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Thread: Conservatives Against Liberty

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Barbarian View Post
    When man presumes to administer God's laws, that's the greatest evil posssible.
    That's not what the Bible says.

    God ordered men to carry out His laws.

    According to Barbarian, God ordered men to do "the greatest evil possible."
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    Originally Posted by aCultureWarrior
    BTW, what "trusted third parties" are you speaking of?

    Quote Originally Posted by Right Divider View Post
    The "trusted third parties" that do not exist due to government interference.
    The only thing I can think of is arbitrators in civil suits, but they have to follow government guidelines in their rulings too.
    The very long history of Donald Trump's pro homosexual and transgender activism, before and during his Presidency, can be found on page 141, post # 2113 and #2114.
    http://theologyonline.com/showthread...=1#post5336963
    http://theologyonline.com/showthread...=1#post5336964

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    Quote Originally Posted by aCultureWarrior View Post
    Originally Posted by aCultureWarrior
    BTW, what "trusted third parties" are you speaking of?

    The only thing I can think of is arbitrators in civil suits, but they have to follow government guidelines in their rulings too.
    You have SO MANY things to learn.
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    That explains why your an idiot.
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    Something that was SPOKEN OF since the world began CANNOT be the SAME thing as something KEPT SECRET since the world began.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Right Divider View Post
    You have SO MANY things to learn.
    That I do, that I do. How about starting off with some kind of Libertarian doctrine that embraces the Word of God?

    Then you could explain what "trusted third parties" means and how they would be involved in cases of fraud.

    That should be more than enough for my first 'learning lesson' don't cha think?
    The very long history of Donald Trump's pro homosexual and transgender activism, before and during his Presidency, can be found on page 141, post # 2113 and #2114.
    http://theologyonline.com/showthread...=1#post5336963
    http://theologyonline.com/showthread...=1#post5336964

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    Quote Originally Posted by aCultureWarrior View Post
    That I do, that I do. How about starting off with some kind of Libertarian doctrine that embraces the Word of God?
    First, you need to learn what libertarian means.

    Basically, it means voluntary relationships between people and not coerced or forced ones.

    Quote Originally Posted by aCultureWarrior View Post
    Then you could explain what "trusted third parties" means and how they would be involve in cases of fraud.
    They would be the meat inspectors and not the government. You know... the other two parties would both voluntarily agree to use them.

    Quote Originally Posted by aCultureWarrior View Post
    That should be more than enough for my first 'learning lesson' don't cha think?
    No, you need to start from scratch because you are so far out there.
    Quote Originally Posted by Squeaky View Post
    That explains why your an idiot.
    Quote Originally Posted by God's Truth View Post
    Father figure, Son figure, and Holy Spirit figure.
    Col 2:9 (AKJV/PCE)
    (2:9) For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

    1Tim 4:10 (AKJV/PCE)
    (4:10) For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.

    Something that was SPOKEN OF since the world began CANNOT be the SAME thing as something KEPT SECRET since the world began.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Right Divider View Post
    First, you need to learn what libertarian means.

    Basically, it means voluntary relationships between people and not coerced or forced ones.
    What a coincidence, I saw those very words in the Libertarian Party Platform.

    https://www.lp.org/platform/

    They would be the meat inspectors and not the government. You know... the other two parties would both voluntarily agree to use them.
    Actually I don't know. Would the two parties voluntarily agree to use a meat inspector employed by the grocer who sold the customer tainted meat or would the two parties voluntarily agree to use a friend of the customer?

    Perhaps someone who knows the statutes involving fraud (i.e. a government arbitrator) would work out better?


    No, you need to start from scratch because you are so far out there.
    And I want to thank you for helping me learn. For instance, I learned from the first part of your post that the core tenet of Libertarianism is quoted in the Libertarian Party Platform. Without your mentorship I would have never known that.
    The very long history of Donald Trump's pro homosexual and transgender activism, before and during his Presidency, can be found on page 141, post # 2113 and #2114.
    http://theologyonline.com/showthread...=1#post5336963
    http://theologyonline.com/showthread...=1#post5336964

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    Quote Originally Posted by Right Divider View Post
    The basis of Libertarianism is completely compatible with the Bible and does not exclude God in any way.

    You can beat up your straw-man, but that will prove nothing.

    The Bible verses that you love to quote do NOT give government the authority to mandate meat inspectors, etc. etc. etc.

    In a free society, there would be trusted third parties that would handle the situation quite well. No need for the government monster to invade to save the day. Government is always the last resort.
    Hmmm.... Leading Libertarians such as Ralph Raico will disagree with you. The following links demonstrate libertarianism's departure from God. In these areas of life libertarianism conflates license with liberty and that is a fatal flaw for any society that wants to exist long term. It's why the Bible condemns licentiousness in no uncertain terms.

    https://www.libertarianism.org/publi...arian-approach

    https://www.libertarianism.org/colum...n-perspectives

    https://humanevents.com/2007/01/31/l...ians-on-drugs/

    https://www.libertarianism.org/guides/lectures/marriage
    “Liberty cannot be established without morality, nor morality without faith.”
    ― Alexis de Tocqueville, Democracy in America

    “One and God make a majority.”
    ― Frederick Douglass

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    Quote Originally Posted by aCultureWarrior View Post
    While the word "civil leader" indicates a government official as opposed to leaders within the Church or the father in a family, if you would like me to drop the word "civil" in the future and use the term the Apostle Paul uses in Romans 13, I'll gladly do so.

    1 Let everyone be subject to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God. 2 Consequently, whoever rebels against the authority is rebelling against what God has instituted, and those who do so will bring judgment on themselves. 3 For rulers hold no terror for those who do right, but for those who do wrong. Do you want to be free from fear of the one in authority? Then do what is right and you will be commended. 4 For the one in authority is God’s servant for your good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for rulers do not bear the sword for no reason. They are God’s servants, agents of wrath to bring punishment on the wrongdoer. 5 Therefore, it is necessary to submit to the authorities, not only because of possible punishment but also as a matter of conscience. 6 This is also why you pay taxes, for the authorities are God’s servants, who give their full time to governing. 7 Give to everyone what you owe them: If you owe taxes, pay taxes; if revenue, then revenue; if respect, then respect; if honor, then honor.
    1. You take the quote from Paul outside the context of the Bible. We are to obey God rather than man. When men disagree with God we are to follow God instead of them. Government's power is very limited in that respect. Any time it disagrees with God it loses it's authority.

    2. Omitting a single word is not going to change your entire philosophy. All that does is attempt to hide the objectionable aspects of your thinking.
    “Liberty cannot be established without morality, nor morality without faith.”
    ― Alexis de Tocqueville, Democracy in America

    “One and God make a majority.”
    ― Frederick Douglass

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    Quote Originally Posted by aCultureWarrior View Post
    What a coincidence, I saw those very words in the Libertarian Party Platform.

    https://www.lp.org/platform/
    So gee whiz... the Libertarian Party agrees with basic libertarian philosophy.... who woulda thunk?

    Quote Originally Posted by aCultureWarrior View Post
    Actually I don't know. Would the two parties voluntarily agree to use a meat inspector employed by the grocer who sold the customer tainted meat or would the two parties voluntarily agree to use a friend of the customer?
    It would be an independent third party... I thought that was obvious enough, but ... then again... I'm writing to you.

    Quote Originally Posted by aCultureWarrior View Post
    Perhaps someone who knows the statutes involving fraud (i.e. a government arbitrator) would work out better?
    Continually clueless, you are.

    Quote Originally Posted by aCultureWarrior View Post
    And I want to thank you for helping me learn. For instance, I learned from the first part of your post that the core tenet of Libertarianism is quoted in the Libertarian Party Platform. Without your mentorship I would have never known that.
    Your sense of humor is as poor as your knowledge of things.
    Quote Originally Posted by Squeaky View Post
    That explains why your an idiot.
    Quote Originally Posted by God's Truth View Post
    Father figure, Son figure, and Holy Spirit figure.
    Col 2:9 (AKJV/PCE)
    (2:9) For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

    1Tim 4:10 (AKJV/PCE)
    (4:10) For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.

    Something that was SPOKEN OF since the world began CANNOT be the SAME thing as something KEPT SECRET since the world began.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ffreeloader View Post
    Hmmm.... Leading Libertarians such as Ralph Raico will disagree with you.
    Well then I guess that me and Ralph will have to disagree then, won't we?

    Quote Originally Posted by ffreeloader View Post
    The following links demonstrate libertarianism's departure from God. In these areas of life libertarianism conflates license with liberty and that is a fatal flaw for any society that wants to exist long term. It's why the Bible condemns licentiousness in no uncertain terms.

    https://www.libertarianism.org/publi...arian-approach

    https://www.libertarianism.org/colum...n-perspectives

    https://humanevents.com/2007/01/31/l...ians-on-drugs/

    https://www.libertarianism.org/guides/lectures/marriage
    I happen to disagree with some libertarians that feel that way. But I still believe that the basic principles are fully compatible with God and the Bible.

    Do unto others... etc. etc. etc.
    Quote Originally Posted by Squeaky View Post
    That explains why your an idiot.
    Quote Originally Posted by God's Truth View Post
    Father figure, Son figure, and Holy Spirit figure.
    Col 2:9 (AKJV/PCE)
    (2:9) For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

    1Tim 4:10 (AKJV/PCE)
    (4:10) For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.

    Something that was SPOKEN OF since the world began CANNOT be the SAME thing as something KEPT SECRET since the world began.

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    Originally Posted by aCultureWarrior
    While the word "civil leader" indicates a government official as opposed to leaders within the Church or the father in a family, if you would like me to drop the word "civil" in the future and use the term the Apostle Paul uses in Romans 13, I'll gladly do so.

    1 Let everyone be subject to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God. 2 Consequently, whoever rebels against the authority is rebelling against what God has instituted, and those who do so will bring judgment on themselves. 3 For rulers hold no terror for those who do right, but for those who do wrong. Do you want to be free from fear of the one in authority? Then do what is right and you will be commended. 4 For the one in authority is God’s servant for your good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for rulers do not bear the sword for no reason. They are God’s servants, agents of wrath to bring punishment on the wrongdoer. 5 Therefore, it is necessary to submit to the authorities, not only because of possible punishment but also as a matter of conscience. 6 This is also why you pay taxes, for the authorities are God’s servants, who give their full time to governing. 7 Give to everyone what you owe them: If you owe taxes, pay taxes; if revenue, then revenue; if respect, then respect; if honor, then honor.

    Quote Originally Posted by ffreeloader View Post
    1. You take the quote from Paul outside the context of the Bible. We are to obey God rather than man. When men disagree with God we are to follow God instead of them. Government's power is very limited in that respect. Any time it disagrees with God it loses it's authority.

    2. Omitting a single word is not going to change your entire philosophy. All that does is attempt to hide the objectionable aspects of your thinking.
    When the Apostle Paul was talking about governing authorities in Romans 13:4 he (per the definition you supplied in an earlier post) was talking about civil government, not the governing authorities of the Church and family:

    Quote Originally Posted by ffreeloader View Post
    Bouvier's Law Dictionary, Revised 6th Ed (1856) (bouvier)
    CIVIL. This word has various significations. 1. It is used in
    contradistinction to barbarous or savage, to indicate a state of society
    reduced to order and regular government; thus we speak of civil life, civil
    society, civil government, and civil liberty
    Of course people of faith are to follow God's Word instead of the word of corrupt men, in this case corrupt civil authorities (Acts 5:29), but that doesn't change why God made civil government (to punish evil and praise those who do good) and what type of people are to be selected as civil leaders: "men who fear God, men of truth, those who hate dishonest gain" (Exodus 18:21)

    Government's authority is given by God to deal with people who do evil or engage in certain immoral acts. While that gives civil government a "limited role", it's an invaluable role nevertheless, because without it you'd have chaos and anarchy.
    The very long history of Donald Trump's pro homosexual and transgender activism, before and during his Presidency, can be found on page 141, post # 2113 and #2114.
    http://theologyonline.com/showthread...=1#post5336963
    http://theologyonline.com/showthread...=1#post5336964

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    Quote Originally Posted by Right Divider View Post
    ... I still believe that the basic principles are fully compatible with God and the Bible.

    Do unto others... etc. etc. etc.
    Giving people a license to sin, which Libertarianism is all about, isn't loving your neighbor as you'd love yourself, hence the reason there is no such thing as a "Libertarian Christian".
    The very long history of Donald Trump's pro homosexual and transgender activism, before and during his Presidency, can be found on page 141, post # 2113 and #2114.
    http://theologyonline.com/showthread...=1#post5336963
    http://theologyonline.com/showthread...=1#post5336964

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    Exclamation

    Quote Originally Posted by aCultureWarrior View Post
    Giving people a license to sin, which Libertarianism is all about, isn't loving your neighbor as you'd love yourself, hence the reason there is no such thing as a "Libertarian Christian".
    Lying is a sin... you are a habitual liar.
    Quote Originally Posted by Squeaky View Post
    That explains why your an idiot.
    Quote Originally Posted by God's Truth View Post
    Father figure, Son figure, and Holy Spirit figure.
    Col 2:9 (AKJV/PCE)
    (2:9) For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

    1Tim 4:10 (AKJV/PCE)
    (4:10) For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.

    Something that was SPOKEN OF since the world began CANNOT be the SAME thing as something KEPT SECRET since the world began.

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    Originally Posted by aCultureWarrior
    Giving people a license to sin, which Libertarianism is all about, isn't loving your neighbor as you'd love yourself, hence the reason there is no such thing as a "Libertarian Christian".


    Quote Originally Posted by Right Divider View Post
    Lying is a sin... you are a habitual liar.
    1.4 Personal Relationships
    Sexual orientation, preference, gender, or gender identity should have no impact on the government’s treatment of individuals, such as in current marriage, child custody, adoption, immigration, or military service laws. Government does not have the authority to define, promote, license, or restrict personal relationships, regardless of the number of participants. Consenting adults should be free to choose their own sexual practices and personal relationships. Until such time as the government stops its illegitimate practice of marriage licensing, such licenses must be granted to all consenting adults who apply.

    https://www.lp.org/platform/

    Does not the teachings of God go directly against these things? How can you love God with all of your heart, mind and soul and then love your neighbor as yourself if you don't rebuke people from engaging in immoral behaviors by showing them that God has a better way or use His institution of civil government to punish those that commit crimes against nature and thus in the long run help them?
    The very long history of Donald Trump's pro homosexual and transgender activism, before and during his Presidency, can be found on page 141, post # 2113 and #2114.
    http://theologyonline.com/showthread...=1#post5336963
    http://theologyonline.com/showthread...=1#post5336964

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    Quote Originally Posted by aCultureWarrior View Post
    Originally Posted by aCultureWarrior
    Giving people a license to sin, which Libertarianism is all about, isn't loving your neighbor as you'd love yourself, hence the reason there is no such thing as a "Libertarian Christian".

    1.4 Personal Relationships
    Sexual orientation, preference, gender, or gender identity should have no impact on the government’s treatment of individuals, such as in current marriage, child custody, adoption, immigration, or military service laws. Government does not have the authority to define, promote, license, or restrict personal relationships, regardless of the number of participants. Consenting adults should be free to choose their own sexual practices and personal relationships. Until such time as the government stops its illegitimate practice of marriage licensing, such licenses must be granted to all consenting adults who apply.

    https://www.lp.org/platform/

    Does not the teachings of God go directly against these things? How can you love God with all of your heart, mind and soul and then love your neighbor as yourself if you don't rebuke people from engaging in immoral behaviors by showing them that God has a better way or use His institution of civil government to punish those that commit crimes against nature and thus in the long run help them?
    Continuing to CONFLATE a POLITICAL party with the idea that people should be free to make their own choices.

    And, OF COURSE, those choices should be in accordance with God's will.
    Quote Originally Posted by Squeaky View Post
    That explains why your an idiot.
    Quote Originally Posted by God's Truth View Post
    Father figure, Son figure, and Holy Spirit figure.
    Col 2:9 (AKJV/PCE)
    (2:9) For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

    1Tim 4:10 (AKJV/PCE)
    (4:10) For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.

    Something that was SPOKEN OF since the world began CANNOT be the SAME thing as something KEPT SECRET since the world began.

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