toldailytopic: What do you suppose God thinks of the Catholic Church?

Krsto

Krsto

Well-known member
Cruciform said:
God has always told men what to believe---and he's done so through human agents and agencies. Likewise with Christ's own historic Church (Lk. 10:16; 1 Tim. 3:15). Sorry for your confusion.

Gaudium de veritate,

Cruciform
+T+
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Always, as in, during the Old Covenant. During the New Covenant he has a different method of relaying truth, and you would do well to be a part of that covenant:

Jer. 31:31 - Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:
32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD:
33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.
34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD.

If you want to live in a "covenant" where men tell you what to do then the Catholic Church is just the place for you, but as for me and my house, we shall follow the Lord.
 
H

HisServant

New member
chrysostom said:
I have the highest regard for the Orthodox Church
and
we agree on all important things except of course the pope
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Why do you disagree with the church that the Lord founded then.. the see in Jerusalem where James led for a while?

I guess its much easier to follow Rome.. since they have their churches everywhere and it would take more effort.

Do you ever actually sit down and listen to yourself?
 
chrysostom

chrysostom

Well-known member
Hall of Fame
HisServant said:
Why do you disagree with the church that the Lord founded then.. the see in Jerusalem where James led for a while?

I guess its much easier to follow Rome.. since they have their churches everywhere and it would take more effort.

Do you ever actually sit down and listen to yourself?
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James is not the rock
and
the Church would not have survived in Jerusalem

it did not do so well in Constantinople either
 
H

HisServant

New member
chrysostom said:
James is not the rock
and
the Church would not have survived in Jerusalem

it did not do so well in Constantinople either
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At that should be your first clue...... about whether God called an ekklesia or created an institution.

FYI, the church in Rome only survived due to politics.
 
chrysostom

chrysostom

Well-known member
Hall of Fame
HisServant said:
At that should be your first clue...... about whether God called an ekklesia or created an institution.

FYI, the church in Rome only survived due to politics.
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this was my first clue

Revelation 12:14

King James Version (KJV)

14And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent.
 
H

HisServant

New member
chrysostom said:
this was my first clue

Revelation 12:14

King James Version (KJV)

14And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent.
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Ah.. so you have to take a symbolic verse out of context to support your beliefs..

Lord have mercy on your lost soul.
 
H

HisServant

New member
The Woman Persecuted

13 Now when the dragon saw that he had been cast to the earth, he persecuted ythe woman who gave birth to the male Child. 14 zBut the woman was given two wings of a great eagle, athat she might fly binto the wilderness to her place, where she is nourished cfor a time and times and half a time, from the presence of the serpent. 15 So the serpent dspewed water out of his mouth like a flood after the woman, that he might cause her to be carried away by the flood. 16 But the earth helped the woman, and the earth opened its mouth and swallowed up the flood which the dragon had spewed out of his mouth. 17 And the dragon was enraged with the woman, and he went to make war with the rest of her offspring, who keep the commandments of God and have the testimony of Jesus 3Christ.
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It's an interesting passage... we know the woman cannot be Mary and the Child cannot be Christ.

We can deduce that the woman is most probably Israel.
 
Cruciform

Cruciform

New member
Sum1sGruj said:
What is special about the Church that it somehow interprets better then laymen? Are they endowed with some special sense of the Bible that doesn't avail others?
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QUESTION: Were the apostles "endowed with some special sense of the Bible that didn't avail others"? Why was their teaching authoritative and binding upon believers, while the opinions of individual laymen were not?

'Christ's own historic Church' is poetry.
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I have no idea what this is even supposed to mean.

They couldn't afford a Bible and they were illiterate, and the Church never took advantage of that in any way...
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No, the Church did not. :nono:

...they never tortured anyone and those torture devices are just a big conspiracy...
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Your fundamental ignorance of medieval history allows you to thoughtlessly recite such things, but prevents you from understanding them in their proper historical and cultural context and, thus, with any real meaning attached. Again, much further self-education in these matters is called for on your part. :poly:

And how did they not prolong the Dark Ages?
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If you actually understood the history of the medieval Church, you wouldn't need to ask the question.

It was a time of religious struggle, and the Church was no more innocent then anything else that was going on despite being a supreme authority.
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Even if true, the Church nevertheless remained authoritative in her guidance and teaching. Nothing you've said in any way negates the binding nature of that binding authority.

The Church has vanity written all over it. I see no reason to assume it is mightier then any other branch.
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Of course, this is what your preferred Protestant sectarian anti-Catholic doctrinal tradition has told you, and you've chosen to believe it. As you like.



Gaudium de veritate,

Cruciform
+T+
 
H

HisServant

New member
chrysostom said:
but Israel, Mary, and the Church had to flee in order to survive
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The church never needed to flee. God promised to take care of Jesus' sheep... and he keeps his promises.

If anything, we can view the Church fleeing to Rome as a selfish act of disobedience.

Coincidence once again is not proof enough.
 
Cruciform

Cruciform

New member
serpentdove said:
No...
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Unfortunately, your preferences and opinions simply contradict the authoritative teachings of Christ's historic Church, and so must be rejected as heterodox on that basis.

This is the standard for orthodoxy set forth in the New Testament (Mt. 16:18-19; 28:18-20; Lk. 10:16; 22:32; Ac. 16:4; 1 Cor. 12:28; 2 Cor. 5:20; Eph. 1:22-23; 3:10; 1 Tim. 3:15; Titus 2:15; Heb. 13:17; 1 John 4:6), and Catholics are bound to follow it, rather than the mere preferences and opinions of individual laymen. Sorry for your confusion.



Gaudium de veritate,

Cruciform
+T+
 
Sum1sGruj

Sum1sGruj

BANNED
Banned
Cruciform said:
QUESTION: Were the apostles "endowed with some special sense of the Bible that didn't avail others"? Why was their teaching authoritative and binding upon believers, while the opinions of individual laymen were not?
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Because they were apostles. Paul could cast demons away with his mere shadow. They were actually endowed, you see.

Your fundamental ignorance of medieval history allows you to thoughtlessly recite such things, but prevents you from understanding them in their proper historical and cultural context and, thus, with any real meaning attached. Again, much further self-education in these matters is called for on your part. :poly:
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I don't see how I am being ignorant by observing a simple fact. You are Catholic and feel you must defend the Church, even if it means bending the truth.
 
chrysostom

chrysostom

Well-known member
Hall of Fame
HisServant said:
The church never needed to flee. God promised to take care of Jesus' sheep... and he keeps his promises.

If anything, we can view the Church fleeing to Rome as a selfish act of disobedience.

Coincidence once again is not proof enough.
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so God is not in control?
or
God just won't control

which is it for you?
 
H

HisServant

New member
chrysostom said:
so God is not in control?
or
God just won't control

which is it for you?
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God is in complete control... man just doesnt appreciate his methods and timing of his control so they forsake him and do things on their own while claiming it is his will.

If Rome is the true church, then it forsook God when it moved to Rome.. and God returned the favor.
 
chrysostom

chrysostom

Well-known member
Hall of Fame
HisServant said:
God is in complete control... man just doesnt appreciate his methods and timing of his control so they forsake him and do things on their own while claiming it is his will.

If Rome is the true church, then it forsook God when it moved to Rome.. and God returned the favor.
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that sounds like God is not in control
 
H

HisServant

New member
chrysostom said:
that sounds like God is not in control
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No.. it sounds that God cares not for your 'church'.

He also never promised us safety.. he promised us the exact opposite if we truly followed him. So fleeing from the trials and tribulations appointed to the early church was dishonoring him.
 
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