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Thread: Battle Talk ~ Battle Royale VIII

  1. #91
    Over 3000 post club Freak's Avatar
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    Originally posted by Jerry Shugart

    Nimrod,

    I asked you when the following prophecy was fulfilled:

    "In that day shall the LORD defend the inhabitants of Jerusalem; and he that is feeble among them at that day shall be as David; and the house of David shall be as God, as the angel of the LORD before them.And it shall come to pass in that day, that I will seek to destroy all the nations that come against Jerusalem"(Zech.12:8,9).

    You said,"I maintain that it was fulfilled during Ester's time".

    The writer of the link which you provided is so confused that he thinks that the events described in the book of Esther is in regard to "Jerusalem".But the events described in that book happened in Persia,and not in Jerusalem!

    This is your "reasonable" answer!

    In HIs grace,--Jerry
    Jesus Loves You

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    Old Timer Nimrod's Avatar
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    IN the Scriptures, Matthew 5:17-20 [COLOR=red]17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. 18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. 19 Whosoever(That would be Freak)[COLOR=red] therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so,(That would you, Freak) he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven. 20


    I don't know how many times I have to go over this with dispensationalist. It gets frustrating , but they need to know the proper way to think about the Law.

    Things to know about the Law
    1.) It NEVER brought righteousness. Just because you see a verse that speaks about the law, you have to ask yourself, if he is referring to salvation or something else. If he is speak of salvation, then yes we are no longer under the law. That is a good thing because no one is saved through observing the law. If we die without Christ we will be judged by the Law, and will fall short and will be condemned.
    If he is speaking about the law being good and not to make void, he is not speaking about salvation but of a guide on how to live life he on earth.

    Freak, since u say u are no longer under the law. What guides to to know what is right or wrong?


    In your last post you quote the law, when it is referring to salvation. So I need no to comment about that.

    Originally posted by Freak
    All who rely on observing the law are under a curse,
    What am I relying on? I don't rely on the Observance of the Law for salvation. SO what do you mean about rely?


    Originally posted by Freak
    What does this verse mean to you?
    I certainly won't disagee, but Jesus also said in Matthew 22:40 "On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets. Are u saying Freak that we no longer need to observe the two greatest commandments?

  3. #93
    TOL Legend Jerry Shugart's Avatar
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    Nimrod,

    Do you keep the precepts of the Sabbath commandments which are under the Law?

    Are you not aware that there have been new commandments given to the Body of Christ?

    In His grace,--Jerry

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    Old Timer Nimrod's Avatar
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    Originally posted by Jerry Shugart

    Nimrod,

    Do you keep the precepts of the Sabbath commandments which are under the Law?

    Are you not aware that there have been new commandments given to the Body of Christ?

    In His grace,--Jerry
    Yes to the sabbath, it was never done away with.
    Matthew 24:20 "But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:"
    What precepts are you talking about?

    Jesus never done away with the commandments, in fact he summarized them in the two greatest commandments. I am aware that some of the law, ie sacrifices, dietary, circumcision is done away with in the NT. But I am not aware of commandments that is for the Church and seperate commandments for the Jews. I hold that God has one olive tree, and one sheep fold.

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    Over 3000 post club Freak's Avatar
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    Originally posted by Nimrod

    Freak, since u say u are no longer under the law. What guides to to know what is right or wrong?
    I say, live by the Spirit, and you will not gratify the desires of the sinful nature. For the sinful nature desires what is contrary to the Spirit, and the Spirit what is contrary to the sinful nature. They are in conflict with each other, so that you do not do what you want. But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under law.

    Would you rather be under the Law or be guided by the Holy Spirit?
    Jesus Loves You

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    Old Timer Nimrod's Avatar
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    Originally posted by Freak

    I say, live by the Spirit, and you will not gratify the desires of the sinful nature. For the sinful nature desires what is contrary to the Spirit, and the Spirit what is contrary to the sinful nature. They are in conflict with each other, so that you do not do what you want. But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under law.

    Couple of problems here.
    1.) How do you know you are in the Spirit and when you are not?
    2.) Can the devil disguise himself as an angel of light, and u might think it is the Spirit speaking?

    Of course you are to live by the Spirit, but we leak. We need to refuel the Spirit within us, thererfore there are times when we are not filled in Spirit.

  7. #97
    Over 3000 post club Freak's Avatar
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    Originally posted by Nimrod

    Couple of problems here.
    1.) How do you know you are in the Spirit and when you are not?
    ...because those who are led by the Spirit of God are sons of God. For you did not receive a spirit that makes you a slave again to fear, but you received the Spirit of sonship. And by him we cry, "Abba, Father." The Spirit himself testifies with our spirit that we are God's children. Now if we are children, then we are heirs--heirs of God and co-heirs with Christ, if indeed we share in his sufferings in order that we may also share in his glory.

    2.) Can the devil disguise himself as an angel of light, and u might think it is the Spirit speaking?
    See above.

    Of course you are to live by the Spirit, but we leak. We need to refuel the Spirit within us, thererfore there are times when we are not filled in Spirit.
    This is unbiblical. We don't "leak" the Holy Spirit. We are sealed so no leaking will occur.

    And you also were included in Christ when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation. Having believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God's possession--to the praise of his glory.
    Jesus Loves You

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    Old Timer Nimrod's Avatar
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    Originally posted by Freak
    We don't "leak" the Holy Spirit. We are sealed so no leaking will occur.
    Acts 2:4 "And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance."

    Acts 4:31 "And when they had prayed, the place was shaken where they were assembled together; and they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and they spake the word of God with boldness."

    Two different instances where the disciples were filled with the Holy Spirit. It goes to show that one is not always "filled".

    Being filled with the Holy Spirit is not a one time transaction. It starts at re-birth and we need to continue to be filled, by following Jesus commands which summarizes the law and prophets, also by fasting and praying.

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    Over 3000 post club Freak's Avatar
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    Originally posted by Nimrod

    Being filled with the Holy Spirit is not a one time transaction. It starts at re-birth and we need to continue to be filled, by following Jesus commands which summarizes the law and prophets, also by fasting and praying.
    Can you lose the infilling of the Holy Spirit? Where does it state in Scripture that we are filled with the Holy Spirit via obedience to the law?
    Jesus Loves You

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    Originally posted by Freak

    Can you lose the infilling of the Holy Spirit? Where does it state in Scripture that we are filled with the Holy Spirit via obedience to the law?
    Eph 5:18 "but be filled with the Holy Spirit". This statement is in present tense, or another way of wording it 'Be continually being filled with the Holy Spirit', thus implying that this is something that should repeatedly be happening to Christians.

    Think of a balloon, once it is filled with air even though it can hold more, you can say it is filled. But when you put more air into it, the ballon stretches. The same way the Holy Spirit works in us, we are filled(air) but as our christian sanctification grows we are able to hold more air and need to be filled again.

    This is a poor analogy, hard to explain God. No, you can not lose the infilling of the Holy Spirit.

    How to stay filled in Spirit
    ------------------------------------------
    We must: (1) be Christ-centered, (2) be in the Word, (3) be submissive, and (4) be confident.

    1.)The first essential for being Spirit-filled is to center our lives on Jesus Christ. He must be the focal point of our thoughts and aspirations. In all we do, we must be conscious of following His example and doing His will. When we are Christ-centered, we are pleasing the Holy Spirit because that's what He wants us to do. In fact, Jesus said, "He [the Holy Spirit] will glorify Me, for He will take of what is Mine and declare it to you" (John 16:14).
    We nned to Purify ourselves from sin (1 John 3:2,3) "Whosoever committeth sin trangresseth also the law....and in him there is no sin...whosoever is born of God doth no commit sin"

    If you love Christ you will do what He says, i.e. follow His commandments, which sum up the law and prophets. This is just one of the step of being filled with the Holy Spirit

    Freak how do you interpret Romans 8:4?

  11. #101
    Over 3000 post club Freak's Avatar
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    Originally posted by Nimrod

    If you love Christ you will do what He says, i.e. follow His commandments, which sum up the law and prophets. This is just one of the step of being filled with the Holy Spirit
    Is there a moment in your life that you perfectly line up to the law's requirement? Think about it.

    Only in Christ are we acceptable. Only in Christ can we be above the law.
    Jesus Loves You

  12. #102
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    Hawkings atheistic universe argument

    "I can find a word for something popping into existence from nothing: magic. Magic is not real. And an atheist with a pre-suppositional bias against a supernatural origin of the natural universe must contradict at least one of the first two laws, and so, Stephen does. Hawkings is wrong."

    This is very much a false statement. Quantum physics predicts that particle/anti-particle pairs come into existence spontaneously. This has been tested by experiment and shown to be true. When things are at quantum and plank lengths you can't use standard forms of logic or reasoning. Existence and non-existence are not well defined concepts until the quantum system is disrupted by a classical system, ie. measured. As the universe can’t be measured outside itself, by definition, since it is all that there is. Hence, its existence on that scale becomes a difficult question to deal with in its own right. As Hawkings said, time itself is part of the universe. If the universe is point sized time does not process. If time does not process does the universe exist? How could we know it exists if it requires time to observe the universe to measure its existence? If something can't be measured to exist then the discrete distinction between existence and non-existence is meaningless.

    ( Bahh, rubbish, you say, but take 4 years of undergraduate physics and then come back and talk. One shouldn’t discount things because they superficially make no sense. )

    So I guess one could say that the universe was in this very much non-classical, semi-existent (but most likely physically tractable) state until it got large enough for time and existence to have some meaning. Then it existed. When physical systems scale to different rules, ie. Plank weirdness -> quantum -> semi-classical- > classical they do so smoothly. So one can not even say at what point the universe did in fact exist, and what point where existence had no meaning.


    A non-quantum argument that addresses this problem:
    The universe is defined as the set of all that exists. Anything that is not in this set does not exist. Does this set exist? The universe can’t include itself. Hence the universe does not exist. This is a classic paradox of logic. We see again that discussing the existence, non-existence, especially in the creation of the universe is on a deep level a flawed question. The vary notion of existence is so intimately tied to the concept of the universe that it can not be applied to the universe in a meaningful way.

  13. #103
    Journeyman cur_deus_homo's Avatar
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    Re: Hawkings atheistic universe argument

    Originally posted by leers

    The universe is defined as the set of all that exists. Anything that is not in this set does not exist. Does this set exist? The universe can�t include itself. Hence the universe does not exist. This is a classic paradox of logic. We see again that discussing the existence, non-existence, especially in the creation of the universe is on a deep level a flawed question. The vary notion of existence is so intimately tied to the concept of the universe that it can not be applied to the universe in a meaningful way.
    This is a version of Russell's Paradox, but the problem here has more to do with the meaning of "existence" as a predicate than with arbitrarily defining the universe as a "set of all that exists."
    The engine of history runs on the combustion of ideas.

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    Over 2000 post club One Eyed Jack's Avatar
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    Re: Hawkings atheistic universe argument

    Originally posted by leers
    This is very much a false statement. Quantum physics predicts that particle/anti-particle pairs come into existence spontaneously. This has been tested by experiment and shown to be true.
    Could you cite the experiment, please?

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    Old Timer lightninboy's Avatar
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    Jerry Shugart won.

    Jerry Shugart won. Jeremy contradicted himself when he said that works were not required for salvation when he was arguing that works were required for salvation.

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