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Thread: Blaming the chaff for being chaff

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    TOL Legend genuineoriginal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Winston Smith View Post
    Someone chooses to be evil. Ok, before they chose to be evil, were they evil? Good? Neutral?
    Each one of us living people is somewhere on our path through life.
    A few of us have chosen to walk on a purely righteous path.
    A few of us have chosen to walk on a purely wicked path.
    Most of us wander back and forth between a righteous path and a wicked path and think we are doing good.
    As long as we live, there will always be a way to change our path from a wicked path to a righteous path and from a righteous path to a wicked path.
    Every day we face hundreds of choices on which path to walk on and it is where we are at the end of our lives that determines our ultimate destination.
    Learn to read what is written.

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    The people who are supposed to be experts and who claim to understand the science are precisely the people who are blind to the evidence.
    ~ Dr Freeman Dyson

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    Quote Originally Posted by genuineoriginal View Post
    Each one of us living people is somewhere on our path through life.
    A few of us have chosen to walk on a purely righteous path.
    A few of us have chosen to walk on a purely wicked path.
    Most of us wander back and forth between a righteous path and a wicked path and think we are doing good.
    As long as we live, there will always be a way to change our path from a wicked path to a righteous path and from a righteous path to a wicked path.
    Every day we face hundreds of choices on which path to walk on and it is where we are at the end of our lives that determines our ultimate destination.
    So consider the person who made the bad choice. What made them do that?

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    TOL Legend genuineoriginal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Winston Smith View Post
    So consider the person who made the bad choice. What made them do that?
    Why are you trying to make the person who made "the bad choice" into a victim of some external force when the person had the free-will to make either "the bad choice" or "a good choice" at many points in the process of making that choice?
    Learn to read what is written.

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    Quote Originally Posted by genuineoriginal View Post
    Why are you trying to make the person who made "the bad choice" into a victim of some external force when the person had the free-will to make either "the bad choice" or "a good choice" at many points in the process of making that choice?
    I'm not trying to do anything. You're utterly wrong about that so maybe it will save time and energy to not try to read my mind.

    So is it your answer, then, that the person decided themselves to make the wrong choice? I mean that's pretty much how I imagined it. I wasn't picturing anyone holding them at gun point.

    And so there they are deciding to make the wrong decision. What would you say led up to that? Why did they make that choice?

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    Super Moderator JudgeRightly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Winston Smith View Post
    Why did they make that choice?
    Because they had the ability to, and decided to make that choice in that way.

    That's it.

    Quit obfuscating and make your argument already.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Winston Smith View Post
    I'm not trying to do anything. You're utterly wrong about that so maybe it will save time and energy to not try to read my mind.
    You made the bad choice of hiding your agenda, what made you make that bad choice?

    Quote Originally Posted by Winston Smith View Post
    So is it your answer, then, that the person decided themselves to make the wrong choice? I mean that's pretty much how I imagined it. I wasn't picturing anyone holding them at gun point.

    And so there they are deciding to make the wrong decision. What would you say led up to that?
    You seem to have missed it, even though it was in my post.
    Here it is again, and I highlighted the relevant point that answers your question about what led up to that choice.
    Quote Originally Posted by genuineoriginal View Post
    the person had the free-will to make either "the bad choice" or "a good choice" at many points in the process of making that choice

    Quote Originally Posted by Winston Smith View Post
    Why did they make that choice?
    Making a bad choice usually comes from making a series of small choices that leads up to the bad choice.
    And don't try to make this into another version of Zeno's Dichotomy paradox.
    Spoiler

    Dichotomy paradox
    That which is in locomotion must arrive at the half-way stage before it arrives at the goal.
    — as recounted by Aristotle, Physics VI:9, 239b10
    Suppose Homer wishes to walk to the end of a path. Before he can get there, he must get halfway there. Before he can get halfway there, he must get a quarter of the way there. Before traveling a quarter, he must travel one-eighth; before an eighth, one-sixteenth; and so on.
    This description requires one to complete an infinite number of tasks, which Zeno maintains is an impossibility.


    Making a bad choice is usually the end result of a series of small choices, most of which are neither good or bad, but these choices can lead the person to a point on his path where the bad choice holds more appeal to the person than a good choice.

    That is why Paul told people to take every thought captive and think on good things.

    2 Corinthians 10:5
    5 Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ;



    Philippians 4:8
    8 Finally, brethren, whatsoever things are true, whatsoever things are honest, whatsoever things are just, whatsoever things are pure, whatsoever things are lovely, whatsoever things are of good report; if there be any virtue, and if there be any praise, think on these things.

    Learn to read what is written.

    _____
    The people who are supposed to be experts and who claim to understand the science are precisely the people who are blind to the evidence.
    ~ Dr Freeman Dyson

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    Quote Originally Posted by genuineoriginal View Post
    snipped
    Right, they had the free will to choose. So why did they choose the way they did? They made some small decisions, didn't capture their thoughts, etc. But you didn't. You made the right choice.

    What would you say caused you to end up making the right choice and the other guy to end up making the wrong choice (which of course means, why did that guy do all those things you talked about that led up to the wrong choice, but you didn't)? He did one thing with his thoughts (by dint of having the free will to do so) and you did something else? What could be different about you two?

    Thanks.

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    Super Moderator JudgeRightly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Winston Smith View Post
    Right, they had the free will to choose. So why did they choose the way they did? They made some small decisions, didn't capture their thoughts, etc. But you didn't. You made the right choice.

    What would you say caused you to end up making the right choice and the other guy to end up making the wrong choice (which of course means, why did that guy do all those things you talked about that led up to the wrong choice, but you didn't)? He did one thing with his thoughts (by dint of having the free will to do so) and you did something else? What could be different about you two?

    Thanks.
    Make your argument already, WS.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Winston Smith View Post
    He did one thing with his thoughts (by dint of having the free will to do so) and you did something else? What could be different about you two?
    You seem to be trying to make the person making the choice into a victim of external forces instead of a self-motivated agent who makes a free-will choice.
    Learn to read what is written.

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    The people who are supposed to be experts and who claim to understand the science are precisely the people who are blind to the evidence.
    ~ Dr Freeman Dyson

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    Quote Originally Posted by genuineoriginal View Post
    You seem to be trying to make the person making the choice into a victim of external forces instead of a self-motivated agent who makes a free-will choice.
    Nope. I think I said the phrase "free will choice" like 9 times. So do you have an answer or... if you don't that's fine. I don't, either.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Winston Smith View Post
    Nope. I think I said the phrase "free will choice" like 9 times. So do you have an answer or... if you don't that's fine. I don't, either.
    Quote Originally Posted by JudgeRightly View Post
    Make your argument already, WS.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Winston Smith View Post
    Ok. Suppose you ask someone "Was Jesus a real person or just made up?" and that person says, "Welp, I have to say I just don't know, I've never been able to figure that one out".

    What do you say is going to happen to that person?
    Artie?

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    Quote Originally Posted by ok doser View Post
    Artie?
    Doesn’t even sound like him.

    Tried and waited then got tired, that's about it

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    Quote Originally Posted by annabenedetti View Post
    Doesn’t even sound like him.
    Yes and no - and this topic is one he could post obsessively about

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    Quote Originally Posted by ok doser View Post
    Yes and no - and this topic is one he could post obsessively about
    Nope. He wouldn’t say “welp,” for starters, but there’s so much more.

    Tried and waited then got tired, that's about it

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