toldailytopic: The Catholics: what did they get right, and what did they get wrong?

Nihilo

Nihilo

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annabenedetti said:
Are you a practicing Catholic?

Have you received the sacraments of initiation (Baptism, Confirmation, Holy Communion)?

Do you submit to the authority of the Pope as laid out in Vatican Council I?
To him, in blessed Peter, full power has been given by our lord Jesus Christ to tend, rule and govern the universal Church. All this is to be found in the acts of the ecumenical councils and the sacred canons... Both clergy and faithful, of whatever rite and dignity...are bound to submit to this power by the duty of hierarchical subordination and true obedience, and this not only in matters concerning faith and morals, but also in those which regard the discipline and government of the Church throughout the world.​
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Were you crucified, buried, and resurrected with the Lord Jesus Christ yet (Rom 6:3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12; Gal 2:20)? Does the second death have power over you still (Rev 20:6)? Have you received the Holy Spirit yet (Jn 20:22)? Do you yet walk in the Holy Spirit, never fulfilling any of the lusts of your flesh (Gal 5:16), and always experiencing the fruit of the Holy Spirit (Gal 5:22-23)?

Are you there yet?

I am complete in the Lord Jesus Christ (Col 2:9,10) - a complete Catholic. And I did it the hard way, through my home faith, through its hard knocks, through scrupulous adherence to its laws and customs and rituals and traditions; and no, I'm not planning on going through that rope course again. I've run my race. I got there by a different way, externally, and a more difficult way, internally, than Catholics. Catholics are given the hints and tips, a streamlined algorithm, perfected over two thousand years and through two hundred sixty-five Popes. I think I explicitly appreciate what many practicing Catholics have in the Roman Catholic Church and Organization, more than they do, because I know how rocky a path it is for those outside of Her.

This is where the Church wants you to be. Are you there yet?

:)
 
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griffinsavard

New member
zippy2006 said:
No, no, and ....:think: no. :idunno:
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He is right in saying the Catholic Church copied the Roman Hierarchy. The Emporer was considered the 'High Priest'.....

Pontifex Maximus

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Augustus as Pontifex Maximus
(Via Labicana Augustus)The Pontifex Maximus (Latin, literally: "greatest bridge-maker") was the high priest of the College of Pontiffs (Collegium Pontificum) in ancient Rome. This was the most important position in the ancient Roman religion, open only to patricians until 254 BC, when a plebeian first occupied this post. A distinctly religious office under the early Roman Republic, it gradually became politicized until, beginning with Augustus, it was subsumed into the Imperial office. Its last use with reference to the emperors is in inscriptions of Gratian[1] (reigned 375–383) who, however, then decided to omit the words "pontifex maximus" from his title.[2][3]

The word "pontifex" later became a term used for Christian bishops,[4] including the Bishop of Rome,[5] and the title of "Pontifex Maximus" was applied within the Roman Catholic Church to the Pope as its chief bishop. It is not included in the Pope's official titles,[6] but appears on buildings, monuments and coins of popes of Renaissance and modern times.

Anyone who reads a couple historical articles from Wikipedia can see that your Pope assumed the role of Dictator based on Imperial Rome.

Your Pope is just another Cesaer,.....Catholicism loved the world and absorbed its ways. If you deny this its because you want to believe the lie....

:shut:
 
zippy2006

zippy2006

New member
griffinsavard said:
He is right in saying the Catholic Church copied the Roman Hierarchy. The Emporer was considered the 'High Priest'.....
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So was Melchizedek, so was Jesus :AMR:

Hebrews 5:1-9

Hebrews 5:5
So also Christ did not glorify Himself to become High Priest, but it was He who said to Him: “You are My Son, Today I have begotten You.”​

...I guess it's hard not to shoot yourself in the foot when trying to separate Christianity from Christ's Church :idunno:
 
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griffinsavard

New member
Nihilo said:
Were you crucified, buried, and resurrected with the Lord Jesus Christ yet (Rom 6:3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12; Gal 2:20)? Does the second death have power over you still Rev 20:6)? Have you received the Holy Spirit yet (Jn 20:22)? Do you yet walk in the Holy Spirit, never fulfilling any of the lusts of your flesh (Gal 5:16), and always experiencing the fruit of the Holy Spirit (Gal 5:22-23)?

Are you there yet?

I am complete in the Lord Jesus Christ (Col 2:9,10) - a complete Catholic. And I did it the hard way, through my home faith, through its hard knocks, through scrupulous adherence to its laws and customs and rituals and traditions; and no, I'm not planning on going through that rope course again. I've run my race. I got there by a different way, externally, and a more difficult way, internally, than Catholics. Catholics are given the hints and tips, a streamlined algorithm, perfected over two thousand years and through two hundred sixty-five Popes. I think I explicitly appreciate what many practicing Catholics have in the Roman Catholic Church and Organization, more than they do, because I know how rocky a path it is for those outside of Her.

This is where the Church wants you to be. Are you there yet?

:)
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Did you become Holy by the Spirit or through the Works of the flesh?

The Gospel is not will worship....the Just shall live by faith. Did God work the transformation in you or did you do it through your own works?

Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: [it is] the gift of God:


Eph 2:9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.


Eph 2:10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

You seem to be boasting in your accomplishments.

:yawn:
 
Nihilo

Nihilo

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griffinsavard said:
You seem to be boasting in your accomplishments.
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Interesting.

Were you crucified, buried, and resurrected with the Lord Jesus Christ yet (Rom 6:3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12; Gal 2:20)? Does the second death have power over you still (Rev 20:6)? Have you received the Holy Spirit yet (Jn 20:22)? Do you yet walk in the Holy Spirit, never fulfilling any of the lusts of your flesh (Gal 5:16), and always experiencing the fruit of the Holy Spirit (Gal 5:22-23)? Are you yet complete in the Lord Jesus Christ (Col 2:9,10)?

:)
 
annabenedetti

annabenedetti

like marbles on glass
Nihilo said:
I am complete in the Lord Jesus Christ (Col 2:9,10) - a complete Catholic. And I did it the hard way, through my home faith, through its hard knocks, through scrupulous adherence to its laws and customs and rituals and traditions; and no, I'm not planning on going through that rope course again. I've run my race. I got there by a different way, externally, and a more difficult way, internally, than Catholics. Catholics are given the hints and tips, a streamlined algorithm, perfected over two thousand years and through two hundred sixty-five Popes. I think I explicitly appreciate what many practicing Catholics have in the Roman Catholic Church and Organization, more than they do, because I know how rocky a path it is for those outside of Her.

This is where the Church wants you to be. Are you there yet?

:)
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I appreciate your response, but your use of the word "they" distills the fact that your religion and mine are separate.

It's funny, most people who aren't Catholic don't go out of their way to identify themselves as such. I don't understand it, but I wish you well.
 
Nihilo

Nihilo

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annabenedetti said:
I appreciate your response, but your use of the word "they" distills the fact that your religion and mine are separate.

It's funny, most people who aren't Catholic don't go out of their way to identify themselves as such. I don't understand it, but I wish you well.
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:e4e:
 
annabenedetti

annabenedetti

like marbles on glass
kmoney said:
Thanks.

I was never a fan of the doctrine of original sin.

What actual sins does an infant have?
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Romans 5 is the more common scripture, I think. No, the infant cannot commit sin, but he inherits sin, passed down from Adam.

What gifts are bestowed? Sanctifying grace for what?
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When we receive the Holy Spirit at baptism, (born again in water and the Spirit) we receive the gifts of the Spirit, which sanctify us and help us grow in holiness. They are: wsdom, understanding, counsel, fortitude, knowledge, piety, and fear of the Lord. Those gifts are scriptural.
 
kmoney

kmoney

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annabenedetti said:
Romans 5 is the more common scripture, I think.
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Yeah, I've read it a few times. :chuckle:

No, the infant cannot commit sin, but he inherits sin, passed down from Adam.
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OK. When Evoken said "actual" I thought that implied infants sin. I would have disagreed but there are a few scriptures to back it up anyway.

When we receive the Holy Spirit at baptism, (born again in water and the Spirit) we receive the gifts of the Spirit, which sanctify us and help us grow in holiness. They are: wsdom, understanding, counsel, fortitude, knowledge, piety, and fear of the Lord. Those gifts are scriptural.
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So Catholics do two baptisms? The infant baptism and then a "believers baptism" later on?
 
Evoken

Evoken

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kmoney said:
So Catholics do two baptisms? The infant baptism and then a "believers baptism" later on?
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No, there is just "one baptism for the remission of sins" as the creed states. This baptism is given either to adults or infants. In infants, it removes the stain of original sin. In adults it removes both original sin and any actual sins they may have committed.

What follows Baptism "later on" is the sacrament of Confirmation.


Evo
 
Cruciform

Cruciform

New member
Aimiel said:
But... if it removes original sin from infants, why do every single one of them still sin?
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We continue to commit sins after baptism because we still retain what theologians refer to as concupiscence, which the Catechism defines as
"Human appetites or desires which remain disordered due to the temporal consequences of original sin, which remain even after Baptism, and which produce an inclination to sin."​



Gaudium de veritate,

Cruciform
+T+
 
Aimiel

Aimiel

Well-known member
Yes, the fact that even those who are baptized for the remission of original sin still sin. It only shows that infant baptism is worthless.
 
kmoney

kmoney

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Evoken said:
No, there is just "one baptism for the remission of sins" as the creed states. This baptism is given either to adults or infants. In infants, it removes the stain of original sin. In adults it removes both original sin and any actual sins they may have committed.

What follows Baptism "later on" is the sacrament of Confirmation.


Evo
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OK. I think I remember anna mentioning a believers baptism earlier and thought she meant it was a Catholic thing. :e4e:

What does the sacrament of Confirmation entail?
 
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