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Thread: Nicer than God!

  1. #31
    Friendly Neighborhood Admin Turbo's Avatar
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    Freak,
    Do unrepentant homosexuals who reject Christ go to Heaven when they die?

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    TOL Legend Clete's Avatar
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    Originally posted by beanieboy

    Is this how Jesus treated Zacheus?
    Is this how he treated the adultress?
    Is this how he treated the woman at the well?

    Or is he "nicer than God"?
    Did you even read the article?

    All three of these were repentent! And even if that could be argued (which it can't) Jesus was hardlt sweet and friendly to the woman at the well. It may be no big deal to be accused of sleeping around today but I assure it was then. Jesus was very direct and didn't pull any punches with the truth, if people responded rightly then He was quick to forgive if not then He was equally quick to condemn and to be intentionally offensive.

    Resting in Him,
    Clete
    Last edited by Turbo; March 23rd, 2004 at 07:53 PM.
    "The [open view] is an attempt to provide a more Biblically faithful, rationally coherent, and practically satisfying account of God and the divine-human relationship..." - Dr. John Sanders

  3. #33
    TOL Legend Clete's Avatar
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    Originally posted by Chileice

    Wow! Clint. You are a prime example of what a true Christian should NOT be. Jesus didn't call down fire on the unrepentant cities like his disciples desired. Matthew 13 teaches the wheat and the tares should grow together. Yes, there will come a time of judgment but you may be judges more harshly than those you are judging. Vengeance belongs to the Lord... not to Clete.

    It was this kind of stuff that made me start the Neither Victims nor Victimizers thread. I think you better re-read the New Testament with an open heart.
    Did you even read the article?

    Who said anything about taking vengeance?
    Are you suggesting that we should be tolerant of homo's and adulterers? If so it is you who need to reread the New Testament. We are taught that we (the governing authorities) should execute such criminals.

    Are you also saying that it is wrong to judge?
    Please, tell me you not judging me for judging people because if so then we know what that makes you, right?


    Resting in Him,
    Clete
    "The [open view] is an attempt to provide a more Biblically faithful, rationally coherent, and practically satisfying account of God and the divine-human relationship..." - Dr. John Sanders

  4. #34
    TOL Legend Clete's Avatar
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    Originally posted by Nietzschean

    The problem with gay bashing or any sort of extermination of sin is that it defeats its own purpose. If you're honestly offended by the very presence of the person or the way of life in question, then good for you. If you can remain civil and try to convince people about it (as in only using words), then great! But most people, when they see something they don't like, are not rational. I'm referring to America not too long ago, and even now in some places, where homosexuals are actively beaten and killed. That's not exactly giving them a chance to repent, is it? I would liken this much to the Inquisition. All you'll get from screaming and beating on people is for them to claim your thoughts as their own just to get you off of their backs.
    What are you talking about?
    Did you even read the article?
    Who said anything about extermination?
    By your logic we shouldn't even execute murders!

    And frankly I don't really care if they repent or not? I would prefer that they do but that's not the reason for stigmatizing them or at least not the primary one.
    They are criminals and as such they are dangerous in many ways to everyone around them. Homosexuality should be recriminalized, restigmatized and preached against in that order. The criminal code teaches the entire society what is right and what is wrong, stigmatization of a behavior offers strong peer pressure toward the prevention of such behavior wherever it stigmatized, and local preaching and other form of personal persuasion are effective in one on one situations when the perpetrators intentions and attitudes can be specifically determined.
    When I am in a public forum, the only one of these three forces that I can personally bring to bear is the second and so I do not hesitate to do so. My intent is not primarily to engender repentance in the homo's case but to impact those around him and myself in such a way as to cause them to think twice before associating or participating with homo's.

    Resting in Him,
    Clete
    "The [open view] is an attempt to provide a more Biblically faithful, rationally coherent, and practically satisfying account of God and the divine-human relationship..." - Dr. John Sanders

  5. #35
    TOL Legend Clete's Avatar
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    Originally posted by beanieboy

    Further, I would like you to explain to me this approach, using the actions of Jesus.

    Now, Jesus didn't need to come for the saved. That would be preaching to the choir.

    So what did he do?
    In your "this is how you do it," you say that you should tell someone that they disgust you, to be killed, that they don't deserve God, etc.

    Not once do you offer an out, a solution, the truth of God, the grace and mercy or forgiveness of God.

    You simply damn them.

    And this is the way to go?

    And if someone came up to you, and started yelling, "You aren't worshipping Shiva! You disgust me! If it was legal, I would kill you with a crowbar right now, in the name of Shiva!"

    Would YOU want to convert?

    You don't offer God.
    You offer your own condemnation.

    I'm sure that makes the one you serve very happy.
    Did you even read the article?

    See previous post. My intent is not specifically to casue them to repent. To plant a seed of guilt perhaps but that is all. They will not repent anyway unless their guilt is communicated. You would have me try to get them saved before they even understand that they're lost.

    Resting in Him,
    Clete
    "The [open view] is an attempt to provide a more Biblically faithful, rationally coherent, and practically satisfying account of God and the divine-human relationship..." - Dr. John Sanders

  6. #36
    TOL Legend Clete's Avatar
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    Originally posted by beanieboy

    You deserve to be put to death.
    What crime have I committed? Homo's commit what God defines as a capital crime everyday and brag about it! I do not say that they should be executed lightly or flipantly! I mean precisely what I say and have Scripture to back it up.

    Resting in Him,
    Clete
    "The [open view] is an attempt to provide a more Biblically faithful, rationally coherent, and practically satisfying account of God and the divine-human relationship..." - Dr. John Sanders

  7. #37
    TOL Legend Clete's Avatar
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    Originally posted by Turbo

    beanieboy,

    Zacchaeus was clearly had a repentant and humble heart. Jesus could plainly see it. Any third-grader reading the story should be able to see it, too. He was seeking after the Lord, and he ever is recorded calling Him "Lord."

    Jesus called sinners to repent. You can't tell someone they need to repent without calling him a sinner, which is offensive to most people (like you).

    To those who were repentant, those with humble attitudes toward Him, He was gentle.

    To those who were hard-hearted toward Him, putting their own beliefs above His commandments which were revealed through the prophets, He was quite harsh.

    You, beanieboy, are among the latter. You reject the truth of God in favor of what is right in your own eyes.

    If you think Clete is harsh, wait until you meet God. He is not merciful toward those who reject His mercy.
    Thanks Turbo! I was getting behind on responding! I guys gotta work sometime ya know!

    GREAT Avatar! I love it!
    "The [open view] is an attempt to provide a more Biblically faithful, rationally coherent, and practically satisfying account of God and the divine-human relationship..." - Dr. John Sanders

  8. #38
    TOL Legend Clete's Avatar
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    Originally posted by beanieboy
    But what arrogance to be forgiven of God, and then walk around calling others sinners in a haughty manner.
    How foul that must smell before God.
    I was not forgiven by God until I repented and I am likewise willing and happy to forgive if and when someone repents, not before.

    Further, it is you who is being haughty not me! I do what I do with measured intent and purpose and my harshness is reserved for those who have shown cause to deserve it. You on the other hand misrepresent or don't understand what you are even ranting about! You don't mind giving me a hard time but heaven forbid that we hurt a homo's feelings.

    Resting in Him,
    Clete
    "The [open view] is an attempt to provide a more Biblically faithful, rationally coherent, and practically satisfying account of God and the divine-human relationship..." - Dr. John Sanders

  9. #39
    TOL Legend Clete's Avatar
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    Originally posted by beanieboy

    The story of the man who owed a great sum, and was forgiven his debt, but refused to forgive the debt owed to him, which was much smaller?

    It's so surreal coming here, and not believing the Bible is the word of God, necessarily, but having to use it to point it out to Christians, who more or less, contradict it.
    Do you even understand what REPENTANT means?
    "The [open view] is an attempt to provide a more Biblically faithful, rationally coherent, and practically satisfying account of God and the divine-human relationship..." - Dr. John Sanders

  10. #40
    TOL Legend Clete's Avatar
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    Originally posted by Lovejoy

    This is an interesting "discussion". Perhaps gays do deserve death, but then so do we all, do we not? If the harshness of your approach stumbles one who might come, where are you? Christ says that He did not come to judge, but to save. Otherwise He would have destroyed to world, not His own life. On the otherhand, if we are so soft that we end up as the Corinthians did, we are under judgement. The episcopalians and united methodists are in trouble, for sure. Can we be soft of heart and yet have an unyielding sense of right and wrong? Can we judge someone worthy of death and yet lay down our life that they might be saved? Christ did. I plan on beating my breast and asking "why I am worthy, a sinner?"
    We are not talking about sin in general we are talking about criminal behavior. Homo's should be executed because they have committed a capital crime.

    Resting in Him,
    Clete
    "The [open view] is an attempt to provide a more Biblically faithful, rationally coherent, and practically satisfying account of God and the divine-human relationship..." - Dr. John Sanders

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    TOL Legend Clete's Avatar
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    Freak,

    As usual, you are wrong.

    Job 5:17 Behold, happy [is] the man whom God correcteth: therefore despise not thou the chastening of the Almighty:

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Pro 3:11 My son, despise not the chastening of the LORD; neither be weary of his correction:

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Isa 26:16 LORD, in trouble have they visited thee, they poured out a prayer [when] thy chastening [was] upon them.

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Hbr 12:5 And ye have forgotten the exhortation which speaketh unto you as unto children, My son, despise not thou the chastening of the Lord, nor faint when thou art rebuked of him:

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Hbr 12:7 If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not?

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Hbr 12:11 Now no chastening for the present seemeth to be joyous, but grievous: nevertheless afterward it yieldeth the peaceable fruit of righteousness unto them which are exercised thereby.

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Psa 139:21 Do not I hate them, O LORD, that hate thee? and am not I grieved with those that rise up against thee?

    Resting in Him,
    Clete
    "The [open view] is an attempt to provide a more Biblically faithful, rationally coherent, and practically satisfying account of God and the divine-human relationship..." - Dr. John Sanders

  12. #42
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    Originally posted by Clete Pfeiffer

    We are not talking about sin in general we are talking about criminal behavior. Homo's should be executed because they have committed a capital crime.

    Resting in Him,
    Clete
    I got nothin' to match the wrath that an unrepentant gay will face, and as such, will spend my life seeking their repentance. As well, I will not keep fellowship with a Christian who refuses to repent of sexual sin, including homosexuality. What else can I do? I would willing die for the Name, so I don't see execution as much of a threat. I think persecution of gays just makes them more militant anyway.
    The steadfast of mind You will keep in perfect peace, Because he trusts in You.

  13. #43
    TOL Legend Clete's Avatar
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    Originally posted by Lovejoy

    I got nothin' to match the wrath that an unrepentant gay will face, and as such, will spend my life seeking their repentance. As well, I will not keep fellowship with a Christian who refuses to repent of sexual sin, including homosexuality. What else can I do? I would willing die for the Name, so I don't see execution as much of a threat. I think persecution of gays just makes them more militant anyway.
    Who cares? Let them be militant! It's a better thing for them to be as evil as can be than for them to be able to assimilate into your community without the slightest resistance! Stop worrying so much about the homo's state of mind and worry more about YOUR family that they are working to destroy.

    Resting in Him,
    Clete
    "The [open view] is an attempt to provide a more Biblically faithful, rationally coherent, and practically satisfying account of God and the divine-human relationship..." - Dr. John Sanders

  14. #44
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    Clete cut straight to the point of his hatred… HOMOS..

    A psychologist would have a field day with you Clete !

    If ever I have heard the rantings of a closet homosexual.. YOURS ARE IT !

    I hope you confess all your illicit evil homosexual thoughts .. its is so clear you HATE them so much because they get to act on their desires.. while you have to chaff and itch and suffer… because God says you must..

    Give in Clete.. there is no God anyway.

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    Uh-oh, Clete! He figured you out.

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