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Thread: Hurricane Dorian Becomes the 5th Atlantic Category 5 in 4 Years

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Barbarian View Post
    Not bad for a science that was back then, still in its infancy. We know a lot more about it now. But the fact that Hansen understood the basic forcings well enough to make a remarkably accurate prediction even 31 years ago, is compelling evidence.
    Compelling evidence of what?
    All of my ancestors are human.
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    That explains why your an idiot.
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    Something that was SPOKEN OF since the world began CANNOT be the SAME thing as something KEPT SECRET since the world began.

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    Barbarian observes:
    Not bad for a science that was back then, still in its infancy. We know a lot more about it now. But the fact that Hansen understood the basic forcings well enough to make a remarkably accurate prediction even 31 years ago, is compelling evidence.

    Quote Originally Posted by Right Divider View Post
    Compelling evidence of what?
    That the model was an accurate representation of the the process. Even then, it was able to accurately call global temperatures thirty years later. Of course, the models are much better now, albeit that like all models, they are never perfect. The models, for example, slightly underestimated the amount of warming we're seeing now.
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Barbarian View Post
    Barbarian observes:
    Not bad for a science that was back then, still in its infancy. We know a lot more about it now. But the fact that Hansen understood the basic forcings well enough to make a remarkably accurate prediction even 31 years ago, is compelling evidence.

    That the model was an accurate representation of the the process. Even then, it was able to accurately call global temperatures thirty years later. Of course, the models are much better now, albeit that like all models, they are never perfect. The models, for example, slightly underestimated the amount of warming we're seeing now.
    So, once again, evidence of what?

    That the global climate changes and that it is currently warming? So what?

    From historical data we can tell that there were times in the past that were both much colder and much warmer than now... woopee.
    All of my ancestors are human.
    Quote Originally Posted by Squeaky View Post
    That explains why your an idiot.
    Quote Originally Posted by God's Truth View Post
    Father figure, Son figure, and Holy Spirit figure.
    Col 2:9 (AKJV/PCE)
    (2:9) For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

    1Tim 4:10 (AKJV/PCE)
    (4:10) For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.

    Something that was SPOKEN OF since the world began CANNOT be the SAME thing as something KEPT SECRET since the world began.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Right Divider View Post
    So, once again, evidence of what?
    That carbon dioxide levels in the atmosphere cause warming. Hansen's prediction, based on CO2 levels, accurately called global temperatures thirty years later.

    That the global climate changes
    That it changes when carbon dioxide levels change.

    and that it is currently warming?
    That it's warming precisely as predicted, based on increasing carbon dioxide levels.

    So what?
    It verifies the prediction first made in the late 1800s, by Svante Arrhenius, that increases in carbon dioxide levels would increase global temperatures.

    From historical data we can tell that there were times in the past that were both much colder and much warmer than now...
    But now, we can predict such changes, because we know the most important factor in changing them.

    woopee.
    Well, sort of. Knowing what causes it, is not the same thing as figuring out how to best deal with it. That's the real issue.
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Barbarian View Post
    That carbon dioxide levels in the atmosphere cause warming. Hansen's prediction, based on CO2 levels, accurately called global temperatures thirty years later.

    That it changes when carbon dioxide levels change.

    That it's warming precisely as predicted, based on increasing carbon dioxide levels.

    It verifies the prediction first made in the late 1800s, by Svante Arrhenius, that increases in carbon dioxide levels would increase global temperatures.
    So before cars and airplanes, etc. he was worried about man-made impacts of increased CO2 emissions? Was this based on horse flatulence?

    Quote Originally Posted by The Barbarian View Post
    But now, we can predict such changes, because we know the most important factor in changing them.
    That is certainly what some people claim. There are many other major factors that you brush aside so easily.

    Quote Originally Posted by The Barbarian View Post
    Well, sort of. Knowing what causes it, is not the same thing as figuring out how to best deal with it. That's the real issue.
    CO2 is plant food and plants like it along with warmer climates. So why all the fuss? You don't like plants?
    All of my ancestors are human.
    Quote Originally Posted by Squeaky View Post
    That explains why your an idiot.
    Quote Originally Posted by God's Truth View Post
    Father figure, Son figure, and Holy Spirit figure.
    Col 2:9 (AKJV/PCE)
    (2:9) For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

    1Tim 4:10 (AKJV/PCE)
    (4:10) For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.

    Something that was SPOKEN OF since the world began CANNOT be the SAME thing as something KEPT SECRET since the world began.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Right Divider View Post
    So before cars and airplanes, etc. he was worried about man-made impacts of increased CO2 emissions? Was this based on horse flatulence?
    I thought it was cows that gave off methane...

    That is certainly what some people claim. There are many other major factors that you brush aside so easily.

    CO2 is plant food and plants like it along with warmer climates. So why all the fuss? You don't like plants?


    A liberal that doesn't like plants!

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    Quote Originally Posted by JudgeRightly View Post
    I thought it was cows that gave off methane...
    I was thinking horse and buggy before the cars....

    Quote Originally Posted by JudgeRightly View Post


    A liberal that doesn't like plants!
    Exactly, more CO2... more trees to hug.
    All of my ancestors are human.
    Quote Originally Posted by Squeaky View Post
    That explains why your an idiot.
    Quote Originally Posted by God's Truth View Post
    Father figure, Son figure, and Holy Spirit figure.
    Col 2:9 (AKJV/PCE)
    (2:9) For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

    1Tim 4:10 (AKJV/PCE)
    (4:10) For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.

    Something that was SPOKEN OF since the world began CANNOT be the SAME thing as something KEPT SECRET since the world began.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Right Divider View Post
    I was thinking horse and buggy before the cars....


    Exactly, more CO2... more trees to hug.
    Bob E always said that to get a liberal to care about something, frame it in such a way that it shows how negatively it will affect nature.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JudgeRightly View Post
    Bob E always said that to get a liberal to care about something, frame it in such a way that it shows how negatively it will affect nature.
    And by "nature", that means everything but humans.
    All of my ancestors are human.
    Quote Originally Posted by Squeaky View Post
    That explains why your an idiot.
    Quote Originally Posted by God's Truth View Post
    Father figure, Son figure, and Holy Spirit figure.
    Col 2:9 (AKJV/PCE)
    (2:9) For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

    1Tim 4:10 (AKJV/PCE)
    (4:10) For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.

    Something that was SPOKEN OF since the world began CANNOT be the SAME thing as something KEPT SECRET since the world began.

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    Barbarian observes:
    It verifies the prediction first made in the late 1800s, by Svante Arrhenius, that increases in carbon dioxide levels would increase global temperatures.

    Quote Originally Posted by Right Divider View Post
    So before cars and airplanes, etc. he was worried about man-made impacts of increased CO2 emissions?
    No. He merely predicted that major increases in carbon dioxide in the atmosphere would warm it up. Turns out, he was right.

    Was this based on horse flatulence?
    Probably, you should have read what Arrenius wrote about it, before your imagination ran on ahead of your knowledge.

    Barbarian, regarding Hansen's accurate prediction 31 years in advance:
    But now, we can predict such changes, because we know the most important factor in changing them.

    That is certainly what some people claim.
    What matters is that Hansen demonstrated the fact. Using only carbon dioxide levels, he correctly called the rate of warming, decades in advance.

    There are many other major factors that you brush aside so easily.
    You were misled about that. For example, Hanson's model assumed at least one major volcanic eruption (which would cool the atmosphere). And that happened. There were at least 3. But as you see, they had much less effect than rising carbon dioxide.

    Likewise, a reduction in solar output would have an effect. We are going through a period of lower solar output now. The reason it's getting warmer, rather than cooler, is that the effect of carbon dioxide is much stronger than the historical variations in solar output.

    CO2 is plant food and plants like it along with warmer climates.
    That's another issue:

    As Carbon Dioxide Levels Rise, Major Crops Are Losing Nutrients
    Scientists have noticed that in many kinds of plants, higher CO2 produces bigger crops. That sounds like a good thing.

    But there's a problem. Bigger doesn't necessarily mean better. And while they're still testing what this means for coffee's quality, scientists have seen that other crops have lost some of their nutritional value under higher CO2 conditions.

    One example is rice, a primary food source for more than 2 billion people.

    Ziska recently teamed up with an international group of scientists to study whether high CO2 had an effect on the rice's nutrition. "Was it changing not just how the plant grew, but the quality of the plant?" he asked.

    They tested how 18 different kinds of rice responded to CO2 levels that are projected by the end of the century, based on conservative estimates, Ziska says.

    The technique they used, called free-air CO2 enrichment, allowed them to grow the rice and add CO2 to the air immediately surrounding the plants using a big hoop in the middle of a field, Ziska explains. They did this over multiple years in facilities in Japan and China.

    And the effect was clear: Higher CO2 reduced multiple key measures of rice's nutritional value. Across the different types of rice, they observed average decreases of 10 percent in protein, 8 percent in iron and 5 percent in zinc. Four important B vitamins decreased between 13 and 30 percent.

    ...

    Higher carbon dioxide is not just affecting rice. There's evidence that the scope of this is much bigger. Harvard's Sam Myers, who studies the impact of climate change on nutrition, has tested CO2's impact on the protein, iron and zinc of a number of staple crops using the same free-air CO2 enrichment technique.

    "Most of the food crops that we consume showed these nutrient reductions," Myers says.

    https://www.npr.org/sections/thesalt...sing-nutrients

    So why all the fuss?
    The majority of the world's human population depends on these crops to live. Particularly in poor nations, this is a major concern.

    It helps if you know something about whatever it is you want to talk about.
    Last edited by The Barbarian; September 4th, 2019 at 05:52 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Barbarian View Post
    Probably, you should have read what Arrenius wrote about it, before your imagination ran on ahead of your knowledge.
    My imagination is nothing compared to a guy that thinks that mistakes are improvements.
    All of my ancestors are human.
    Quote Originally Posted by Squeaky View Post
    That explains why your an idiot.
    Quote Originally Posted by God's Truth View Post
    Father figure, Son figure, and Holy Spirit figure.
    Col 2:9 (AKJV/PCE)
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    1Tim 4:10 (AKJV/PCE)
    (4:10) For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.

    Something that was SPOKEN OF since the world began CANNOT be the SAME thing as something KEPT SECRET since the world began.

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    Barbarian suggests:
    Probably, you should have read what Arrenius wrote about it, before your imagination ran on ahead of your knowledge.

    Quote Originally Posted by Right Divider View Post
    My imagination is nothing
    You supposed Arrenius was, in the early 19th century, worried about global warming. That's pretty weird.

    compared to a guy that thinks that mistakes are improvements.
    Roy Plunkett, a chemist at DuPont, improperly stored a gas cylinder of tetrafluroethylene and was surprised to find that there was no pressure in the tank. Unscrewing the valve, he discovered an odd white powder; the gas had polymerized into a solid, polytetrafluroethylene.

    We call it "teflon." His mistake proved to be very profitable for DuPont.

    Some thousands of years ago in Asia, there was an odd mistake in DNA replication that changed the way hemoglobin took up oxygen. It allowed the people who inherited it from that person to live at high altitudes without greatly increasing the hemoglobin in their blood (which over time can be damaging). Now we know there were nine mutations that made it healthier for Tibetans to live at such high altitudes.

    Mistakes? Yes. Improvements, definitely.
    Last edited by The Barbarian; September 5th, 2019 at 06:57 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Barbarian View Post
    Mistakes? Yes. Improvements, definitely.
    All of my ancestors are human.
    Quote Originally Posted by Squeaky View Post
    That explains why your an idiot.
    Quote Originally Posted by God's Truth View Post
    Father figure, Son figure, and Holy Spirit figure.
    Col 2:9 (AKJV/PCE)
    (2:9) For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

    1Tim 4:10 (AKJV/PCE)
    (4:10) For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.

    Something that was SPOKEN OF since the world began CANNOT be the SAME thing as something KEPT SECRET since the world began.

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    Barbarian observes:
    Some thousands of years ago in Asia, there was an odd mistake in DNA replication that changed the way hemoglobin took up oxygen. It allowed the people who inherited it from that person to live at high altitudes without greatly increasing the hemoglobin in their blood (which over time can be damaging). Now we know there were nine mutations that made it healthier for Tibetans to live at such high altitudes.
    https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2017...ighest-plateau

    Mistakes? Yes. Improvements, definitely.

    Quote Originally Posted by Right Divider View Post
    If reality seems crazy to you, perhaps that's a revelation in itself.
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Barbarian View Post
    Barbarian observes:
    Some thousands of years ago in Asia, there was an odd mistake in DNA replication that changed the way hemoglobin took up oxygen. It allowed the people who inherited it from that person to live at high altitudes without greatly increasing the hemoglobin in their blood (which over time can be damaging). Now we know there were nine mutations that made it healthier for Tibetans to live at such high altitudes.
    https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2017...ighest-plateau

    Mistakes? Yes. Improvements, definitely.

    If reality seems crazy to you, perhaps that's a revelation in itself.
    Please demonstrate how this sort of "improvement" can turn a simple single-celled animal into a man (and every other type of animal too). Thanks.
    All of my ancestors are human.
    Quote Originally Posted by Squeaky View Post
    That explains why your an idiot.
    Quote Originally Posted by God's Truth View Post
    Father figure, Son figure, and Holy Spirit figure.
    Col 2:9 (AKJV/PCE)
    (2:9) For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

    1Tim 4:10 (AKJV/PCE)
    (4:10) For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.

    Something that was SPOKEN OF since the world began CANNOT be the SAME thing as something KEPT SECRET since the world began.

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