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Thread: Leviticus 18:22 DOES NOT condemn homosexuality!

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    Leviticus 18:22 DOES NOT condemn homosexuality!

    Leviticus 18:22 in Hebrew says "we et zakar lo tishkav mishkeveh Ishah Towebah hi." In English, it reads "and with a male, you shall not lie with in the beds of a woman. It is an abomination." It's talking about homosexual rape in association with shrine prostitution. In the ancient near east, men would have homosexual sex on the beds of women in worship of their gods. Towebah is used in the sense of ritual uncleanliness. This verse doesn't condemn all homosexual relationships as many Christians suggest.

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    Ummm

    Ok


    are you a homo?

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    No, i'm straight.

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    "and with mankind not lie as with womankind an abomination it is"

    I see nothing about "beds of a woman."

    Spoiler
    Strong's h802

    - Lexical: נָשִׁים
    - Transliteration: ishshah
    - Part of Speech: Noun Feminine
    - Phonetic Spelling: ish-shaw'
    - Definition: wife.
    - Origin: Feminine of 'iysh or 'enowsh; irregular plural, nashiym {naw-sheem'}; a woman (used in the same wide sense as 'enowsh).
    - Usage: (adulter)ess, each, every, female, X many, + none, one, + together, wife, woman. Often unexpressed in English.
    - Translated as (count): the women (96), women (66), his wife (57), wife (56), the wife (41), wives (40), a women (36), a wife (32), and women (16), of the women (13), to wife (13), and his wife (12), and The women (11), of his wife (11), of a women (10), your wife (10), my wife (9), your wives (9), and their wives (8), as wife (8), for a wife (8), their wives (8), And a women (7), his wives (7), in marriage (7), of women (6), one (6), the wives (6), among women (5), of the woman (5), and the wives (4), of the wife (4), and your wife (3), and your wives (3), be his wife (3), nor women (3), of a harlot (3), of your wives (3), to him to wife (3), to the woman (3), and a wife (2), and his female (2), and wife (2), and with the women (2), and wives (2), as a women (2), as women (2), be your wife (2), each (2), every one (2), for wives (2), he shall cause the women (2), of a wife (2), of whose wife (2), our wives (2), that women (2), the woman (2), them wives (2), to his wife (2), with a women (2), - (1), a and of their wives (1), a and women (1), a concubine (1), a harlot (1), a truth women (1), a woman (1), after the women (1), also and for his wife (1), and against the wife (1), and every one her (1), and every women (1), and for your wives (1), and his wives (1), and our wives (1), and shall any women (1), and the adulteress (1), and the wife (1), and thou? or to the women (1), and toward the wife (1), as a wife (1), as his wife (1), as the women (1), be my wife (1), but a women (1), But his wife (1), Can a women her (1), concerning this women me (1), ess (1), every (1), every women (1), for me to wife (1), for my wives (1), for the women (1), for their wives (1), for themselves as wives (1), from the women (1), from women (1), has made women (1), her his wife (1), his wife him (1), I a women (1), if they are married (1), in the wife (1), into a woman (1), let my wife (1), let their wives (1), like to women (1), my wife you (1), my wives (1), none her (1), O you women (1), of his own wife (1), of my (1), of on a woman (1), of the wives (1), of their wives (1), of them his wives (1), of wife (1), of woman (1), of you women (1), of your wife (1), or his wife (1), or women (1), over his wife (1), shall she be above women (1), So the women (1), So the women her (1), that our wives (1), that their wives (1), the one (1), the women him (1), they marry (1), they were married (1), thou? And the women (1), to be the wife (1), to his wives (1), to my wife (1), to wife him (1), to women (1), to your wife (1), together (1), took the women (1), were married (1), when the women (1), wife him (1), womankind (1), women you (1), you and the women (1), you wives (1).

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    Quote Originally Posted by Disciple_of_christ View Post
    Leviticus 18:22 in Hebrew says "we et zakar lo tishkav mishkeveh Ishah Towebah hi." In English, it reads "and with a male, you shall not lie with in the beds of a woman. It is an abomination." It's talking about homosexual rape in association with shrine prostitution. In the ancient near east, men would have homosexual sex on the beds of women in worship of their gods. Towebah is used in the sense of ritual uncleanliness. This verse doesn't condemn all homosexual relationships as many Christians suggest.
    Do you belong a denomination that accepts homosexuality. Many denominations have fallen by the wayside.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JudgeRightly View Post


    "and with mankind not lie as with womankind an abomination it is"

    I see nothing about "beds of a woman."

    Spoiler
    Strong's h802

    - Lexical: נָשִׁים
    - Transliteration: ishshah
    - Part of Speech: Noun Feminine
    - Phonetic Spelling: ish-shaw'
    - Definition: wife.
    - Origin: Feminine of 'iysh or 'enowsh; irregular plural, nashiym {naw-sheem'}; a woman (used in the same wide sense as 'enowsh).
    - Usage: (adulter)ess, each, every, female, X many, + none, one, + together, wife, woman. Often unexpressed in English.
    - Translated as (count): the women (96), women (66), his wife (57), wife (56), the wife (41), wives (40), a women (36), a wife (32), and women (16), of the women (13), to wife (13), and his wife (12), and The women (11), of his wife (11), of a women (10), your wife (10), my wife (9), your wives (9), and their wives (8), as wife (8), for a wife (8), their wives (8), And a women (7), his wives (7), in marriage (7), of women (6), one (6), the wives (6), among women (5), of the woman (5), and the wives (4), of the wife (4), and your wife (3), and your wives (3), be his wife (3), nor women (3), of a harlot (3), of your wives (3), to him to wife (3), to the woman (3), and a wife (2), and his female (2), and wife (2), and with the women (2), and wives (2), as a women (2), as women (2), be your wife (2), each (2), every one (2), for wives (2), he shall cause the women (2), of a wife (2), of whose wife (2), our wives (2), that women (2), the woman (2), them wives (2), to his wife (2), with a women (2), - (1), a and of their wives (1), a and women (1), a concubine (1), a harlot (1), a truth women (1), a woman (1), after the women (1), also and for his wife (1), and against the wife (1), and every one her (1), and every women (1), and for your wives (1), and his wives (1), and our wives (1), and shall any women (1), and the adulteress (1), and the wife (1), and thou? or to the women (1), and toward the wife (1), as a wife (1), as his wife (1), as the women (1), be my wife (1), but a women (1), But his wife (1), Can a women her (1), concerning this women me (1), ess (1), every (1), every women (1), for me to wife (1), for my wives (1), for the women (1), for their wives (1), for themselves as wives (1), from the women (1), from women (1), has made women (1), her his wife (1), his wife him (1), I a women (1), if they are married (1), in the wife (1), into a woman (1), let my wife (1), let their wives (1), like to women (1), my wife you (1), my wives (1), none her (1), O you women (1), of his own wife (1), of my (1), of on a woman (1), of the wives (1), of their wives (1), of them his wives (1), of wife (1), of woman (1), of you women (1), of your wife (1), or his wife (1), or women (1), over his wife (1), shall she be above women (1), So the women (1), So the women her (1), that our wives (1), that their wives (1), the one (1), the women him (1), they marry (1), they were married (1), thou? And the women (1), to be the wife (1), to his wives (1), to my wife (1), to wife him (1), to women (1), to your wife (1), together (1), took the women (1), were married (1), when the women (1), wife him (1), womankind (1), women you (1), you and the women (1), you wives (1).
    The Hebrew word "Mishkab" originally referred to "beds of.."

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bradley D View Post
    Do you belong a denomination that accepts homosexuality. Many denominations have fallen by the wayside.
    No, i'm non-denominational.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Disciple_of_christ View Post
    No, i'm non-denominational.
    Then why do you defend homosexuality? Do you believe it to be non-sinful?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Disciple_of_christ View Post
    The Hebrew word "Mishkab" originally referred to "beds of.."
    Right, but you're trying to connect it to something that it's not connected to.

    [QUOTE]Strong's h4904

    - Lexical: מִשְׁכָּב
    - Transliteration: mishkab
    - Part of Speech: Noun Masculine
    - Phonetic Spelling: mish-kawb'
    - Definition: bed.
    - Origin: From shakab; a bed (figuratively, a bier); abstractly, sleep; by euphemism, carnal intercourse.
    - Usage: bed((-chamber)), couch, lieth (lying) with.
    - Translated as (count): his bed (4), their beds (4), your bed (4), bed (3), by lying (3), - (2), my bed (2), the bed (2), a bed (1), as those who lie (1), as with (1), beds (1), from his bed (1), from the bed (1), her bed (1), in bed (1), in the bed (1), in their beds (1), in your sleeping (1), man by lying with (1), my couch (1), of bedding (1), on a bed (1), on his bed (1), that has lain (1), their bed (1), to her as the bed (1), to her to the bed (1), upon his bed (1), upon Your bed (1).[/SPOILER]

    Also, that's not the only verse.

    Leviticus 20:13:



    The same word is used, and it's again saying that if a man lies with a man like he lies with a woman, both he and the man he lays with should be put to death.

    You seem to be making the argument, in your initial post, that it's speaking only of homosexual rape, and not homosexuality as a whole.

    Tell me (presuming the above is true), do you think that it is just to put a rape victim to death with the rapist?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bright Raven View Post
    Then why do you defend homosexuality? Do you believe it to be non-sinful?
    Because it's not a sin. Many of the passages used to condemn it have been misinterpreted.

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    [QUOTE=JudgeRightly;5346755]Right, but you're trying to connect it to something that it's not connected to.

    Strong's h4904

    - Lexical: מִשְׁכָּב
    - Transliteration: mishkab
    - Part of Speech: Noun Masculine
    - Phonetic Spelling: mish-kawb'
    - Definition: bed.
    - Origin: From shakab; a bed (figuratively, a bier); abstractly, sleep; by euphemism, carnal intercourse.
    - Usage: bed((-chamber)), couch, lieth (lying) with.
    - Translated as (count): his bed (4), their beds (4), your bed (4), bed (3), by lying (3), - (2), my bed (2), the bed (2), a bed (1), as those who lie (1), as with (1), beds (1), from his bed (1), from the bed (1), her bed (1), in bed (1), in the bed (1), in their beds (1), in your sleeping (1), man by lying with (1), my couch (1), of bedding (1), on a bed (1), on his bed (1), that has lain (1), their bed (1), to her as the bed (1), to her to the bed (1), upon his bed (1), upon Your bed (1).[/SPOILER]

    Also, that's not the only verse.

    Leviticus 20:13:



    The same word is used, and it's again saying that if a man lies with a man like he lies with a woman, both he and the man he lays with should be put to death.

    You seem to be making the argument, in your initial post, that it's speaking only of homosexual rape, and not homosexuality as a whole.

    Tell me (presuming the above is true), do you think that it is just to put a rape victim to death with the rapist?
    You're looking at the English translation of the Hebrew text. The English cannot accurately translate Hebrew words. You claimed i'm trying to connect it to something it's not connected to. Well we can clearly see from the Hebrew that's not the case. You just posted the definition of Mishkab which means "beds of." This implies homosexuality is a sin only when a man lies with another man in an improper bed belonging to a woman.

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    From gotquestions.org

    Saying that homosexuality is a sin seems to be the ultimate taboo in current society, at least in many parts of the world. Some who promote the homosexual agenda purposefully attack with over-the-top outrage and vitriol in order to frighten, intimidate, and discourage Christians from speaking out on the issue. Some say that if you believe homosexuality is a sin, you hate homosexuals. Or people imply that if you believe what the Bible says about homosexuality, you are a hateful, homophobic bigot. Many in the gay rights movement have gone far beyond fighting for equal rights. Some are now, in fact, fighting to take away the free speech rights of those with whom they disagree.

    The Bible describes homosexuality as an immoral and unnatural sin (Leviticus 18:22; 20:13; Romans 1:26-27; 1 Corinthians 6:9). Homosexuality is, ultimately, a result of the Fall. The Fall has infected the entire human race with sin. Sin warps, twists, perverts, and distorts what God created us to be. Homosexuality is a perversion of the created order. Men and women were designed to "fit" together sexually. One does not have to believe what the Bible teaches in order to recognize that homosexuality is not the way things are supposed to be. The obviousness of the unnaturalness of homosexuality is likely the reason why many in the gay rights movement respond which such hate towards anyone who dares to question the rightness or normalness of the lifestyle. If it was not so obviously unnatural, if it was so clearly normal, there would be no need for some in the gay rights movement to be so vitriolic.

    Sadly, some Christians (and/or some who claim to be Christians), take the Bible's teaching on homosexuality and apply/proclaim it in hateful ways. Groups like this make it very difficult for the true Christian message to be heard and understood. What is the true biblical message? Homosexuality is a sin, but it is not worse than any other sin. Through the sacrifice of Jesus Christ, God can and will forgive the sin of homosexuality, just as He will forgive any other sin.

    Once a person has received forgiveness and salvation by faith in Jesus Christ, God can and will help him or her to overcome sin. If a homosexual receives Jesus Christ as Savior, will he/she be instantly and permanently healed of all homosexual desires? Sometimes the answer is yes. Other times, homosexual inclinations and impulses are a lifelong struggle. God does not deliver us from our sinful nature until we leave this world and join Him in heaven. All Christians struggle with sin. To say that a Christian can struggle with other sins, but not the sin of homosexuality, is unbiblical. The key word, though, is struggle. The Christian life is a struggle against sin, not a life of bondage to sin. Ultimately, a denial of the possibility of victory over homosexuality is a denial of the power of God.

    Is it possible for a true Christian to give in to homosexual temptations? Yes, it is, just as it is possible for a true Christian to give in to heterosexual temptations. But, just as a Christian is no longer an adulterer or idolater, a Christian is also no longer a homosexual. First Corinthians 6:9–10 includes homosexuality in the list of things that the Corinthians were. Some of them were homosexuals, but that is not what they are any longer.

    Again, the biblical message is: (1) homosexuality is a sin, (2) but homosexuality is no greater sin than any other sin, and (3) God's forgiveness, salvation, and ultimately deliverance is just as available to the homosexual as it is to everyone else. May we all remember the words of Ephesians 4:15, "…speaking the truth in love…" It is not loving to withhold the truth. And, it is not a full expression of biblical truth if it lacks love.
    He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain what he cannot lose.

    Jim Elliot

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    Quote Originally Posted by Disciple_of_christ View Post
    Because it's not a sin. Many of the passages used to condemn it have been misinterpreted.
    Saying it doesn't make it so.

    Quote Originally Posted by Disciple_of_christ View Post
    You're looking at the English translation of the Hebrew text. The English cannot accurately translate Hebrew words. You claimed i'm trying to connect it to something it's not connected to. Well we can clearly see from the Hebrew that's not the case. You just posted the definition of Mishkab which means "beds of." This implies homosexuality is a sin only when a man lies with another man in an improper bed belonging to a woman.
    You didn't answer the questions I asked. Here they are again:


    You seem to be making the argument, in your initial post, that it's speaking only of homosexual rape, and not homosexuality as a whole.

    Tell me (presuming the above is true about your position), do you think that it is just to put a rape victim to death along with the rapist?

    Last edited by JudgeRightly; July 18th, 2019 at 02:59 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bright Raven View Post
    From gotquestions.org

    Saying that homosexuality is a sin seems to be the ultimate taboo in current society, at least in many parts of the world. Some who promote the homosexual agenda purposefully attack with over-the-top outrage and vitriol in order to frighten, intimidate, and discourage Christians from speaking out on the issue. Some say that if you believe homosexuality is a sin, you hate homosexuals. Or people imply that if you believe what the Bible says about homosexuality, you are a hateful, homophobic bigot. Many in the gay rights movement have gone far beyond fighting for equal rights. Some are now, in fact, fighting to take away the free speech rights of those with whom they disagree.

    The Bible describes homosexuality as an immoral and unnatural sin (Leviticus 18:22; 20:13; Romans 1:26-27; 1 Corinthians 6:9). Homosexuality is, ultimately, a result of the Fall. The Fall has infected the entire human race with sin. Sin warps, twists, perverts, and distorts what God created us to be. Homosexuality is a perversion of the created order. Men and women were designed to "fit" together sexually. One does not have to believe what the Bible teaches in order to recognize that homosexuality is not the way things are supposed to be. The obviousness of the unnaturalness of homosexuality is likely the reason why many in the gay rights movement respond which such hate towards anyone who dares to question the rightness or normalness of the lifestyle. If it was not so obviously unnatural, if it was so clearly normal, there would be no need for some in the gay rights movement to be so vitriolic.

    Sadly, some Christians (and/or some who claim to be Christians), take the Bible's teaching on homosexuality and apply/proclaim it in hateful ways. Groups like this make it very difficult for the true Christian message to be heard and understood. What is the true biblical message? Homosexuality is a sin, but it is not worse than any other sin. Through the sacrifice of Jesus Christ, God can and will forgive the sin of homosexuality, just as He will forgive any other sin.

    Once a person has received forgiveness and salvation by faith in Jesus Christ, God can and will help him or her to overcome sin. If a homosexual receives Jesus Christ as Savior, will he/she be instantly and permanently healed of all homosexual desires? Sometimes the answer is yes. Other times, homosexual inclinations and impulses are a lifelong struggle. God does not deliver us from our sinful nature until we leave this world and join Him in heaven. All Christians struggle with sin. To say that a Christian can struggle with other sins, but not the sin of homosexuality, is unbiblical. The key word, though, is struggle. The Christian life is a struggle against sin, not a life of bondage to sin. Ultimately, a denial of the possibility of victory over homosexuality is a denial of the power of God.

    Is it possible for a true Christian to give in to homosexual temptations? Yes, it is, just as it is possible for a true Christian to give in to heterosexual temptations. But, just as a Christian is no longer an adulterer or idolater, a Christian is also no longer a homosexual. First Corinthians 6:9–10 includes homosexuality in the list of things that the Corinthians were. Some of them were homosexuals, but that is not what they are any longer.

    Again, the biblical message is: (1) homosexuality is a sin, (2) but homosexuality is no greater sin than any other sin, and (3) God's forgiveness, salvation, and ultimately deliverance is just as available to the homosexual as it is to everyone else. May we all remember the words of Ephesians 4:15, "…speaking the truth in love…" It is not loving to withhold the truth. And, it is not a full expression of biblical truth if it lacks love.
    https://theologyformankind.blogspot....ality-sin.htmlSee my Bible study for more. This article already assumes homosexuality is a sin. It doesn't delve into understanding the culture of the time and the points i brought up. Instead, the author chooses to do a smear campaign rather than teach the truth lol.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Disciple_of_christ View Post
    https://theologyformankind.blogspot....ality-sin.htmlSee my Bible study for more. This article already assumes homosexuality is a sin. It doesn't delve into understanding the culture of the time and the points i brought up. Instead, the author chooses to do a smear campaign rather than teach the truth lol.
    The culture of the time is irrelevant when you cant even acknowledge what the verse is fundamentally saying.

    Is it just to put the victim to death along with the rapist?

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