in politics?
- Thread starter Nathon Detroit
- Start date
BabyChristian
New member
:dead:
Yes we should enjoy the way our country is being ruined with sin?
No one said Paul was a politician. Where did you get that idea that someone typed that? He still had his opinions, everyone has them and why should Christians be silent?
In the O.T. during the time of the Judges they were ordained and certain others were ordained.. We don't live in those days and now we vote for the people that are messing up this country as Obama is so ridiculously doing.
We are to have opinions of right and wrong and try to right the wrongs by being political.
We are in this world for a while whether we like it or not.
Since you claim to be a Pinko Commie you're more than welcome to live an apolitical life.
22 years of age? No wonder. I keep saying this age thing because you haven't got a clue.
Buzzword
New member
How so?
Are any of the methods of community involvement I mentioned related to politics?
Cracked
New member
The world view informs the whole person--every action taken is governed, normally, to a certain extent by what one believes. Thus, you cannot separate religion from politics.
However, when you ask if Christians should involved themselves in politics what comes to mind is a similar question: should Christians seek power? I do not think so.
In fact, it seems to me that the best leaders are the ones who do not want power to begin with, were constantly aware of its corrupting influence, or at least have lived at the bottom for a time before they receive it. Cyrus the Great, for example, or even someone like George Washington. Not everyone is corrupted by power (e.g., Joseph), but look at even David and especially Solomon.
"At that time the disciples came to Jesus and asked, 'Who, then, is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven?'"
"He called a little child to him, and placed the child among them. And he said: 'Truly I tell you, unless you change and become like little children, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven. Therefore, whoever takes the lowly position of this child is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven. And whoever welcomes one such child in my name welcomes me."
Humility and servant leadership--this is what truly changes the world, one heart at a time.
However, when you ask if Christians should involved themselves in politics what comes to mind is a similar question: should Christians seek power? I do not think so.
In fact, it seems to me that the best leaders are the ones who do not want power to begin with, were constantly aware of its corrupting influence, or at least have lived at the bottom for a time before they receive it. Cyrus the Great, for example, or even someone like George Washington. Not everyone is corrupted by power (e.g., Joseph), but look at even David and especially Solomon.
"At that time the disciples came to Jesus and asked, 'Who, then, is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven?'"
"He called a little child to him, and placed the child among them. And he said: 'Truly I tell you, unless you change and become like little children, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven. Therefore, whoever takes the lowly position of this child is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven. And whoever welcomes one such child in my name welcomes me."
Humility and servant leadership--this is what truly changes the world, one heart at a time.
HisServant
New member
Yes.. with our vote, but we should take the early churches example of barring church members from holding political office.
Krsto
Well-known member
So we can participate in choosing our own leaders but we must not be one of those leaders. We must choose between the lesser of two evils in all levels of government from city hall to the White House. We can choose people to represent us but they must not be like us in having the same faith, world view, and moral standards.
Yeah, that makes a lot of sense.
Krsto
Well-known member
Wouldn't a humble servant/leader make the best legislators too?
Krsto
Well-known member
The kingdom of heaven is like the woman who puts the leaven of the Gospel and all that Jesus taught into the lump of the world until the whole lump was leavened. That is a picture of total infiltration and transformation of all of society at all levels. No part of that lump of dough is to be excluded and left to the devil.
If you are not on that program you are not on God's program. Brethren, come join our Lord in this great work of increasing the our Lord's government.
I'm not talking statism here, btw.
The false dichotomy is:
Systems are corrupt only to the extent the people within them are corrupt. One does not inherit corruption by adhering to a system. Otherwise one could certainly refer to churches as corrupt systems since they involve politics to some degree or other.Buzzword said:
I do see what point you are making and I agree to some extent but I think if the line gets blurred too much it can cause confusion.
You are simply speaking about what our current system is, not what it must be. And being involved in politics doesn't mean you have to fall for all the rhetoric.
What do you mean by the Church being tied to the state? I don't think we're anywhere near the things you mention. Not anymore anyway.
Well, some might. I wouldn't paint with too broad of a brush with that. Again, I think most of it comes down to how the aid is given out. Government organizations with poor oversight do make it easier to abuse the system which is why many Christians prefer the help to be given through private or religious organizations that are closer to the community.
I think it is dishonest to define "Christian" as someone who has the behavior and beliefs you think are right. So no, I don't want to play semantics.
You can't really vote and keep views private so no I'm not suggesting that. And I don't debate politics much. Mostly on TOL or with friends and family. It's not really a work appropriate thing and I'm not in school anymore.
I do think that some people should avoid politics because of the divisiveness and what it can do to their emotions and attitude. There is some extreme vitriol against the other side at times. I don't think that should be turned into a blanket condemnation against Christians voting.
No. But I'm not sure what that has to do with whether a Christian should vote. Voting isn't preaching to a congregation on politics.
Now, if you consider just discussing politics and trying to persuade someone to a particular position to be "preaching", I would say that is being too loose with it. I don't want a preacher using the pulpit to advance a particular political viewpoint but in private discussion I don't mind getting into political matters.
Only if you define "devotion to Christian priorities" as using ALL your time on that. Do you do anything that isn't related to Christianity? Do you watch TV? Sports? Movies? Play sports? Exercise? Just kick back and relax with friends? Do anything that isn't for the Lord?
Never said it was.
I agree and wouldn't suggest you vote unless you are educated. I believe poor education of voters is part of the problem with our system.
Yep. Education is good. Then people can decide.
You can say that about anything that isn't "Christian". Yet I'm sure you do many things that aren't directly Christian priorities. Especially in this technological age, it doesn't take an exorbitant amount of time to stay up with the news.
See above. Your insistence that making politics a priority will necessarily take away from Christian work is not convincing to me.
I'm not completely sure what you mean by the two seeping into each other.
What do you say if someone asks you about a political topic? Do you politely refrain? Or do you get into discussion?
Politics, what the government does, is something that affects everyone. Since you say Christians shouldn't vote, I assume you just believe that Christians have to accept whatever they do? Come what may? In the New Testament times when the political system was so different I can understand the viewpoint that Christians should be separate and stay out of it, but with a democracy when the people can vote and make their voices heard, I don't see why Christians have to stay out of it. Not that there aren't concerns, many of which you have presented.
I'm interested in how you think government should run. If Christians can't be involved in politics, but Christians are called to evangelize, then the more people are converted, the smaller the pool of potential politicians becomes. If all the US is converted, there can be no government! :freak: :chuckle:
Lon
Well-known member
Sometimes I'm late on these in deference to something more well-thought out and I was mulling over how to make a short but meaningful post (I know it looks long, but its not that bad, honest).
For better or worse, here goes:
When I was fresh out of Bible college, I was offered a job in a hardware store in Alaska.
"Don't do it! Every believer that has worked there has fallen hard!"
I gave it some thought and prayer and decided God was strong enough for the both of us. I worked there about half a year, no problem. Some of my coworkers were a bit seedy, but I found I enjoyed working there and after they got to know me, asked me questions about my faith.
........
Since the time I was young there has been a warning: "Stay away from politics, they will corrupt your witness and your walk."
Christianity has been strongly influenced by puritans with 'hand's off' policy regarding politics as well. It seems the rule-of-thumb for believers is "vote, but don't get otherwise involved."
A similar sentiment: we are in this world, not of it John 15:18-20 and Jesus said He was a king, but not of this world John 18:36.
This is true but He taught us to pray:
"Thy kingdom come, Thy will be done on earth, as it is in heaven.
Paul echos this when he tells us "
I read a pastor's quote in preparation for this post. He said: We should be about His business, and that business is heaven. Whatever we do otherwise is wood hay and stubble (paraphrase).
His intent was to tell us not to get involved in things that do not matter, but do we avoid building houses? Selling groceries? This kind of sentiment doesn't make sense to me because it is clear in Jesus' prayer and Romans, that we pray for His will to be done on earth (that matters!). Adding to this, we are lights on a hill that cannot be hid, not even in congress. We are the salt of the earth.
Because of this, I believe Christians should be involved in politics. I ran across an article by Chuck Colson and he wraps this up so much better than I:
Get involved! Pray! His kingdom come, His will be done on earth!
For better or worse, here goes:
When I was fresh out of Bible college, I was offered a job in a hardware store in Alaska.
"Don't do it! Every believer that has worked there has fallen hard!"
I gave it some thought and prayer and decided God was strong enough for the both of us. I worked there about half a year, no problem. Some of my coworkers were a bit seedy, but I found I enjoyed working there and after they got to know me, asked me questions about my faith.
........
Since the time I was young there has been a warning: "Stay away from politics, they will corrupt your witness and your walk."
Christianity has been strongly influenced by puritans with 'hand's off' policy regarding politics as well. It seems the rule-of-thumb for believers is "vote, but don't get otherwise involved."
A similar sentiment: we are in this world, not of it John 15:18-20 and Jesus said He was a king, but not of this world John 18:36.
This is true but He taught us to pray:
"Thy kingdom come, Thy will be done on earth, as it is in heaven.
Paul echos this when he tells us "
And in Romans 13 he reminds us:
And again in another place he reminds us to pray for those men and women. That's involvement!
I read a pastor's quote in preparation for this post. He said: We should be about His business, and that business is heaven. Whatever we do otherwise is wood hay and stubble (paraphrase).
His intent was to tell us not to get involved in things that do not matter, but do we avoid building houses? Selling groceries? This kind of sentiment doesn't make sense to me because it is clear in Jesus' prayer and Romans, that we pray for His will to be done on earth (that matters!). Adding to this, we are lights on a hill that cannot be hid, not even in congress. We are the salt of the earth.
Because of this, I believe Christians should be involved in politics. I ran across an article by Chuck Colson and he wraps this up so much better than I:
His blessings
Get involved! Pray! His kingdom come, His will be done on earth!
Krsto
Well-known member
After having worked closely with state legislators and with pastors I would say on the whole pastors are more corrupt than state legislators.
Some people may find that hard to believe but on average I have more respect for the state legislators than for the pastors behind the pulpits.
We are citizens, of course we should be involved.