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Thread: JOHN 3:1 ISRAEL MUST BE BORN AGAIN

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    JOHN 3:1 ISRAEL MUST BE BORN AGAIN

    John 3:1 There was a man of the Pharisees, named Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews:

    3:2 The same came to Jesus by night, and said unto him, Rabbi, we know that thou art a teacher come from God: for no man can do these miracles that thou doest, except God be with him.

    3:3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

    3:4 Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?

    3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

    3:6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

    3:7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.

    To see the kingdom of God a man must be born again.

    The kingdom being spoken of is the prophetic Davidic kingdom on earth, in which Christ will reign along with the believing remnant, the Israel of God (Exodus 19:5-6 Luke 12:32 Psalm 22:28 Galatians 6:16).

    To enter into the kingdom a man must be born of water and of the Spirit. Israel had to believe on the name of Jesus; believe he was the Messiah, the Son of God (John 20:31 1 John 5:13). Jesus is saying that Israel had to repent and confess their sins as a nation and be water baptized and receive the Holy Spirit (Acts 2:38).

    The Holy Spirit under the fulfillment of the new testament will cleanse Israel with water and put a new spirit in them and cause them to walk in his statutes, keep his judgments, and do them (Ezekiel 36:24-28).

    Jesus in saying "Ye must be born again" speaks of the nation of Israel.

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    k0de (July 12th, 2019),Right Divider (July 12th, 2019),steko (July 11th, 2019)

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    Yep!
    Jer 23:5 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD[YHVH], that I will raise unto David a righteous Branch, and a King shall reign and prosper, and shall execute judgment and justice in the earth.
    Jer 23:6 In his days Judah shall be saved, and Israel shall dwell safely: and this is his name whereby he[the Branch] shall be called, THE LORD[YHVH] OUR RIGHTEOUSNESS.

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    Water has no power. Wash and wash with water and it with not purify even one. The Spirit needs nothing created to purify. Christ Himself accomplished all that is necessary so you need not do it. If you feel the need to repeat His work you voided the free gift.

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    One had to repent of their wrongs. Believe in Jesus as the Christ. The water baptism is dying to the old self and arising a new person. Live in the Spirit.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bradley D View Post
    One had to repent of their wrongs. Believe in Jesus as the Christ. The water baptism is dying to the old self and arising a new person. Live in the Spirit.
    Not true, my friend. The earth and all its elements has no power, it was created and has no authority. Every good thing is from above and not of this earth. There is one God, one baptism, one Spirit and one Lord of us all. You are mixing the element of water with the Spirit to accomplish when it is not needed. Introducing any element especially water with dilute the power of it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cntrysner View Post
    Not true, my friend. The earth and all its elements has no power, it was created and has no authority. Every good thing is from above and not of this earth. There is one God, one baptism, one Spirit and one Lord of us all. You are mixing the element of water with the Spirit to accomplish when it is not needed. Introducing any element especially water with dilute the power of it.
    Baptism was a symbol of dying to self and arising a new person. The transaction takes place within ones heart.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bradley D View Post
    Baptism was a symbol of dying to self and arising a new person. The transaction takes place within ones heart.
    What type of transaction needs to take place to receive a free gift? The power you attribute when the element of water is applied is now nothing more than a symbol? If a symbol then no power at all but merely a picture to reflect on.

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    Also your use of "had to"..One had to repent of their wrongs. That's not accepting a free gift. Do you really believe it's not a gift?
    Last edited by Cntrysner; July 11th, 2019 at 07:33 PM. Reason: .

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cntrysner View Post
    What type of transaction needs to take place to receive a free gift? The power you attribute when the element of water is applied is now nothing more than a symbol? If a symbol then no power at all but merely a picture to reflect on.
    Then why was there John the Baptist? Why did Jesus want John to baptize Him wven though Jesus was sinless?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bradley D View Post
    Then why was there John the Baptist? Why did Jesus want John to baptize Him wven though Jesus was sinless?
    The baptist..."I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance. but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire:

    But John forbad him, saying, I have need to be baptized of thee, and comest thou to me?

    15 And Jesus answering said unto him, Suffer it to be so now: for thus it becometh us to fulfil all righteousness.

    To fulfill all righteousness was its purpose under law and that is something we can not do. John was fully aware that jesus did not need it. Jesus did not need to repent for remission. True remission in a eternal sense for sin requires a sinless sacrifice not a washing. Christ did it for us. Christ did not need remission of sins. I ask you the same question? Why did Christ get water baptized. Was it symbolic?

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    "As soon as Jesus was baptized, He went up out of the water. Suddenly the heavens were opened, and He saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove and resting on Him. And a voice from heaven said, “This is My beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased!”…(Matthew 3:16-17).

    It seems to signify the beginning of Jesus' mission and the end of John's.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bradley D View Post
    Baptism was a symbol of dying to self and arising a new person. The transaction takes place within ones heart.
    That is "Churchianity" and not what the Bible says.

    Paul says what we in the body of Christ have ONE baptism and it's NOT water.
    Quote Originally Posted by Squeaky View Post
    That explains why your an idiot.
    Quote Originally Posted by God's Truth View Post
    Father figure, Son figure, and Holy Spirit figure.
    Quote Originally Posted by God's Truth View Post
    You preach against me for preaching obedience to Christ for salvation.
    Col 2:9 (AKJV/PCE)
    (2:9) For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

    1Tim 4:10 (AKJV/PCE)
    (4:10) For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.

    Something that was SPOKEN OF since the world began CANNOT be the SAME thing as something KEPT SECRET since the world began.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bradley D View Post
    Then why was there John the Baptist? Why did Jesus want John to baptize Him wven though Jesus was sinless?
    That's a great question for YOU. You were the one that thought water baptism represented someone's acceptable of Christ.
    Quote Originally Posted by Squeaky View Post
    That explains why your an idiot.
    Quote Originally Posted by God's Truth View Post
    Father figure, Son figure, and Holy Spirit figure.
    Quote Originally Posted by God's Truth View Post
    You preach against me for preaching obedience to Christ for salvation.
    Col 2:9 (AKJV/PCE)
    (2:9) For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

    1Tim 4:10 (AKJV/PCE)
    (4:10) For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.

    Something that was SPOKEN OF since the world began CANNOT be the SAME thing as something KEPT SECRET since the world began.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bradley D View Post
    "As soon as Jesus was baptized, He went up out of the water. Suddenly the heavens were opened, and He saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove and resting on Him. And a voice from heaven said, “This is My beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased!”…(Matthew 3:16-17).

    It seems to signify the beginning of Jesus' mission and the end of John's.
    Yes, both prophets of Israel preaching to Israel, fulfilling prophecy for Israel, etc. etc. etc.
    Quote Originally Posted by Squeaky View Post
    That explains why your an idiot.
    Quote Originally Posted by God's Truth View Post
    Father figure, Son figure, and Holy Spirit figure.
    Quote Originally Posted by God's Truth View Post
    You preach against me for preaching obedience to Christ for salvation.
    Col 2:9 (AKJV/PCE)
    (2:9) For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

    1Tim 4:10 (AKJV/PCE)
    (4:10) For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.

    Something that was SPOKEN OF since the world began CANNOT be the SAME thing as something KEPT SECRET since the world began.

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    At the risk of a departure from subjects such as the born again theory of a flat earth (Luddites, eat your heart out!), this verse was once quite mystifying to me, one of THOSE verses requiring a lot of pondering, study, or, should probably say, waiting on the Lord for an answer:

    John 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

    At the outset, I had to reject the interpretation water was a reference to amniotic fluid you've all probably heard before: that one never rang any bells. The reason is, I could make zero sense of the Lord Jesus having some need to point out that a man had to first be born, in the physical sense, I believe linking v6 that flesh is flesh and spirit is spirit understandable, but this assuming there was some one-to-one correspondence to the v5 references to water and spirit, as opposed to a separate, expanded teaching that flesh is flesh and not enough. Or, I can't see that any human needs to be told they needed to be born of their mother, first: who needs that fact pointed out? (It seems you'd only need to point out to somebody not physically born yet they need to get born.) There was no way I could make sense of this, had to throw out the amniotic interpretation.

    Then, we have the notion that water refers to water baptism, which you can find this dead horse beaten, by finding the arguments here and everywhere on the web, why water baptism is not necessary for salvation, why so by scripture, that Holy Spirit baptism is what is necessary. On the other hand, it is interesting, would also agree that water baptism could very well be in the mix, not the work of being submerged in water essential, but in terms of it being essential one repent and the old man die, which water baptism does symbolize: one can very well see deep layers of meaning in much scripture, the word of God often with mysteries to find this way. In fact, I believed this for some time, that the Lord Jesus, by the water, was referring to repentance, taking on agreement with God, under convictions of the Holy Spirit, and coming to faith in the Lord Jesus, the old man needing to die and be renewed, by the Spirit. I still see this as harmonious. But not the water referring to a necessary physical act of water baptism, again, you can see that dead horse beaten elsewhere, no need to go there.

    Which leads to this, which I came to rest upon, as what the water fundamentally is, definition 1, that explained everything, at least to me:

    Ephesians 5:25-27 Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it; That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word, That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish.

    Here, the Bible is outright stating water is the word of God, which makes complete sense, to me, anyway, that a man must hear the gospel of Jesus Christ, in order to repent, believe and be saved, baptized of the Holy Spirit, the water of the gospel word to receive, in order to believe and receive the Holy Spirit.

    Another interesting reference:

    Amos 8:11-12 Behold, the days come, saith the Lord GOD, that I will send a famine in the land, not a famine of bread, nor a thirst for water, but of hearing the words of the LORD: And they shall wander from sea to sea, and from the north even to the east, they shall run to and fro to seek the word of the LORD, and shall not find it.

    Again, the word of God is being referred to as thirsted after, "nor a thirst for water, but of hearing the words of the LORD."

    So, that's my two cents, three, for inflation. (By the way, only a real cheapskate would offer a penny for your thoughts, anymore.)

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