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Thread: Works of Law and Works of Grace, Is That Biblical?

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    Over 1000 post club iamaberean's Avatar
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    Works of Law and Works of Grace, Is That Biblical?

    Several years ago, I posted the following. It has been lost but I still believe it is relevant. So here is is again.

    Works of Law vs Works of Faith

    Proper use of words will help us understand the Word of God. How do we do that?

    Hermeneutics says that if there is a misunderstanding of a word, then search the scriptures for answers.
    Salvation is received and maintained by being obedient to God's word. So as we read the
    scriptures below, replace the word works with obedience. I will help by showing that beside each one,

    Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of
    God:
    There is no doubt that salvation is by grace through faith. We can accept this just as it is
    written.

    Jas 2:17 Even so faith, if it hath not works (obedience), is dead, being alone.
    Jas 2:18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works (obedience): shew me thy faith
    without thy works (obedience), and I will shew thee my faith by my works (obedience).
    Jas 2:19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and
    tremble.
    Jas 2:20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works (obedience) is dead?
    Jas 2:21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works (obedience), when he had offered
    Isaac his son upon the altar?

    Indeed we are saved by grace, but it is by being obedient that it is made perfect. Obedience
    is the works of those serving Jesus. So again, let us subsitute the word obedience for works.

    Jas 2:22 Seest thou how faith wrought with his works (obedience), and by works (obedience)
    was faith made perfect?
    Jas 2:23 And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was
    imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.
    Jas 2:24 Ye see then how that by works (obedience) a man is justified, and not by faith only.
    Jas 2:25 Likewise also was not Rahab the harlot justified by works (obedience), when she had
    received the messengers, and had sent them out another way?
    Jas 2:26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works (obedience) is dead
    also.

    Mat 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven;
    but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
    Doing the will of our Father requires obedience.

    Luk 6:49 But he that heareth, and doeth not, is like a man that without a foundation built an
    house upon the earth; against which the stream did beat vehemently, and immediately it fell;
    and the ruin of that house was great.

    Joh 9:31 Now we know that God heareth not sinners: but if any man be a worshipper of God,
    and doeth his will, him he heareth.

    1Jn 2:17 And the world passeth away, and the lust thereof: but he that doeth the will of God
    abideth for ever.

    Rom 6:16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to
    whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?

    2Co 7:15 And his inward affection is more abundant toward you, whilst he remembereth the
    obedience of you all, how with fear and trembling ye received him.

    Act 26:20 But shewed first unto them of Damascus, and at Jerusalem, and throughout all the
    coasts of Judaea, and then to the Gentiles, that they should repent and turn to God, and do
    works (obedience) meet for repentance.

    The above show the works (obedience) of faith.

    Other times when law is used in the new testament it will not be used alone but it will state the
    works of law.
    Now let us look at the works of law. Again we will replace works with obedience.

    Rom 3:26 To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier
    of him which believeth in Jesus.
    Rom 3:27 Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works (obedience)? Nay: but
    by the law of faith.

    Rom 9:31 But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law
    of righteousness.
    Rom 9:32 Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works (obedience)
    of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone;

    Gal 2:16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works (obedience) of the law, but by the
    faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the
    faith of Christ, and not by the works (obedience) of the law: for by the works (obedience) of the
    law shall no flesh be justified.

    Gal 3:1 O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before
    whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you?
    Gal 3:2 This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works (obedience) of the
    law, or by the hearing of faith?

    Gal 3:5 He therefore that ministereth to you the Spirit, and worketh miracles among you, doeth
    he it by the works (obedience) of the law, or by the hearing of faith?

    Gal 3:10 For as many as are of the works (obedience) of the law are under the curse: for it is
    written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the
    law to do them.

    The works (obedience) of the law has been done away with, we live under the works (obedience) of faith.

    When Jesus states that we must do something, it is not the for our works (obedience) of the law
    but for our works (obedience) of faith that we do it.


    Mat 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
    Not every one is going to enter into God's kingdom unless they do his will.
    Mat 7:22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
    Go ahead and substitute 'deeds' for works, if you like, "and done many wonderful deeds".
    Mat 7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
    Just Works or Deeds will not be enough for God to know us.
    Mat 7:24 Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock:
    Who ever 'heareth' these things Jesus says, and 'doeth' them are the wise men.
    Mat 7:25 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock.
    Build our house on the 'rock', as Jesus says to build it.
    Mat 7:26 And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand:
    He that 'heardth' these things that Jesus says, and 'does not do them' is a foolish man. If God has said, by way of scripture, to do this or that, then by faith we should do it.
    Mat 7:27 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it.
    One should not let their salvation fall because they would not 'doeth' the things one is told to do by scriptures.

    Can one read the above and think that it is our good deeds that get us into heaven, or is it by doing the will of God?

    Mat 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

    2Co 10:5 Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ;
    2Co 10:6 And having in a readiness to revenge all disobedience, when your obedience is fulfilled.


    Rom 1:5 By whom we have received grace and apostleship, for obedience to the faith among all nations, for his name:
    Rom 6:16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?
    Rom 16:26 But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith:
    2Co 10:5 Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ;

    ergon
    er'-gon
    From ἔργω ergō (a primary but obsolete word; to work); toil (as an effort or occupation); by implication an act: - deed, doing, labour, work.

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    Over 750 post club Bradley D's Avatar
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    I believe that faith is seen in ones life.

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    TOL Subscriber turbosixx's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by iamaberean View Post
    Several years ago, I posted the following. It has been lost but I still believe it is relevant. So here is is again.

    Works of Law vs Works of Faith

    Proper use of words will help us understand the Word of God. How do we do that?

    Hermeneutics says that if there is a misunderstanding of a word, then search the scriptures for answers.
    Salvation is received and maintained by being obedient to God's word. So as we read the
    scriptures below, replace the word works with obedience. I will help by showing that beside each one,

    Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of
    God:
    There is no doubt that salvation is by grace through faith. We can accept this just as it is
    written.

    Jas 2:17 Even so faith, if it hath not works (obedience), is dead, being alone.
    Jas 2:18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works (obedience): shew me thy faith
    without thy works (obedience), and I will shew thee my faith by my works (obedience).
    Jas 2:19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and
    tremble.
    Jas 2:20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works (obedience) is dead?
    Jas 2:21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works (obedience), when he had offered
    Isaac his son upon the altar?

    Indeed we are saved by grace, but it is by being obedient that it is made perfect. Obedience
    is the works of those serving Jesus. So again, let us subsitute the word obedience for works.

    Jas 2:22 Seest thou how faith wrought with his works (obedience), and by works (obedience)
    was faith made perfect?
    Jas 2:23 And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was
    imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.
    Jas 2:24 Ye see then how that by works (obedience) a man is justified, and not by faith only.
    Jas 2:25 Likewise also was not Rahab the harlot justified by works (obedience), when she had
    received the messengers, and had sent them out another way?
    Jas 2:26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works (obedience) is dead
    also.

    Mat 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven;
    but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
    Doing the will of our Father requires obedience.

    Luk 6:49 But he that heareth, and doeth not, is like a man that without a foundation built an
    house upon the earth; against which the stream did beat vehemently, and immediately it fell;
    and the ruin of that house was great.

    Joh 9:31 Now we know that God heareth not sinners: but if any man be a worshipper of God,
    and doeth his will, him he heareth.

    1Jn 2:17 And the world passeth away, and the lust thereof: but he that doeth the will of God
    abideth for ever.

    Rom 6:16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to
    whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?

    2Co 7:15 And his inward affection is more abundant toward you, whilst he remembereth the
    obedience of you all, how with fear and trembling ye received him.

    Act 26:20 But shewed first unto them of Damascus, and at Jerusalem, and throughout all the
    coasts of Judaea, and then to the Gentiles, that they should repent and turn to God, and do
    works (obedience) meet for repentance.

    The above show the works (obedience) of faith.

    Other times when law is used in the new testament it will not be used alone but it will state the
    works of law.
    Now let us look at the works of law. Again we will replace works with obedience.

    Rom 3:26 To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier
    of him which believeth in Jesus.
    Rom 3:27 Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works (obedience)? Nay: but
    by the law of faith.

    Rom 9:31 But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law
    of righteousness.
    Rom 9:32 Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works (obedience)
    of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone;

    Gal 2:16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works (obedience) of the law, but by the
    faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the
    faith of Christ, and not by the works (obedience) of the law: for by the works (obedience) of the
    law shall no flesh be justified.

    Gal 3:1 O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before
    whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you?
    Gal 3:2 This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works (obedience) of the
    law, or by the hearing of faith?

    Gal 3:5 He therefore that ministereth to you the Spirit, and worketh miracles among you, doeth
    he it by the works (obedience) of the law, or by the hearing of faith?

    Gal 3:10 For as many as are of the works (obedience) of the law are under the curse: for it is
    written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the
    law to do them.

    The works (obedience) of the law has been done away with, we live under the works (obedience) of faith.

    When Jesus states that we must do something, it is not the for our works (obedience) of the law
    but for our works (obedience) of faith that we do it.


    Mat 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
    Not every one is going to enter into God's kingdom unless they do his will.
    Mat 7:22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
    Go ahead and substitute 'deeds' for works, if you like, "and done many wonderful deeds".
    Mat 7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
    Just Works or Deeds will not be enough for God to know us.
    Mat 7:24 Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock:
    Who ever 'heareth' these things Jesus says, and 'doeth' them are the wise men.
    Mat 7:25 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock.
    Build our house on the 'rock', as Jesus says to build it.
    Mat 7:26 And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand:
    He that 'heardth' these things that Jesus says, and 'does not do them' is a foolish man. If God has said, by way of scripture, to do this or that, then by faith we should do it.
    Mat 7:27 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it.
    One should not let their salvation fall because they would not 'doeth' the things one is told to do by scriptures.

    Can one read the above and think that it is our good deeds that get us into heaven, or is it by doing the will of God?

    Mat 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

    2Co 10:5 Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ;
    2Co 10:6 And having in a readiness to revenge all disobedience, when your obedience is fulfilled.


    Rom 1:5 By whom we have received grace and apostleship, for obedience to the faith among all nations, for his name:
    Rom 6:16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?
    Rom 16:26 But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith:
    2Co 10:5 Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ;

    ergon
    er'-gon
    From ἔργω ergō (a primary but obsolete word; to work); toil (as an effort or occupation); by implication an act: - deed, doing, labour, work.
    I agree we must obey in order to be worthy of the gift of grace.
    I wish the KJV had not of used "believeth not" instead of "does not obey" in this verse.
    Jn. 3:36 Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life; whoever does not obey the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God remains on him.
    Believeth not is perfectly fine if one understands that to believe is to obey and thus to not obey is to not believe.

    Talking about those who came out of Egypt, we see the definition of unbelief is disobedience.
    Heb. 3:18 And to whom did he swear that they would not enter his rest, but to those who were disobedient? 19 So we see that they were unable to enter because of unbelief.


    FYI, it would be easier to read your post if you would us a different color for scripture/your words so we can tell where one ends and the other begins.
    Wretched man that I am.

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    Over 750 post club Bradley D's Avatar
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    Works are expected of the believer, but one gains no points by doing them. Grace is a gift (Eph. 2:8).

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bradley D View Post
    Works are expected of the believer, but one gains no points by doing them. Grace is a gift (Eph. 2:8).
    Good works are a natural consequence of being saved by grace through faith.

    Eph 2:8-10 KJV For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: (9) Not of works, lest any man should boast. (10) For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.
    Last edited by Right Divider; June 27th, 2019 at 07:21 AM. Reason: typo
    Quote Originally Posted by Squeaky View Post
    That explains why your an idiot.
    Quote Originally Posted by God's Truth View Post
    Father figure, Son figure, and Holy Spirit figure.
    Col 2:9 (AKJV/PCE)
    (2:9) For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

    1Tim 4:10 (AKJV/PCE)
    (4:10) For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.

    Something that was SPOKEN OF since the world began CANNOT be the SAME thing as something KEPT SECRET since the world began.

  6. The Following User Says Thank You to Right Divider For Your Post:

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    Quote Originally Posted by turbosixx View Post


    FYI, it would be easier to read your post if you would us a different color for scripture/your words so we can tell where one ends and the other begins.
    Jer 23:5 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD[YHVH], that I will raise unto David a righteous Branch, and a King shall reign and prosper, and shall execute judgment and justice in the earth.
    Jer 23:6 In his days Judah shall be saved, and Israel shall dwell safely: and this is his name whereby he[the Branch] shall be called, THE LORD[YHVH] OUR RIGHTEOUSNESS.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bradley D View Post
    Works are expected of the believer, but one gains no points by doing them. Grace is a gift (Eph. 2:8).
    Will the believer suffer loss if they have no works?
    Wretched man that I am.

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    Quote Originally Posted by iamaberean View Post
    Several years ago, I posted the following. It has been lost but I still believe it is relevant. So here is is again.

    Works of Law vs Works of Faith

    Proper use of words will help us understand the Word of God. How do we do that?

    Hermeneutics says that if there is a misunderstanding of a word, then search the scriptures for answers.
    Salvation is received and maintained by being obedient to God's word. So as we read the
    scriptures below, replace the word works with obedience. I will help by showing that beside each one,

    Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of
    God:
    There is no doubt that salvation is by grace through faith. We can accept this just as it is
    written.

    Jas 2:17 Even so faith, if it hath not works (obedience), is dead, being alone.
    Jas 2:18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works (obedience): shew me thy faith
    without thy works (obedience), and I will shew thee my faith by my works (obedience).
    Jas 2:19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and
    tremble.
    Jas 2:20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works (obedience) is dead?
    Jas 2:21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works (obedience), when he had offered
    Isaac his son upon the altar?

    Indeed we are saved by grace, but it is by being obedient that it is made perfect. Obedience
    is the works of those serving Jesus. So again, let us subsitute the word obedience for works.

    Jas 2:22 Seest thou how faith wrought with his works (obedience), and by works (obedience)
    was faith made perfect?
    Jas 2:23 And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was
    imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.
    Jas 2:24 Ye see then how that by works (obedience) a man is justified, and not by faith only.
    Jas 2:25 Likewise also was not Rahab the harlot justified by works (obedience), when she had
    received the messengers, and had sent them out another way?
    Jas 2:26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works (obedience) is dead
    also.

    Mat 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven;
    but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
    Doing the will of our Father requires obedience.

    Luk 6:49 But he that heareth, and doeth not, is like a man that without a foundation built an
    house upon the earth; against which the stream did beat vehemently, and immediately it fell;
    and the ruin of that house was great.

    Joh 9:31 Now we know that God heareth not sinners: but if any man be a worshipper of God,
    and doeth his will, him he heareth.

    1Jn 2:17 And the world passeth away, and the lust thereof: but he that doeth the will of God
    abideth for ever.

    Rom 6:16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to
    whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?

    2Co 7:15 And his inward affection is more abundant toward you, whilst he remembereth the
    obedience of you all, how with fear and trembling ye received him.

    Act 26:20 But shewed first unto them of Damascus, and at Jerusalem, and throughout all the
    coasts of Judaea, and then to the Gentiles, that they should repent and turn to God, and do
    works (obedience) meet for repentance.

    The above show the works (obedience) of faith.

    Other times when law is used in the new testament it will not be used alone but it will state the
    works of law.
    Now let us look at the works of law. Again we will replace works with obedience.

    Rom 3:26 To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier
    of him which believeth in Jesus.
    Rom 3:27 Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works (obedience)? Nay: but
    by the law of faith.

    Rom 9:31 But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law
    of righteousness.
    Rom 9:32 Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works (obedience)
    of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone;

    Gal 2:16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works (obedience) of the law, but by the
    faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the
    faith of Christ, and not by the works (obedience) of the law: for by the works (obedience) of the
    law shall no flesh be justified.

    Gal 3:1 O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before
    whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you?
    Gal 3:2 This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works (obedience) of the
    law, or by the hearing of faith?

    Gal 3:5 He therefore that ministereth to you the Spirit, and worketh miracles among you, doeth
    he it by the works (obedience) of the law, or by the hearing of faith?

    Gal 3:10 For as many as are of the works (obedience) of the law are under the curse: for it is
    written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the
    law to do them.

    The works (obedience) of the law has been done away with, we live under the works (obedience) of faith.

    When Jesus states that we must do something, it is not the for our works (obedience) of the law
    but for our works (obedience) of faith that we do it.


    Mat 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
    Not every one is going to enter into God's kingdom unless they do his will.
    Mat 7:22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
    Go ahead and substitute 'deeds' for works, if you like, "and done many wonderful deeds".
    Mat 7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
    Just Works or Deeds will not be enough for God to know us.
    Mat 7:24 Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock:
    Who ever 'heareth' these things Jesus says, and 'doeth' them are the wise men.
    Mat 7:25 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock.
    Build our house on the 'rock', as Jesus says to build it.
    Mat 7:26 And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand:
    He that 'heardth' these things that Jesus says, and 'does not do them' is a foolish man. If God has said, by way of scripture, to do this or that, then by faith we should do it.
    Mat 7:27 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it.
    One should not let their salvation fall because they would not 'doeth' the things one is told to do by scriptures.

    Can one read the above and think that it is our good deeds that get us into heaven, or is it by doing the will of God?

    Mat 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

    2Co 10:5 Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ;
    2Co 10:6 And having in a readiness to revenge all disobedience, when your obedience is fulfilled.


    Rom 1:5 By whom we have received grace and apostleship, for obedience to the faith among all nations, for his name:
    Rom 6:16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?
    Rom 16:26 But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith:
    2Co 10:5 Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ;

    ergon
    er'-gon
    From ἔργω ergō (a primary but obsolete word; to work); toil (as an effort or occupation); by implication an act: - deed, doing, labour, work.
    I love how I can simply read the bible and understand it without having to replace words so as to allow passages to suit my doctrine.

    The lengths people will go to in order to turn grace into law is simply astounding.

    Why can't people simply believe that we are saved by grace apart from works?

    "The [open view] is an attempt to provide a more Biblically faithful, rationally coherent, and practically satisfying account of God and the divine-human relationship..." - Dr. John Sanders

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    Quote Originally Posted by turbosixx View Post
    Will the believer suffer loss if they have no works?
    1Co 3:10-15 KJV According to the grace of God which is given unto me, as a wise masterbuilder, I have laid the foundation, and another buildeth thereon. But let every man take heed how he buildeth thereupon. (11) For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ. (12) Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble; (13) Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is. (14) If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward. (15) If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.
    Quote Originally Posted by Squeaky View Post
    That explains why your an idiot.
    Quote Originally Posted by God's Truth View Post
    Father figure, Son figure, and Holy Spirit figure.
    Col 2:9 (AKJV/PCE)
    (2:9) For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

    1Tim 4:10 (AKJV/PCE)
    (4:10) For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.

    Something that was SPOKEN OF since the world began CANNOT be the SAME thing as something KEPT SECRET since the world began.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Clete View Post
    I love how I can simply read the bible and understand it without having to replace words so as to allow passages to suit my doctrine.

    The lengths people will go to in order to turn grace into law is simply astounding.

    Why can't people simply believe that we are saved by grace apart from works?
    Pride.
    Quote Originally Posted by Squeaky View Post
    That explains why your an idiot.
    Quote Originally Posted by God's Truth View Post
    Father figure, Son figure, and Holy Spirit figure.
    Col 2:9 (AKJV/PCE)
    (2:9) For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

    1Tim 4:10 (AKJV/PCE)
    (4:10) For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.

    Something that was SPOKEN OF since the world began CANNOT be the SAME thing as something KEPT SECRET since the world began.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Right Divider View Post
    [YELLOW][B]If any man's work [/COLOR][/INDENT]
    This is talking about the man's work.

    My question is what is the outcome of the man who believes but does nothing?
    Wretched man that I am.

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    Quote Originally Posted by turbosixx View Post
    This is talking about the man's work.

    My question is what is the outcome of the man who believes but does nothing?
    No rewards.

    Eternal life is not a reward, but a gift.
    Quote Originally Posted by Squeaky View Post
    That explains why your an idiot.
    Quote Originally Posted by God's Truth View Post
    Father figure, Son figure, and Holy Spirit figure.
    Col 2:9 (AKJV/PCE)
    (2:9) For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

    1Tim 4:10 (AKJV/PCE)
    (4:10) For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.

    Something that was SPOKEN OF since the world began CANNOT be the SAME thing as something KEPT SECRET since the world began.

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    Quote Originally Posted by turbosixx View Post
    Will the believer suffer loss if they have no works?
    How one lives their life as a Christian is their works. During the Roman Persecution people were attracted to Christianity by lives of Christians.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Right Divider View Post
    No rewards.

    Eternal life is not a reward, but a gift.
    So what you're saying is that once a person believes, how they live their life afterwards has zero impact on their salvation?
    Wretched man that I am.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bradley D View Post
    How one lives their life as a Christian is their works. During the Roman Persecution people were attracted to Christianity by lives of Christians.
    I agree. Do you believe that God has no rules/expectations for us once we believe?
    Wretched man that I am.

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