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Thread: 30 Days, A beginning to the end of mass shootings.

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    30 Days, A beginning to the end of mass shootings.

    A beginning to the end mass shootings.

    Patrick Crusius, 21, the eco-terrorist has admitted to the Aug. 3rd 2019 murders in El Paso Texas, he is seen on TV, and anyone who has read his manifesto can easily detect he is not incapacitated by insanity.

    The solution is simple. On September 3rd at 10:30 AM Patrick Crusius is put to death on pay per view with the proceeds going to the victims.

    After just a couple of these executions these senseless murders will abate.

    This is a just outcome as it gives Mr. Crusius plenty of time to repent.

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    Quote Originally Posted by tieman55 View Post
    On September 3rd.
    Why the long wait?
    Where is the evidence for a global flood?
    E≈mc2
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    A good question. The 30 days is a arbitrary time frame, but I think reasonable, as you have to allow for the pay per view to gain the largest possible audience.

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    Quote Originally Posted by tieman55 View Post
    A beginning to the end mass shootings.

    Patrick Crusius, 21, the eco-terrorist has admitted to the Aug. 3rd 2019 murders in El Paso Texas
    Although authorities did not publicly confirm his identity or describe the precise contents of the manifesto, a document posted on the website 8chan about an hour and a half before the rampage spoke about the “invasion” of Latino immigrants and said the writer agreed with the shooter who killed worshipers at a mosque in Christchurch, New Zealand. That document was posted by an anonymous user who posted another document under the file name “P._Crusius.” That file was taken down, and it was not clear what it contained.

    Doesn't sound much like an "ecoterrorist", unless you think it's a synonym for "white nationalist."

    The solution is simple. On September 3rd at 10:30 AM Patrick Crusius is put to death on pay per view with the proceeds going to the victims.

    After just a couple of these executions these senseless murders will abate.
    There's a problem, which might not seem important to you; across the United States there are dozens of people who are alive today only because after being wrongly condemned to death for crimes they didn't commit, they were able to play the appeals process long enough for someone to prove they were innocent.

    How many of them would you be willing to kill, in order to more swiftly kill murderers?

    I'd like to know how many you think would be acceptable. Maybe a percentage?
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    Perhaps we read different manifestos? The one I read, mentioned environmental concerns 3 times more often than anything about Latinos. The manifesto I read never reefers to African Americans or Jews. Yes immigration was a major theme of the manifesto but always in the light of "sustainability" not in reference to race. This is the MO of a eco-terrorist.

    Yes, the fake news and their allies will cast this as white nationalist but if the manifesto is authentic, then it is fake news once again.

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    Quote Originally Posted by tieman55 View Post
    Perhaps we read different manifestos?
    Apparently so. This one...

    posted on the website 8chan about an hour and a half before the rampage spoke about the “invasion” of Latino immigrants and said the writer agreed with the shooter who killed worshipers at a mosque in Christchurch, New Zealand.

    Is clearly by a white nationalist, who did the shooting.

    Yes, the white nationalists and their allies will cast this as ecoterrorism, but if the manifesto is authentic, then they are inventing fake news once again.

    You didn't say how many innocent people you were willing to have killed in order to have more rapid executions. How many do you think would be acceptable?
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    Quote Originally Posted by tieman55 View Post
    Perhaps we read different manifestos? The one I read, mentioned environmental concerns 3 times more often than anything about Latinos. The manifesto I read never reefers to African Americans or Jews. Yes immigration was a major theme of the manifesto but always in the light of "sustainability" not in reference to race. This is the MO of a eco-terrorist.

    Yes, the fake news and their allies will cast this as white nationalist but if the manifesto is authentic, then it is fake news once again.
    Justice is not important to Barbarian. The only thing he cares about is tying everything bad to someone named trump.
    Where is the evidence for a global flood?
    E≈mc2
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    Quote Originally Posted by tieman55 View Post
    A good question. The 30 days is a arbitrary time frame, but I think reasonable, as you have to allow for the pay per view to gain the largest possible audience.
    He should be put to death within 24 hours.

    Put the pressure on.

    30 days? "Eh, I'll repent later."

    Day 30 arrives: "Why do I need to repent? I did nothing wrong!"

    Giving a criminal time to relax allows him to solidify in his mind that he did nothing wrong, because there's no immediate punishment.

    Executing a criminal within 24 hours, while giving him time to repent, also forces him to consider his eternal destination.

    50% of the time when someone is confronted with the reality of their death, they turn to God. The other 50% they turn away.

    God said that he has set out life and death, and to choose. There's no third option.

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Barbarian View Post
    Although authorities did not publicly confirm his identity or describe the precise contents of the manifesto, a document posted on the website 8chan about an hour and a half before the rampage spoke about the “invasion” of Latino immigrants and said the writer agreed with the shooter who killed worshipers at a mosque in Christchurch, New Zealand. That document was posted by an anonymous user who posted another document under the file name “P._Crusius.” That file was taken down, and it was not clear what it contained.

    Doesn't sound much like an "ecoterrorist", unless you think it's a synonym for "white nationalist."



    There's a problem, which might not seem important to you; across the United States there are dozens of people who are alive today only because after being wrongly condemned to death for crimes they didn't commit, they were able to play the appeals process long enough for someone to prove they were innocent.

    How many of them would you be willing to kill, in order to more swiftly kill murderers?

    I'd like to know how many you think would be acceptable. Maybe a percentage?
    Think of how many more would be alive if, instead of coddling the convicted murderers, we put them to death, and instilled fear into the hearts of would-be murderers, deterring them from killing others.

    I imagine there would be THOUSANDS of people alive today just by putting to death a few convicted murderers within 48 hours of them being caught.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JudgeRightly View Post
    Think of how many more would be alive if, instead of coddling the convicted murderers, we put them to death,
    We kill far more murderers than the vast majority of nations. We are just behind China, Iran, Saudi Arabia, Vietnam and Egypt. Is that the company you'd like American to be in?

    Let's see how much good it's doing:

    We're 94th in the world in homicide rates. Which puts us in the top 100 of about 230. Mostly Africa and us. That's the neighborhood you want?

    Well, maybe it's all the states in the US that have banned executions. Let's look at that...



    Again, more homicides in states that kill murderers. consistently more, over a long period of time. Notice that as murder rates have fallen, the difference between death penalty states and non-death penalty states has gotten larger.

    and instilled fear into the hearts of would-be murderers, deterring them from killing others.
    Maybe murderers just aren't very smart, you think?

    I imagine there would be THOUSANDS of people alive today just by putting to death a few convicted murderers within 48 hours of them being caught.
    See above. Turns out, the data show just the opposite. But you didn't say how many innocent people you were willing to have killed in order to have more rapid executions. How many do you think would be acceptable?

    As you know, in Texas alone, there are dozens of people wrongly sentenced to death, who are alive only because they kept appeals going long enough for someone to find that they could not have committed those murders. Would you be O.K. with killing that many innocent people in order to kill murderers more quickly?

    I imagine there would be THOUSANDS of people alive today just by putting to death a few convicted murderers within 48 hours of them being caught.
    I can see you're sincere in your imagining, and I don't doubt you believe what you're saying. Your intention is to save innocent lives, not take them. But reality is found in the facts. If you had your way, more innocent people will die. And mostly by the state taking those lives. How many such killings of innocent people would be acceptable to you, in order to kill murderers more quickly?
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Barbarian View Post
    We kill far more murderers than the vast majority of nations. We are just behind China, Iran, Saudi Arabia, Vietnam and Egypt. Is that the company you'd like American to be in?

    Let's see how much good it's doing:

    We're 94th in the world in homicide rates. Which puts us in the top 100 of about 230. Mostly Africa and us. That's the neighborhood you want?

    Well, maybe it's all the states in the US that have banned executions. Let's look at that...



    Again, more homicides in states that kill murderers. consistently more, over a long period of time. Notice that as murder rates have fallen, the difference between death penalty states and non-death penalty states has gotten larger.



    Maybe murderers just aren't very smart, you think?



    See above. Turns out, the data show just the opposite. But you didn't say how many innocent people you were willing to have killed in order to have more rapid executions. How many do you think would be acceptable?

    As you know, in Texas alone, there are dozens of people wrongly sentenced to death, who are alive only because they kept appeals going long enough for someone to find that they could not have committed those murders. Would you be O.K. with killing that many innocent people in order to kill murderers more quickly?



    I can see you're sincere in your imagining, and I don't doubt you believe what you're saying. Your intention is to save innocent lives, not take them. But reality is found in the facts. If you had your way, more innocent people will die. And mostly by the state taking those lives. How many such killings of innocent people would be acceptable to you, in order to kill murderers more quickly?
    Legan was shot by officers while holding his still smoking gun

    And innocent lives were saved


    Are you worried that perhaps the officers erred, that legan might have been innocent?

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Barbarian View Post
    Well, maybe it's all the states in the US that have banned executions. Let's look at that...
    Again with this useless statistic? You got shown how this is wrong last time. You got lied to. Have a closer look at those states and tell us which ones actually executed anyone, rather than simply having a statute on the books.

    Again, more homicides in states that kill murderers. consistently more, over a long period of time.
    Except that no. You got lied to and you fell for it twice now.

    Turns out, the data show just the opposite.
    Where is the evidence for a global flood?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stripe View Post
    Again with this useless statistic? You got shown how this is wrong last time. You got lied to. Have a closer look at those states and tell us which ones actually executed anyone, rather than simply having a statute on the books.

    Except that no. You got lied to and you fell for it twice now.

    Turns out, the data show just the opposite.
    Deliberately dishonest, elderly confused or just a troll?


    What do you think?

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Barbarian View Post
    We kill far more murderers than the vast majority of nations.
    That's funny, you provide the homicide rates, but don't provide the execution rates.

    Let's see what reality says:

    21 states DO NOT have the death penalty as punishment for crimes.
    https://deathpenaltyinfo.org/state-a...state-by-state

    Of the 29 that DO, 4 of them have a governor-imposed moratorium against it.

    So, in other words, 25 states put people to death, while 25 don't.

    In addition to those states that do not have a death penalty (21 states), of the ones that do, 10 of them have not executed anyone in the past 10 years, and an addition 6 states have not executed anyone in the past five years.
    https://deathpenaltyinfo.org/executi...ent-executions

    In other words, 37 states have not executed anyone in the past 5 years.

    As of June 20, 2019, ONLY TEN PRISONERS have been executed this year, and in only 5 states.
    https://deathpenaltyinfo.org/executions/2019

    For those 10 executions, the average number of years from sentencing to execution is 24.2 years, with the shortest time being 17, and the longest being 34 years.

    In 2018, there were 25 people executed, averaging years from sentence to execution is 24.24 years, shortest 7, longest 38.

    2017, there were 23 executions, average wait time 19.52 years, shortest 8 years, longest 34 years.

    etc....

    In other words, perfectly in line with what God promises in Ecclesiastes 8:11.

    Which is why my argument is NOT just "execute murderers," but instead my argument is "execute murderers within 48 hours."

    We are just behind China, Iran, Saudi Arabia, Vietnam and Egypt. Is that the company you'd like American to be in?
    America's execution rates are NOWHERE NEAR China's, which is literally orders of magnitude higher.

    Let's see how much good it's doing:

    We're 94th in the world in homicide rates. Which puts us in the top 100 of about 230. Mostly Africa and us. That's the neighborhood you want?

    Well, maybe it's all the states in the US that have banned executions. Let's look at that...



    Again, more homicides in states that kill murderers. consistently more, over a long period of time. Notice that as murder rates have fallen, the difference between death penalty states and non-death penalty states has gotten larger.
    The statistics say that homicide rates peaked around 1963, but have only fallen to about HALF of that as measured since 1900.

    In other words, the overall trend since 1900 is still UP in numbers of homicide, even though the rate is decreasing.

    Maybe murderers just aren't very smart, you think?
    People who resort to crime are poor problem solvers.

    See above. Turns out, the data show just the opposite. But you didn't say how many innocent people you were willing to have killed in order to have more rapid executions. How many do you think would be acceptable?

    As you know, in Texas alone, there are dozens of people wrongly sentenced to death, who are alive only because they kept appeals going long enough for someone to find that they could not have committed those murders. Would you be O.K. with killing that many innocent people in order to kill murderers more quickly?
    The goal is to minimize BOTH the number of innocent people killed AND the number of criminals let go.

    The current system only minimizes the former.

    God guarantees that if you execute justice swiftly, there will not be a crime epidemic (such as the one we have today in the US).

    I can see you're sincere in your imagining, and I don't doubt you believe what you're saying.
    Of course I do, because what I'm saying comes directly from the Bible.

    Your intention is to save innocent lives, not take them.
    No, my intention is JUSTICE. That includes BOTH saving innocent lives, AND punishing criminals.

    But reality is found in the facts. If you had your way, more innocent people will die.
    In the short term, that may be possible. And by short term, I'm talking about only a few days.

    Once it's sunk in that criminals would be punished within 48 hours of being caught, and 24 hours of sentencing, crime will drop because the death penalty would once again be an effective deterrent against crime.

    As it stands now, it's lost it's deterrent effect because it takes FAR TOO LONG for a criminal to be executed after sentencing, if they're ever executed.

    And mostly by the state taking those lives. How many such killings of innocent people would be acceptable to you, in order to kill murderers more quickly?
    You're argument is that my system might have innocent people put to death.

    But that argument equally applies to your argument as well, because the system you advocate (or at least defend) ALSO might have innocent people put to death.

    Here's the thing:

    There is NO PERFECT JUSTICE SYSTEM.

    There will ALWAYS be mistakes made, because we live in a fallen world.

    God, in His infinite wisdom, deemed certain punishments appropriate for certain crimes, not a one of those includes locking people up like animals for long periods of time. Instead, the punishments God deemed appropriate could be done swiftly, and they were painful enough that no one would willingly want to be punished with them, which translates to being less willing to commit the crime.

    GOD, not man, said to put criminals to death if they have committed a capital crime.

    GOD, not man, said to flog or maim those who harmed someone physically.

    GOD, not man, said to force criminals to pay restitution to those whom they have harmed financially.

    God, not man, said to keep criminals locked up TEMPORARILY until the criminals could be sentenced, and then afterwards, if they weren't executed, they were to be let go.

    And GOD said all of that even though man is fallen in nature.

    Why?

    Because those punishments are just.

    And get this:

    God never said that lawyers were required, nor did He say that a criminal could appeal his case after sentencing, but rather, He holds the judges accountable for their judgments.

    If I had my way, we would have a system SIMILAR to the one Israel had, and we would have SIMILAR laws (excluding the symbolic ordinances given by God ONLY to Israel).
    Last edited by JudgeRightly; August 5th, 2019 at 09:17 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JudgeRightly View Post
    That's funny, you provide the homicide rates, but don't provide the execution rates.
    Not like it's a secret:
    The 10 countries that execute the most people:
    https://www.businessinsider.com/the-...-people-2016-4

    Just what I told you. Do you really think I'd say it if I couldn't back it up?

    Barbarian observes:
    Let's see what reality says:


    21 states DO NOT have the death penalty as punishment for crimes.
    https://deathpenaltyinfo.org/state-a...state-by-state

    Of the 29 that DO, 4 of them have a governor-imposed moratorium against it.

    So, in other words, 25 states put people to death, while 25 don't.

    In other words, 37 states have not executed anyone in the past 5 years.
    About half of all the executions in 2018 took place in Texas, which carried out 13 death sentences. Tennessee was second with three. Alabama, Florida and Georgia each had two
    https://www.pbs.org/newshour/nation/...d-lows-in-2018

    All of those have an above-average homicide rate.

    In 2018, there were 25 people executed, averaging years from sentence to execution is 24.24 years, shortest 7, longest 38.

    2017, there were 23 executions, average wait time 19.52 years, shortest 8 years, longest 34 years.

    Which is why my argument is NOT just "execute murderers," but instead my argument is "execute murderers within 48 hours."
    As I showed you, the lengthy appeals process saved over 20 innocent people in Texas alone, because they lived long enough for someone to prove they were innocent. You still haven't told me how many of those innocent people you'd be willing to have killed in order to make sure we kill murderers promptly.

    America's execution rates are NOWHERE NEAR China's, which is literally orders of magnitude higher.
    "Well, we aren't as bad as the Chinese government" seems like setting the bar way too low to me.

    The statistics say that homicide rates peaked around 1963, but have only fallen to about HALF of that as measured since 1900.
    Well, not quite...



    As you see, the homicide rates today are much less than the average for the early 1900s. You can always cherry-pick a year to "prove" whatever you like, but the trends are obvious.



    As you see, homicide rates went down as execution rates fell. Which seems to be completely incompatible with your belief that more executions would cut the murder rate. The data show just the opposite.

    In other words, the overall trend since 1900 is still UP in numbers of homicide, even though the rate is decreasing.
    Yes, as population grows, one expects more homicides, if the tendency to commit homicide remains constant. However, the rate of homicides has dropped markedly as the number of executions has fallen. So that's important to keep in mind.

    People who resort to crime are poor problem solvers.
    And have little foresight about consequences, which probably accounts for a lot of the data showing that the death penalty is an ineffective deterrent.

    The goal is to minimize BOTH the number of innocent people killed AND the number of criminals let go.
    So there's a trade-off. How many of those innocent people would it be O.K. to kill in order to kill more murderers?

    A percentage or an absolute number would be find.

    God guarantees that if you execute justice swiftly, there will not be a crime epidemic (such as the one we have today in the US).
    As you have seen, crime rates have dropped markedly in the last three decades.

    Of course I do, because what I'm saying comes directly from the Bible.
    So you're saying it doesn't matter how many innocent people we kill, so long as we make sure we kill as many murderers as possible?

    No, my intention is JUSTICE. That includes BOTH saving innocent lives, AND punishing criminals.
    But your proposal would have killed at least 20 innocent people in Texas alone.

    Once it's sunk in that criminals would be punished within 48 hours of being caught, and 24 hours of sentencing,
    ...the state will kill scores of innocent people who would have been saved under the law today. How is that justice?

    crime will drop because the death penalty would once again be an effective deterrent against crime.
    I know you believe that. But the data show just the opposite result. Killing more people, is nicely correlated with higher murder rates.

    You're argument is that my system might have innocent people put to death.
    No "might" about it. Under your proposal, all of those innocent people would have been put to death by the state.

    But that argument equally applies to your argument as well, because the system you advocate (or at least defend) ALSO might have innocent people put to death.
    The death penalty is justified only if we are absolutely sure we have the right person. As you see, the present standard falls far short of that. And yes, those 20 are only the lucky ones who played the system long enough to be cleared of guilt. We don't know how many others were innocent and failed to be cleared.

    Here's the thing:

    There is NO PERFECT JUSTICE SYSTEM.
    One American Marxist excused executions in the Soviet Union by saying "you can't make an omelette without breaking some eggs." I have to disagree.

    There will ALWAYS be mistakes made, because we live in a fallen world.
    So you're saying it doesn't matter how many innocent people we kill, so long as we execute murderers quickly? You seem very reluctant to face that issue.
    Last edited by JudgeRightly; August 5th, 2019 at 03:26 PM.
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