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Thread: The Politically Incorrect Truth About American Indians

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    LIFETIME MEMBER aCultureWarrior's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jgarden View Post

    21 And they utterly destroyed all that was in the city, both man and woman, young and old, and ox, and sheep, and ***, with the edge of the sword ...

    24 And they burnt the city with fire, and all that was therein: only the silver, and the gold, and the vessels of brass and of iron, they put into the treasury of the house of the Lord ...


    ******************************************

    The Iroquois were not operating under the influence of the Word of God, what's the Israelites excuse?
    Now that we've established that many of the American Indians were sadistic baby murderers, jgarden wants to talk about the Israelites.

    I don't want to stray off topic, but will do so because I was recently thinking about the similarities between the Canaanites and the various barbaric Indian tribes.

    I'd read that the reason the Israelites wiped out the cannibalistic (amongst other things) Canaanites (women and children included along with the men), was because the women were just as evil as the men. There was no means to take care of the young children, thus they too were killed knowing that they would spend eternity with God (it's that 'age of accountability' thing from the Bible).

    When I read about the slaughter of an entire Indian village in retaliation for the sadistic murders of a family by Col. John Chivington, the story of the Canaanites came to mind.
    The very long history of Donald Trump's pro homosexual and transgender activism, before and during his Presidency, can be found on page 141, post # 2113 and #2114.
    http://theologyonline.com/showthread...=1#post5336963
    http://theologyonline.com/showthread...=1#post5336964

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    Quote Originally Posted by annabenedetti View Post
    "On the mainland of America, the Wampanoags of Massasoit and King Philip had vanished, along with the Chesapeakes, the Chickahominys, and the Potomacs of the great Powhatan confederacy. (Only Pocahontas was remembered.) Scattered or reduced to remnants were the Pequots, Montauks, Nanticokes. Machapungas, Catawbas, Cheraws, Miamis, Hurons, Eries, Mohawks, Senecas, and Mohegans. (Only Uncas was remembered.) Their musical names remained forever fixed on the American land, but their bones were forgotten in a thousand burned villages or lost in forests fast disappearing before the axes of twenty million invaders. Already the once sweet-watered streams, most of which bore Indian names, were clouded with silt and the wastes of man; the very earth was being ravaged and squandered. To the Indians it seemed that these Europeans hated everything in nature—the living forests and their birds and beasts, the grassy glades, the water, the soil, and the air itself."

    Dee Brown, Bury My Heart at Wounded Knee: An Indian History of the American West
    And now...for the rest of the story:

    It was common for Indians such as the Choctaw, Iroquois, and Pawnee to clear land for farming by cutting and burning forests. Once cleared, fields were farmed extensively until soil fertility was depleted; then they cleared new lands and started the process again (see White and Cronon 1988, 419-21).
    From New England to the Southwest, wherever Indian populations were dense and farming was intense, deforestation was common. Indeed, the mysterious departure of the Anasazi from the canyons of southeastern Utah in the thirteenth century may have been due to depletion of wood supplies used for fuel (see Ambler 1989).
    Similarly, where game was plentiful, Indians used only the choicest cuts and left the rest.
    When buffalo were herded over cliffs, tons of meat were left to rot or to be eaten by scavengers (see Baden, Stroup, and Thurman 1981).
    Samuel Hearne, a fur trader near Hudson’s Bay, recorded in his journal in the 1770s that the Chipewayan Indians would slaughter large numbers of caribou and muskox, eat only a few tongues, and leave the rest to rot.

    Read more: https://www.perc.org/1996/07/01/cons...merican-style/
    The very long history of Donald Trump's pro homosexual and transgender activism, before and during his Presidency, can be found on page 141, post # 2113 and #2114.
    http://theologyonline.com/showthread...=1#post5336963
    http://theologyonline.com/showthread...=1#post5336964

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    Quote Originally Posted by aCultureWarrior View Post
    Now that we've established that many of the American Indians were sadistic baby murderers, jgarden wants to talk about the Israelites.

    I don't want to stray off topic, but will do so because I was recently thinking about the similarities between the Canaanites and the various barbaric Indian tribes.

    I'd read that the reason the Israelites wiped out the cannibalistic (amongst other things) Canaanites (women and children included along with the men), was because the women were just as evil as the men. There was no means to take care of the young children, thus they too were killed knowing that they would spend eternity with God (it's that 'age of accountability' thing from the Bible).

    When I read about the slaughter of an entire Indian village in retaliation for the sadistic murders of a family by Col. John Chivington, the story of the Canaanites came to mind.
    Apparently when the opposition commits mass murder they're "evil," "barbaric" and "sadistic," but when the "home team" are guilty of the same acts they're portrayed as actually doing some of their victims a favour, because they "were killed knowing that they would spend eternity with God (it's that 'age of accountability' thing from the Bible)."

  4. The Following User Says Thank You to jgarden For Your Post:

    annabenedetti (September 6th, 2019)

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    Quote Originally Posted by jgarden View Post
    Apparently when the opposition commits mass murder they're "evil" and "sadistic," but when the "home team" are guilty of the same acts they're actually doing some of their victims a favour because they "were killed knowing that they would spend eternity with God (it's that 'age of accountability' thing from the Bible)."
    I'm wondering where in his Bible it says the Canaanite children would "spend eternity with God?"

    Tried and waited then got tired, that's about it

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    Quote Originally Posted by annabenedetti View Post
    I'm wondering where in his Bible it says the Canaanite children would "spend eternity with God?"
    All the inhabitants of Jericho are referred to in Joshua 5:17-18 as "the accursed thing" that must be destroyed "lest ye make yourselves accursed!"

    The Scriptures don't differentiate between the relative "accuresedness" of those men, women and children, and there is no mention of Canaanite children "spend(ing) Eternity with God1"
    Last edited by jgarden; September 6th, 2019 at 08:35 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jgarden View Post
    All the inhabitants of Jericho, including the children, are referred to in Joshua 5 as "the accursed things!"

    A site he uses (iirc), gotreligion, has this to say:

    Probably the most difficult part of these commands from God is that God ordered the death of children and infants as well. Why would God order the death of innocent children? (1) Children are not innocent (Psalm 51:5; 58:3). (2) These children would have likely grown up as adherents to the evil religions and practices of their parents. (3) These children would naturally have grown up resentful of the Israelites and later sought to avenge the “unjust” treatment of their parents.



    Tried and waited then got tired, that's about it

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    Quote Originally Posted by jgarden View Post
    Apparently when the opposition commits mass murder they're "evil," "barbaric" and "sadistic," but when the "home team" are guilty of the same acts they're portrayed as actually doing some of their victims a favour, because they "were killed knowing that they would spend eternity with God (it's that 'age of accountability' thing from the Bible)."
    If you're referring to the Israelites and the killing of the barbaric Canaanites as the "home team" and attempting to make some comparison with the American Indian, unlike the American Indian, I'm not aware of the Jews disemboweling infant children in front of their mother, all the while mockingly laughing at the mother and her anguish.
    The very long history of Donald Trump's pro homosexual and transgender activism, before and during his Presidency, can be found on page 141, post # 2113 and #2114.
    http://theologyonline.com/showthread...=1#post5336963
    http://theologyonline.com/showthread...=1#post5336964

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    Quote Originally Posted by aCultureWarrior View Post
    Thank you for pointing out what was already addressed in the OP: That there were atrocities committed by whites/non Indians as well.

    It appears that the US Government frowned upon the actions of Chivington:

    Regarding the author of the book in your OP, and Chivington, and apparently invented quotes, this adds some interesting context:

    I later emailed Byron Strom and asked if he had seen the program and showed him some of the questionable quotes. His answer was pretty shocking. He said that the “quotes” came from a book by Bruce Cutler called “The Massacre at Sand Creek: Narrative Voices (American Indian Literature and Critical Studies Series).” Referred to as a novel in its review by Publishers Weekly, this book is also dubbed a “poetic version of the tragedy.” In other words, it is fact-based but it is fiction.

    Interestingly, Byron said he first saw the misquotes in the work of Gregory Michno, the Rush Limbaugh of Colorado history, whose views on the Sand Creek massacre run contrary to those of most historians and experts on Sand Creek. In Michno’s universe, peace chiefs such as Black Kettle were actually trying to make trouble and the white men who negotiated with the tribes and later advocated for them – men such as Ned Wynkoop, Sam Tappan, and Silas Soule – were actually the real villains of this horrific event. In his book, “Battle of Sand Creek: The Military Perspective,” Michno is a Chivington apologist and works hard to make Wynkoop, Soule and the others look like incompetents and immoral characters.

    In “Battle of Sand Creek: The Military Perspective,” Michno uses several quotes from Cutler as real Soule quotes. For example, on page 267, he quotes from a supposed letter that Soule wrote on April 15, 1865 to his mother after his wedding, which took place April 1, 1865. In fact, the last letter Soule wrote to his mother was in January of 1865, in which he told her about the women and children who had been scalped at Sand Creek. This supposed letter that Michno quotes can be traced directly back to Cutler’s novel (which can be found online on google books).

    A shorter and shockingly acerbic version of Michno’s views can be found online on historynet.com in his article “Sand Creek Massacre: The Real Villains,” Published Online: June 12, 2006. (http://www.historynet.com/sand-creek...l-villains.htm). In this article, Michno again uses the Cutler quotes as real quotes from real Silas Soule letters . . . .

    The Tears in the Sand documentary, despite misquoting Soule’s letters, did not change the essence of who Soule was. However, in the case of Michno, his article and his book are full of un-footnoted and poorly-researched accusations against Soule and others who decried what happened at Sand Creek.

    Tried and waited then got tired, that's about it

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    Up next: the sexual "appetites" of the American Indian. After all, a thread about the American Indian wouldn't be complete without talk of the "two spirit identity".

    The very long history of Donald Trump's pro homosexual and transgender activism, before and during his Presidency, can be found on page 141, post # 2113 and #2114.
    http://theologyonline.com/showthread...=1#post5336963
    http://theologyonline.com/showthread...=1#post5336964

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    Quote Originally Posted by annabenedetti View Post
    Regarding the author of the book in your OP, and Chivington, and apparently invented quotes, this adds some interesting context:

    I later emailed Byron Strom and asked if he had seen the program and showed him some of the questionable quotes. His answer was pretty shocking. He said that the “quotes” came from a book by Bruce Cutler called “The Massacre at Sand Creek: Narrative Voices (American Indian Literature and Critical Studies Series).” Referred to as a novel in its review by Publishers Weekly, this book is also dubbed a “poetic version of the tragedy.” In other words, it is fact-based but it is fiction.

    Interestingly, Byron said he first saw the misquotes in the work of Gregory Michno, the Rush Limbaugh of Colorado history, whose views on the Sand Creek massacre run contrary to those of most historians and experts on Sand Creek. In Michno’s universe, peace chiefs such as Black Kettle were actually trying to make trouble and the white men who negotiated with the tribes and later advocated for them – men such as Ned Wynkoop, Sam Tappan, and Silas Soule – were actually the real villains of this horrific event. In his book, “Battle of Sand Creek: The Military Perspective,” Michno is a Chivington apologist and works hard to make Wynkoop, Soule and the others look like incompetents and immoral characters.

    In “Battle of Sand Creek: The Military Perspective,” Michno uses several quotes from Cutler as real Soule quotes. For example, on page 267, he quotes from a supposed letter that Soule wrote on April 15, 1865 to his mother after his wedding, which took place April 1, 1865. In fact, the last letter Soule wrote to his mother was in January of 1865, in which he told her about the women and children who had been scalped at Sand Creek. This supposed letter that Michno quotes can be traced directly back to Cutler’s novel (which can be found online on google books).

    A shorter and shockingly acerbic version of Michno’s views can be found online on historynet.com in his article “Sand Creek Massacre: The Real Villains,” Published Online: June 12, 2006. (http://www.historynet.com/sand-creek...l-villains.htm). In this article, Michno again uses the Cutler quotes as real quotes from real Silas Soule letters . . . .

    The Tears in the Sand documentary, despite misquoting Soule’s letters, did not change the essence of who Soule was. However, in the case of Michno, his article and his book are full of un-footnoted and poorly-researched accusations against Soule and others who decried what happened at Sand Creek.
    "ACultureWarrior" keeps moving the moral goalposts to justify the persecution of those "nasty" Aboriginals who aren't conducting themselves in accordance with his rules - rules that shift with each successive post!

    The fact that these accounts were often written by those who harboured no sympathy for the plight of the North American Indian and no interest in verifying the more salacious events only provides ammunition for a zealot like "aCultureWarrior" to promote his own agenda!

    I'm surprised that "aCultureWarrior" hasn't concocted a narrative that all those "evil" Indians must be "gay" - he's used every other accusation in his arsenal to demonize them!
    Last edited by jgarden; September 6th, 2019 at 11:44 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by annabenedetti View Post
    Regarding the author of the book in your OP, and Chivington, and apparently invented quotes, this adds some interesting context:
    Ahhh, political correctness makes yet another appearance in the thread.

    In essence the American Indian really wasn't barbaric, and just sat around petting baby buffalo and stringing beads all day.

    Sorry, but there is plenty of evidence showing otherwise; my post on page 1 talking about historian Francis Parkman is one example.
    The very long history of Donald Trump's pro homosexual and transgender activism, before and during his Presidency, can be found on page 141, post # 2113 and #2114.
    http://theologyonline.com/showthread...=1#post5336963
    http://theologyonline.com/showthread...=1#post5336964

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    It appears that more evidence is needed:

    The Mythological Native American
    Book Review by Peter J. La Grasse

    George Feldman's book is a serious historical study of the history of numerous tribes of American Indians throughout the United States from 100 BC to Custer's defeat at Little Big Horn in 1876 and Apache Geronimo's surrender in 1886. This book does not attempt to be an exhaustive history of all these tribes or nations, as to their specific land occupancy at one time or another, or necessarily their migration, or specific military actions, but instead snapshots of specific incidents. These snapshots are developed in detail to show the practices of genocide, human sacrifice, decapitation and corpse mutilation and cannibalism as practiced by Indian against Indian, American against Indian and visa versa, and finally the U.S. Army against the Indian.
    Feldman's documentation of unspeakable atrocities, often presented verbatim from contemporary sources, diminishes to zero any doubt as to the truth of his assertions. The Native American Warrior, 1500-1890, by Chris Mc Nab (St. Martins Press, N.Y. 2010) further analyzes battle tactics of the American Indian. While Mc Nab concedes that the Indian was brutal in battle, and killed all including women and children, he cautions that some contemporary reports were distorted to fuel animosity against the Indians. Feldman fully develops his case and evaluates sources to avoid sensational distortions. He establishes the fact that brutal warfare was a well-engrained cultural trait from the earliest times in America:
    "Long before the white European knew a North American continent existed, Indians of the Northern Plains were massacring entire villages,... at least five hundred men, women and children were killed—and not just killed, but mutilated. Hands and feet were cut off, each body's head was scalped, the remains were left scattered around the village, which was burned... Other excavations...also indicate that warfare in the plains was a way of life in the pre-history era of Middle America." (p. xv)

    https://prfamerica.org/bookreviews/B...eAmerican.html
    The very long history of Donald Trump's pro homosexual and transgender activism, before and during his Presidency, can be found on page 141, post # 2113 and #2114.
    http://theologyonline.com/showthread...=1#post5336963
    http://theologyonline.com/showthread...=1#post5336964

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    Quote Originally Posted by annabenedetti View Post
    A site he uses (iirc), gotreligion, has this to say:

    Probably the most difficult part of these commands from God is that God ordered the death of children and infants as well. Why would God order the death of innocent children? (1) Children are not innocent (Psalm 51:5; 58:3). (2) These children would have likely grown up as adherents to the evil religions and practices of their parents. (3) These children would naturally have grown up resentful of the Israelites and later sought to avenge the “unjust” treatment of their parents.


    During the War of 1812 when the Americans were storming Queenston Heights on the Canadian side of Niagara Gorge, the British military leaders were dismayed to find that their Iroquois allies didn't share their European code of honor when they continued killing US troops - despite their attempts to surrender!

    The Iroquois response was consistent with their counterparts throughout the world who viewed conflict as a fight to the death - with no quarter expected or given!

    In the martial code of the Japanese warrior, death is preferable to the shame associated with being taken prisoner which goes a long way in explaining the kamikazes, ritual suicide, the bonsai charges and their lack of respect for those who allowed themselves to be taken prisoner!

    Societies living a subsistent existence where life was precarious at best, the margin of error that separated life from death was a narrow one, leaving little room for allowing one's enemies and their families a second chance to exact revenge!

    Ideas concerning mercy, chivalry and respect for non-combatants are luxuries that were beyond the understanding of most primitive societies!

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    Quote Originally Posted by jgarden View Post
    … British military leaders were dismayed to find that their Iroquois allies didn't share their European code of honor when they continued killing US troops - despite their attempts to surrender!

    The Iroquois response was consistent with their counterparts throughout the world who viewed conflict as a fight to the death - with no quarter expected or given!
    But then it's really not a "fight" when your opponent lays down his weapons and kneels at your feet for mercy is it?

    In any event, thanks for making the case even stronger showing that many American Indian tribes were nothing but barbarians, in this case murdering unarmed soldiers who surrendered.

    Murder seemed to be a huge part of many of the American Indian tribes 'culture'. As we'd seen in earlier posts, many tribes committed atrocities against other Indians long before the European settlers even set foot on American soil.

    In the article entitled:

    The Real-Life Tontos: How Comanche Indians Butchered Babies, Roasted Enemies Alive and Would Ride 1,000 Miles to Wipe Out One Family

    the author shows the barbarianism of the Comanches in their treatment of captive white settlers:

    But the Comanche tribe’s furious response knew no bounds. When the Texans suggested they swap the Comanche prisoners for their captives, the Indians tortured every one of those captives to death instead.
    ‘One by one, the children and young women were pegged out naked beside the camp fire,’ according to a contemporary account. ‘They were skinned, sliced, and horribly mutilated, and finally burned alive by vengeful women determined to wring the last shriek and convulsion from their agonised bodies. Matilda Lockhart’s six-year-old sister was among these unfortunates who died screaming under the high plains moon.’


    https://www.amren.com/news/2013/08/t...ut-one-family/
    The very long history of Donald Trump's pro homosexual and transgender activism, before and during his Presidency, can be found on page 141, post # 2113 and #2114.
    http://theologyonline.com/showthread...=1#post5336963
    http://theologyonline.com/showthread...=1#post5336964

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    On a positive note: Like all individuals are able to do, many American Indians have left their pagan ways behind them and found freedom in Christ:


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W8EiqWc3efc
    The very long history of Donald Trump's pro homosexual and transgender activism, before and during his Presidency, can be found on page 141, post # 2113 and #2114.
    http://theologyonline.com/showthread...=1#post5336963
    http://theologyonline.com/showthread...=1#post5336964

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