toldailytopic: Seize BP: should the government seize the assets and take control over

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Aimiel

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Seizing the American division of an international corporation as large as BP would have huge, terrifying political ramifications.

I think the president's current plan to have BP pay out $20 billion over the next few years in damages is a much better alternative. Nationalizing the company would accomplish ... nothing. It may even drive industries out of the United States who are abiding by regulations. Have BP and its associate companies pay the damages, and if the stock folds so be it - they deserved it.
The current payment terms don't harm BP in the least, and they obviously aren't about to change their tactics, as the CEO demonstrated by going yachting, to get his life back, rather than attempt to stop the leak or clean up the spill.
 

Nick M

Black Rifles Matter
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Take over a company that the US has no authority over and a different sovereign state does (UK). Sure, why not.

It worked for Hitler and Stalin.
 

Aimiel

Well-known member
They obviously aren't concerned about a little thing like the US government's regulations and rules of law. Their US interests should be seized, until this mess is cleaned up, if indeed it can be.
 

drbrumley

Well-known member
until this mess is cleaned up, if indeed it can be.

What a Disappointment
Posted by Lew Rockwell on July 26, 2010 10:00 PM
Just as with the Exxon Valdez spill in Alaska, the oil from the BP spill in the Gulf of Mexico has..disappeared. How dare Mother Nature bug the ec-hysteriacs and the state, who now are all dressed up with no place to go.

UPDATE from Eli Cryderman:

Natural oil seeps leak millions of gallons of oil into gulf every year. Also, about two BP-leaks worth of oil is dumped down the drain annually.
 

Aimiel

Well-known member
Just as with the Exxon Valdez spill in Alaska, the oil from the BP spill in the Gulf of Mexico has disappeared.
If you believe that, then I've got a bridge I'd like to sell you. :squint:

Much of the oil from the Exxon Valdez is still there. It will be for years to come. The Deepwater Horizon's spilled oil is also still there, and is far more widespread, due to the use of dispersants, which we still don't know the full effects of, and may never know, due to the obscurity and man-made and natural spread of their usage.
Natural oil seeps leak millions of gallons of oil into gulf every year. Also, about two BP-leaks worth of oil is dumped down the drain annually.
Both those sources are mostly naturally rectified, by bacteria, etc., and don't contribute much at all to detrimental health effects upon wildlife.

http://www.cnn.com/SPECIALS/2010/gulf.coast.oil.spill/interactive/data.viz/index.html?hpt=C2
 

WandererInFog

New member
What a Disappointment
Posted by Lew Rockwell on July 26, 2010 10:00 PM
Just as with the Exxon Valdez spill in Alaska, the oil from the BP spill in the Gulf of Mexico has..disappeared. How dare Mother Nature bug the ec-hysteriacs and the state, who now are all dressed up with no place to go.

UPDATE from Eli Cryderman:

Natural oil seeps leak millions of gallons of oil into gulf every year. Also, about two BP-leaks worth of oil is dumped down the drain annually.

That all of the oil isn't all presently visible in one giant mass on the surface of the water doesn't mean it has "disappeared". We don't presently know how much is sitting below the surface (which is what I've seen fishermen and other people whose livelihood depend on the gulf say has happened in a number of interviews) and we don't how much has been artificially separated into smaller (and therefore less visible) parts by the dispersants and remains suspended in the water as pollutant. It will be years before we have anything resembling a full picture of what sort of damage this has done to fishing and other industries on the gulf coast.

That said, I think there's been an enormous false dichotmony presented in terms of how handle what to do in situation like this where a major corporation has allowed a disaster to occur through what appears at this point to have been a knowing disregard for proper safety. On the one hand we have people arguing for essentially amounts to a slap on the wrist fine and on the other people clamoring for nationalization. Neither of these is really an acceptable solution, because neither grants proper redress to those who are actually harmed by what occurred.

What I believe should've happened would've worked more like this:

1) Federal and state governments file for an injuction preventing BP from moving out of the country any assets currently held by its US subsidiary, in US financial institutions, or on US soil or waters.

2) Suit filed by the US Federal Government as well as the Governments of Louisiana, Mississippi, Texas, Alabama, Florida, and any other state directly affected by the oil spill representing themselves and their citizens as well as on behalf of the families of those killed by the explosion. This lawsuit should seek real damages in the amount of all property and potential future livelihood lost as well as punitive damages equaling 2x-4x the amount of real damages.

3) Should it appear at any point the during the trial that BP is trying to purposely devalue its US assets, the plaintiffs should file for and be granted summary judgement ending the case immediately.

4) Once BP is found liable (and they would be, because there's no doubt that they caused the damage only the degree of negligence involved) if they lack sufficient liquid capital to pay the amount of the judgement then their company is seized and it's assets sold to pay for the judgements.

5) If during the course of the civil trial it is determined that anything done by BPs managers or executives amounts to a criminal level of negligence, they are then brought to trial on that basis.

This solution doesn't move the government into any private industry and would largely preserve the jobs of those working for BP in the US (especially blue collar workers) as the refineries and the like would simply be sold off to other oil companies rather than being run by the government or shut down. BP's shareholders would end up with absolutely nothing, but frankly that's part of the risk of getting into the stock market, and in the future this would encourage people to consider a company's record properly abiding by laws and regulations when deciding whether or not to invest in them.
 

annabenedetti

like marbles on glass
That all of the oil isn't all presently visible in one giant mass on the surface of the water doesn't mean it has "disappeared". We don't presently know how much is sitting below the surface (which is what I've seen fishermen and other people whose livelihood depend on the gulf say has happened in a number of interviews) and we don't how much has been artificially separated into smaller (and therefore less visible) parts by the dispersants and remains suspended in the water as pollutant. It will be years before we have anything resembling a full picture of what sort of damage this has done to fishing and other industries on the gulf coast.

It's my understanding that the oil, being in its natural state and unrefined, will be reabsorbed into the ocean environment in the way that normal seepage is absorbed, something which would not happen had it been already refined.
 
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