toldailytopic: Why do atheists spend so much time on Christian forums such as Theolog

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nicholsmom

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The "new atheist" wants the RELIGION to be "destroyed."

You say that like it's no big deal - like "we just want to take out their tonsils - after that, they can live however they like." But religion isn't like tonsils - it's like the brain. It drives everything else. So you want to lobotomize religious people and that's no big deal to you :sigh:
 

Lighthouse

The Dark Knight
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Yes. But believing that fornication, homosexuality and abortion happen to be amoral acts has nothing to do with believing that anything is an amoral act.
If you believe those are amoral, or moral, then your opinion on what is or is not immoral is irrelevant.

It appeared as if you were comparing the attitude of a Christian (throwing someone out of the way to avoid the cliff-edge and that of an atheist who will encourage them).
I was actually thinking more along the lines of Christians, such as the poster to whom I was responding. But atheists fall into that category as well.
 

Lovejoy

Active member
You say that like it's no big deal - like "we just want to take out their tonsils - after that, they can live however they like." But religion isn't like tonsils - it's like the brain. It drives everything else. So you want to lobotomize religious people and that's no big deal to you :sigh:

It does seem to be a huge, glaring misapprehension on their part.
 

Silent Hunter

Well-known member
Silent Hunter said:
The "new atheist" wants the RELIGION to be "destroyed." This is in stark contrast to the religious person who wants the ATHEIST to be destroyed (take the majority attitude of Christians toward homosexuals for example).
I completely disagree with you.
It's unlikely you would have replied if you didn’t.

Even if this comment were correct, I would point out the thread on the medical missionaries that were murdered. I do not blame atheists for that, but it is an evidence that Christians are willing to die for Christ, willing to give their life (not take someone else’s) living out what He commanded.
The “murder” of the medical “team” (they claimed to NOT be missionaries) is an example of the religious extremism to which my comment is aimed and all that need be done is replace a few words. For example:

The "new atheist" wants the RELIGION to be "destroyed." This is in stark contrast to the Muslim person who wants the CHRISTIAN to be destroyed (take the majority attitude of Muslim toward missionaries for example).​

Were these “missionaries” more willing to die to “spread the Gospel” or more willing to die to “provide medical care?”

Did the Muslim militia “murder” the medical team or did they righteously kill heretics to keeping a false “doctrine” from the people they "loved?"

If this is true, what more serious thing could you attempt to destroy then their beliefs? Break the body, murder the body, who cares? We were built for that. But to tell me I cannot teach my children my beliefs? To tell me that I am immoral to do a right thing, just because I do in the name of Christ?
Is it immoral to tell a lie? You do indeed do so when you tell your children there is an invisible sky spirit who will punish them if they aren’t “good.” It, in fact, borders on child abuse.

I am not talking about discussion about the explanatory scope of, evidence for, etc. I am talking about a whole hearted effort to remove belief from the public, prevent the teaching of beliefs to children (by their own parents), and demonize the proponents of belief. If you do not think that new atheists do this, I can tell you that you are wrong.
Cite the “new atheist” who advocates death for such beliefs as opposed to Christians (Muslims) who do.

If all we are doing is comparing the worst Christians to the worst atheists, than this is likely a waste of time. I cannot imagine a good thing coming from it. I actually already regret my earlier posted response. Someone calls some atheists good, I remind them that some are bad. How is that helpful?
The worst atheist is far better than the best Christian imo.
 

bybee

New member
So,

So,

It's unlikely you would have replied if you didn’t.

The “murder” of the medical “team” (they claimed to NOT be missionaries) is an example of the religious extremism to which my comment is aimed and all that need be done is replace a few words. For example:

The "new atheist" wants the RELIGION to be "destroyed." This is in stark contrast to the Muslim person who wants the CHRISTIAN to be destroyed (take the majority attitude of Muslim toward missionaries for example).​

Were these “missionaries” more willing to die to “spread the Gospel” or more willing to die to “provide medical care?”

Did the Muslim militia “murder” the medical team or did they righteously kill heretics to keeping a false “doctrine” from the people they "loved?"

Is it immoral to tell a lie? You do indeed do so when you tell your children there is an invisible sky spirit who will punish them if they aren’t “good.” It, in fact, borders on child abuse.

Cite the “new atheist” who advocates death for such beliefs as opposed to Christians (Muslims) who do.

The worst atheist is far better than the best Christian imo.

So, are you slumming?
 

Silent Hunter

Well-known member
What is this bigotry? Do you imagine all atheists congegrate on religious forums, or Christian forums? What do you say to the atheists that congregate on Islamic forums (as I have done myself). Do they secretely believe that the Islamic rendition of God is?

In addition, why do you imagine that someone would, despite somehow knowing God's existence - inherently despise it, and would rather it not be so? What self-interest exists there if someone knows the consequences are eternal torture?


I don't hate any God anymore than I hate hypothetical fairies, or Zeus.


So you are literally accusing every single atheist of lying.

What is the point of me interacting with you if you're just going to assume that everything I do, and my own nature to your beliefs is nothing but treachery?
What he said.
 

Silent Hunter

Well-known member
You say that like it's no big deal - like "we just want to take out their tonsils - after that, they can live however they like." But religion isn't like tonsils - it's like the brain. It drives everything else. So you want to lobotomize religious people and that's no big deal to you.
You're building a straw man. Perhaps you should research the history of Christianities abuses (and continued abuses) instead of ignoring them.
 

Skavau

New member
If you believe those are amoral, or moral, then your opinion on what is or is not immoral is irrelevant.
This, of course is what you believe. But this is irrelevant to your central point. Believing that fornication, homosexuality and abortion are amoral has nothing to do with whether or not you hold true to the claim that all things are permissable (as you originally stated).
 

nicholsmom

New member
You're building a straw man. Perhaps you should research the history of Christianities abuses (and continued abuses) instead of ignoring them.

I am not ignorant of history. What I find there is an abuse of any and all religions by men who wish to wield power. Christianity can be twisted to any man's use - if a power-hungry man wishes, he can use Christianity as a tool to get where he's going. But don't blame Christianity. There isn't anything within Christianity that can turn a good mad evil, but the wicked will use whatever comes in handy.

If you want to get rid of religion because wicked men bend it to their evil purpose, then you'd better start campaigning to get rid of the Internet too - and print media; and TV; and movies :shocked:

Nice way to avoid what I really said, too. Building a straw man who points and says "Look! A straw man!"

Christianity is not something that I keep in my dresser drawer or in a curio cabinet. My relationship to the very real person of Christ is at the center of who I am. Everything I think, say and do come from that center. Sure, I make mistakes, I even sin, but I deeply regret and mourn over those sins and errors. I submit all that I am to Christ, His will and His way. Removal of Christianity from me would be very much like a lobotomy.

I am glad that I live in a nation that respects and protects my human right to think, believe, and do as I wish within the rule of law (of course it's only the "do" part that submits to the rule of law).

What are you? Some kind of control freak that you think I have no right to my own beliefs?
 

Silent Hunter

Well-known member
I am not ignorant of history.
No one said you were "ignorant" of history in general. You do seem to be "ignorant" of Christian history which you either conveniently ignore or for which you make excuses.

What I find there is an abuse of any and all religions by men who wish to wield power. Christianity can be twisted to any man's use - if a power-hungry man wishes, he can use Christianity as a tool to get where he's going. But don't blame Christianity. There isn't anything within Christianity that can turn a good mad evil, but the wicked will use whatever comes in handy.
. . . see what I mean?

If you want to get rid of religion because wicked men bend it to their evil purpose, then you'd better start campaigning to get rid of the Internet too - and print media; and TV; and movies.
This would be building a straw man because you're exaggerating.

Nice way to avoid what I really said, too. Building a straw man who points and says "Look! A straw man!"
I didn’t avoid anything. If that had been my purpose my post would have been limited to, “You're building a straw man;” instead I added a short declaration of explanation.

Christianity is not something that I keep in my dresser drawer or in a curio cabinet. My relationship to the very real person of Christ is at the center of who I am. Everything I think, say and do come from that center. Sure, I make mistakes, I even sin, but I deeply regret and mourn over those sins and errors. I submit all that I am to Christ, His will and His way. Removal of Christianity from me would be very much like a lobotomy.
In your case this may be true. However, have you ever wondered why when things go right you “praise” the invisible sky spirit for allowing it to happen but when things go wrong it’s your fault or someone other than the invisible sky spirit is to blame?

I am glad that I live in a nation that respects and protects my human right to think, believe, and do as I wish within the rule of law (of course it's only the "do" part that submits to the rule of law).
Aren’t we lucky we don’t live in a Christian theocracy?

What are you? Some kind of control freak that you think I have no right to my own beliefs?
You can believe any fool thing you want to believe. It’s your time you are wasting not mine.
 

kmoney

New member
Hall of Fame
Guys, don't even bother debating with SH. He knows more than you can possibly imagine on anything you are discussing. You are just delaying your inevitable defeat. :plain:
 

Silent Hunter

Well-known member
Who is "you people"?
I saw that coming. See here, LOL.

And this is the second time you've read way too much into my use of the word "debate".
The word "debate" has a much more limited meaning than "discussion."

Wonder Boy.
See also "Wiz Kid" and "Prodigy."

I'm not spoiling anything. Just trying to save the people you are debating with some embarrassment.
Thank you for caring and sharing.

"If Christ were here now there is one thing he would not be . . . a Christian." - Mark Twain, "Notebook"
 

kmoney

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I saw that coming. See here, LOL.
Makes so much sense now. :plain:

The word "debate" has a much more limited meaning than "discussion."
I never said I used the word properly. :eek:

See also "Wiz Kid" and "Prodigy."
I would see them if I didn't like my "Wonder Boy" better.

Thank you for caring and sharing.
Anytime. :up:

"If Christ were here now there is one thing he would not be . . . a Christian." - Mark Twain, "Notebook"

:confused:
 

Silent Hunter

Well-known member
Makes so much sense now.
Well . . . you asked for it.

I never said I used the word properly.
Then don't complain when I "read way too much into" your misuse of a word.

I would see them if I didn't like my "Wonder Boy" better.
Whatever churns your butter.

:up:

"We've all heard that a million monkeys banging on a million typewriters will eventually reproduce the entire works of Shakespeare. Now, thanks to the Internet, we know this is not true." - Robert Wilensky
 

Town Heretic

Out of Order
Hall of Fame
The “murder” of the medical “team” (they claimed to NOT be missionaries) is an example of the religious extremism to which my comment is aimed and all that need be done is replace a few words.
And there are examples of murder and deprivation done in the name of a secular state and often with the intent to rid that state of its religious element (see: China and/or the former Soviet Union under Stalin). Like I said to the late Dodo, the problem isn't religion or communism, whatever you may think of the ideas, but men who use them as a means to power. It's historically true on either side of that great division.

The "new atheist" wants the RELIGION to be "destroyed." This is in stark contrast to the Muslim person who wants the CHRISTIAN to be destroyed (take the majority attitude of Muslim toward missionaries for example).​
Wouldn't the better parallel be the zealous convert who wants atheism stamped out and every man brought into an understanding with God? It appears you've chosen a comparison that serves your purpose without being entirely fair in the selection.

Were these “missionaries” more willing to die to “spread the Gospel” or more willing to die to “provide medical care?”
I'm with Patton. Let the other fellow die for his cause. Live for yours.

Did the Muslim militia “murder” the medical team or did they righteously kill heretics to keeping a false “doctrine” from the people they "loved?"
What they thought they were doing is far less important to me than what they accomplished, which was the intentional killing of defenseless men and women who were not attempting to physically harm them. That's murder no matter who does it or why.

Is it immoral to tell a lie?
Not if your premise is correct. And who gives a fig for morality absent an absolute standard and a means of correction? If there is no God and no moral absolute that relates to Him leave things to civil and criminal violation and penalty. Absent God morality is nothing more or less than peer pressure aimed at a social conformity to support this or that power structure.

You do indeed do so when you tell your children there is an invisible sky spirit who will punish them if they aren’t “good.” It, in fact, borders on child abuse.
First things first. Using that sort of descriptive only convinces people who aren't inclined to cheer you on that you lack maturity, so if your point is to move the margins or give anyone else pause it's a poor approach and runs contrary to your aim. And I don't know any Christian parents who approach the religious instruction of their children in that fashion, though I know a number of atheists who routinely run to the illustration. :plain: Lastly, a belief isn't a lie. It may or may not be true (though in this case you can't establish that either) but that's another matter. So you may declare and believe yourself a thing without being that thing in the least. It doesn't follow that you've lied.

The worst atheist is far better than the best Christian imo.
See, when you suggest a standard by which Stalin can be considered a better man than, say, C.S. Lewis, you only end up looking like the sort of unreasoned fanatic you appear to be arguing against a bit too broadly. That, in turn, calls into question your judgments, process and conclusions. I think you'll grow out of it, but at present it's having an impact on how people see you and how seriously they take you...and before you declare your indifference (should your age move you to that) let me add that will only secure the impression and that it's a bit at odds with the point of posting on an internet forum.

:e4e:
 

kmoney

New member
Hall of Fame
Well . . . you asked for it.
I assume you caught it but just in case....I was being sarcastic. I still have no idea what you meant.

Then don't complain when I "read way too much into" your misuse of a word.
Except we've had this debate before so you should just let it slide. ;)

"We've all heard that a million monkeys banging on a million typewriters will eventually reproduce the entire works of Shakespeare. Now, thanks to the Internet, we know this is not true." - Robert Wilensky

Do you have a quote of the day calendar or something? :idunno:
 
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