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Thread: Walter E. Williams on slavery and our founding fathers

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    Walter E. Williams on slavery and our founding fathers

    Here is a link to a short biography on Mr. Williams. http://walterewilliams.com/about/

    I subscribe to William's mailing list where he publishes articles on a variety of subjects related to race relations, the Constitution, liberty, etc.... In the quote below I will post one of the articles that arrived in my inbox this week. It focuses on our founding fathers and slavery.

    Slavery Is Neither Strange Nor Peculiar

    The favorite leftist tool for the attack on our nation's founding is
    that slavery was sanctioned. They argue that the founders disregarded
    the promises of our Declaration of Independence "that all men are
    created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain
    unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the
    pursuit of Happiness." These very ignorant people, both in and out of
    academia, want us to believe that slavery is unusual, as historian
    Kenneth Stampp suggested in his book, "Peculiar Institution: Slavery
    in the Ante-Bellum South." But slavery is by no means peculiar, odd,
    unusual or unique to the U.S.

    As University of Nebraska-Lincoln political science professor David
    P. Forsythe wrote in his book, "The Globalist," "The fact remained
    that at the beginning of the nineteenth century an estimated
    three-quarters of all people alive were trapped in bondage against
    their will either in some form of slavery of serfdom." Slavery was
    common among ancient peoples -- Egyptians, Babylonians, Assyrians,
    Hittites, Greeks, Persians, Armenians and many others. Large numbers
    of Christians were enslaved during the Ottoman wars in Europe. White
    slaves were common in Europe from the Dark Ages to the Middle Ages.
    It was only during the 17th century that the Atlantic slave trade
    began with Europeans assisted by Arabs and Africans.

    Slavery is one of the most horrible injustices. It posed such a moral
    dilemma at our 1787 Constitutional Convention that it threatened to
    scuttle the attempt to create a union between the 13 colonies. Let's
    look at some of the debate. George Washington, in a letter to
    Pennsylvania delegate Robert Morris, wrote, "There is not a man
    living who wishes more sincerely than I do, to see a plan adopted for
    the abolition of it." In a Constitutional Convention speech, James
    Madison said, "We have seen the mere distinction of color made in the
    most enlightened period of time, a ground of the most oppressive
    dominion ever exercised by man over man." In James Madison's records
    of the Convention he wrote, "(The Convention) thought it wrong to
    admit in the Constitution the idea that there could be property in
    men."

    John Jay, in a letter to R. Lushington: "It is much to be wished that
    slavery may be abolished. The honour of the States, as well as
    justice and humanity, in my opinion, loudly call upon them to
    emancipate these unhappy people. To contend for our own liberty, and
    to deny that blessing to others, involves an inconsistency not to be
    excused." Patrick Henry said, "I believe a time will come when an
    opportunity will be offered to abolish this lamentable evil." George
    Mason said, "The augmentation of slaves weakens the states; and such
    a trade is diabolical in itself, and disgraceful to mankind."

    Northern delegates to the Convention, and others who opposed slavery,
    wanted to count only free people of each state to determine
    representation in the House of Representatives and the Electoral
    College. Southern delegates wanted to count slaves just as any other
    person. That would have given slave states greater representation in
    the House and the Electoral College. If slaveholding states could not
    have counted slaves at all, the Constitution would not have been
    ratified and there would not be a union. The compromise was for
    slaves to be counted as three-fifths of a person when deciding
    representation in the House of Representatives and Electoral College.
    My question for those who condemn the Three-Fifths Compromise is "
    Would blacks have been better off if northern convention delegates
    stuck to their guns, not compromising, and a union had never been
    formed? To get a union, the northern delegates begrudgingly accepted
    slavery. Abolitionist Frederick Douglass understood the compromise,
    saying that the tree-fifths clause was "a downright disability laid
    upon the slaveholding states" that deprived them of "two-fifths of
    their natural basis of representation."

    Here's my hypothesis about people who use slavery to trash the
    founders: They have contempt for our constitutional guarantees of
    liberty. Slavery is merely a convenient moral posturing tool they use
    in their attempt to reduce respect for our Constitution.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ffreeloader View Post
    Here's my hypothesis about people who use slavery to trash the
    founders: They have contempt for our constitutional guarantees of
    liberty. Slavery is merely a convenient moral posturing tool they use
    in their attempt to reduce respect for our Constitution.
    As you note, many of the founders were entirely opposed to slavery. Others had a blind spot when it came to people of color. But you have to consider a man in the context of the times in which he lived.

    The people who assail Americans for so poorly living up to American ideals for so long, do not want to end the Constitution; they want it enforced.
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Barbarian View Post
    As you note, many of the founders were entirely opposed to slavery. Others had a blind spot when it came to people of color. But you have to consider a man in the context of the times in which he lived.

    The people who assail Americans for so poorly living up to American ideals for so long, do not want to end the Constitution; they want it enforced.
    Hogwash. The attacks on the Constitution are an every day event and the cries that the founders were a bunch of racist slaveowners is part and parcel of those attacks as the attacks and cries of racism all come from closely allied political activists and politicians.

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    Barbarian observes:
    As you note, many of the founders were entirely opposed to slavery. Others had a blind spot when it came to people of color. But you have to consider a man in the context of the times in which he lived.

    The people who assail Americans for so poorly living up to American ideals for so long, do not want to end the Constitution; they want it enforced.

    Quote Originally Posted by ffreeloader View Post
    Hogwash. The attacks on the Constitution are an every day event
    Other than the WH, and white nationalists, not all that common.

    “I like taking the guns early, like in this crazy man’s case that just took place in Florida ... to go to court would have taken a long time,” Trump said at a meeting with lawmakers on school safety and gun violence.

    “Take the guns first, go through due process second,” Trump said.

    During his tumultuous campaign, Donald Trump declared war on the press, pledging to “open up our libel laws” and impose fines on critical journalists if elected.
    https://www.cjr.org/special_report/p...eats-press.php

    So the threats are there, true enough. But notice that he's been pretty ineffective at taking down our Constitutional rights. So far, it's mostly big talk, but little action.

    and the cries that the founders were a bunch of racist slaveowners is part and parcel of those attacks
    That's just a fact. No point in denying it. As I reminded you, we need to assess leaders in terms of the times in which they lived.

    Trump would have been considered a loyal American with regard to race if he had lived in the early 1800s.
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Barbarian View Post
    Barbarian observes:
    As you note, many of the founders were entirely opposed to slavery. Others had a blind spot when it came to people of color. But you have to consider a man in the context of the times in which he lived.

    The people who assail Americans for so poorly living up to American ideals for so long, do not want to end the Constitution; they want it enforced.



    Other than the WH, and white nationalists, not all that common.

    “I like taking the guns early, like in this crazy man’s case that just took place in Florida ... to go to court would have taken a long time,” Trump said at a meeting with lawmakers on school safety and gun violence.

    “Take the guns first, go through due process second,” Trump said.

    During his tumultuous campaign, Donald Trump declared war on the press, pledging to “open up our libel laws” and impose fines on critical journalists if elected.
    https://www.cjr.org/special_report/p...eats-press.php

    So the threats are there, true enough. But notice that he's been pretty ineffective at taking down our Constitutional rights. So far, it's mostly big talk, but little action.



    That's just a fact. No point in denying it. As I reminded you, we need to assess leaders in terms of the times in which they lived.

    Trump would have been considered a loyal American with regard to race if he had lived in the early 1800s.
    LOL. You remind me of a horse with the way you wear your blinders.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ffreeloader View Post
    LOL. You remind me of a horse with the way you wear your blinders.
    That's funny - he reminds me of the other end of the horse
    Last edited by ok doser; June 20th, 2019 at 04:58 PM.

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    (Barbarian cites examples of politicians attacking the First and Second Amendments)

    Quote Originally Posted by ffreeloader View Post
    LOL. You remind me of a horse with the way you wear your blinders.
    If you think citing facts is "wearing blinders", maybe that's an important clue for you, no?
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Barbarian View Post
    (Barbarian cites examples of politicians attacking the First and Second Amendments)



    If you think citing facts is "wearing blinders", maybe that's an important clue for you, no?
    Trump haters.
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Barbarian View Post
    (Barbarian cites examples of politicians attacking the First and Second Amendments)



    If you think citing facts is "wearing blinders", maybe that's an important clue for you, no?
    That's right. Keep on insisting you have no idea what I meant. Keep up the fantasizing and the ignoring of reality. It's what I expect from you after all the the posts of yours I've read. However, we both know you understood me.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ffreeloader View Post
    That's right. Keep on insisting you have no idea what I meant.
    I know what you meant. I'm pointing out the faulty assumption. That's why I presented evidence, and you presented unsupported claims.

    Keep up the fantasizing and the ignoring of reality.
    I documented the evidence for you. Granted, it is unbelievable that the president of the United States would advocate overturning the Constitution he swore to uphold, but there it is. I gave you facts, not fantasies.

    It's what I expect from you after all the the posts of yours I've read.
    I've found that facts are far more credible than mere assertions. So that's why you so often see facts linked and documented in my posts.

    However, we both know you understood me.
    Of course I did. I even gave you two examples. It's just that the facts are unpleasant for you.

    Here's a good idea; find facts that support your claims, and show them to us. That would be a lot more effective than complaining about the facts I showed you.

    Perhaps you're unsure how to do that. While I don't know of any highly-placed government officials on the left, who have denounced our constitutional rights as Trump has, you could do a little research on Antifa, which has at least occasionally denied rights to their opponents. Worth a look.
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    Trump haters who support the things he said.
    Where is the evidence for a global flood?
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    I'm calling it now. By 2030 there will be a loud and obnoxious push by SJW's to remove all public displays and the removal from US currency of George Washington and Thomas Jefferson because they were "slave owners". If fact it has already started in San Francisco.

    Activists Want a Problematic Mural of George Washington Destroyed. It Will Cost a High School $600,000

    A high school in San Francisco is considering three options for censoring a mural of George Washington deemed problematic by the local activist community: putting up a curtain (price tag: $300,000), painting over it ($600,000), or hiding it behind panels ($875,000).

    No doubt San Francisco United School District could hire quite a few teachers in lieu of executing even the cheapest of those plans, but a 13-member working group asserts the mural must go. It "glorifies slavery, genocide, colonization, manifest destiny, white supremacy, oppression," and "doesn't represent SFUSD values of social justice, diversity, united, student-centered." It's also responsible for traumatizing students, according to the activists.

    The truth is that George Washington High School's mural is provocative by design. It was painted in 1936 by a Russian-American artist named Victor Arnautoff, who held leftist sympathies. Arnautoff did not wish to blindly celebrate Washington while ignoring the less savory aspects of the American founding, and thus he depicted the first president working his slaves and sending men to confiscate Native American lands. It was an attempt to remind students that history is a lot messier than what they read in class.
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Berean View Post
    The truth is that George Washington High School's mural is provocative by design. It was painted in 1936 by a Russian-American artist named Victor Arnautoff, who held leftist sympathies. Arnautoff did not wish to blindly celebrate Washington while ignoring the less savory aspects of the American founding, and thus he depicted the first president working his slaves and sending men to confiscate Native American lands. It was an attempt to remind students that history is a lot messier than what they read in class.[/I]
    They want to cover up that Washington owned slaves, and appropriated land that belonged to Native Americans?

    Seems to me that's not something you want to introduce in middle school, but it should be appropriate for high school students.
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    I wonder how many of those who have posted on this thread know that the contemporary Identity Politics of the American Political Left - and of the Democratic Party - comes out of the Frankfurt School Transformational Marxism of Theodore W. Adorno, Herbert Marcuse and others?

    The focus upon Identity Politics which led to an obsession of the Left with Racism, Feminism, Homosexuality, etc by the Frankfurt School psychologized Marxists began with their interest in anti-Semitism.

    See: http://newpol.org/content/frankfurt-school-and-jews

    "... Horkheimer and Adorno’s approach began to change in 1939-1940, when they began to develop a vast research project on anti-Semitism, ultimately sponsored by the American Jewish Committee."

    "Adorno and Horkheimer organized, as mentioned above, a vast research project on anti-Semitism, which resulted in several books published as a series, “Studies in Prejudice.”

    Note that the "theory" which Adorno and Horkheimer created around their interest in anti-semiticism looks a lot like a theory within American Personality and Social Psychology. In fact, in the fifties, this theory was accepted by many people then working in American Personality and Social Psychology. At that time one of the most referenced topics in the Social and Personality Psychology peer review journals was the F Scale, which Adorno and his associates used in their paper and pencil questionnaire study of anti-semiticism and the Authoritarian Personality.

    And in the 1950 book, The Authoritarian Personality, Adorno as senior author does get into his original interest in the study of anti-semiticism.

    "The present inquiry into the nature of the potentially fascistic
    individual began with anti-Semitism in the focus of attention.
    The authors, in common with most social
    scientists, hold the
    view that anti-Semitism is based more largely upon factors in
    the subject and in his total situation than upon actual
    characteristics of Jews, and that one place to look for
    determinants of anti-Semitic opinions and attitudes is within the
    persons who express them.."

    Adorno and other Frankfurters in the U.S. at the time, thirties and early forties, talked about "Critical Theory" and pretended their theory was about the cause of fascism and the Authoritarian Personality due to anti-semiticism and rigidity, what they were creating was more of a strategy for political propaganda purposes to change the American Culture - and, as it worked out, through the Universities.

    The object of Transformational Marxism was to change the dominant culture of the West, especially to weaken the influence of Christianity and the Family on the Culture. Eventually their strategy was to use Identity Politics, with its focus upon Racism, Sexism, and Homophobia as being "evil."

    For a while, after Transformational Marxism established its base of followers (and leaders) in the American universities during the Counterculture of 1962-1980 and beyond in the Me Generation, their opposition - the Conservatives - had no idea of what was to come by the 2016 Election in the use of Identity Politics. Andrew Breitbart, though had warned of Frankfurt School Transofrmational Marxism before 2016.

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    Facists and Leninists and other authoritarians have the same hatred of Jews because they don't assimilate.

    'Cosmopolitan' is a dog whistle word once used in Nazi Germany and Communist Russia
    Trump policy advisor Stephen Miller was at the podium to defend the president’s new immigration proposal, which would prioritize high-skilled immigrants who already speak English.

    Miller faced pushback from reporters, including a heated back-and-forth with CNN’s Jim Acosta, who quoted the Statue of Liberty’s famous inscription (“give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses...”) and questioned whether the immigration policy changes were in line with those values.

    Miller shot back, saying “that is one of the most outrageous, insulting, ignorant, and foolish things you’ve ever said.” But it was his accusation that Acosta has a “cosmopolitan bias” that stood out.

    “Cosmopolitan” isn’t a word that’s frequently heard in American politics (“elite” is much more common), but it wouldn’t be out of place in Adolf Hitler's Germany or Joseph Stalin's Soviet Union.

    It was an “anti-Semitic fighting term,” Volker Ullrich writes in his biography, Hitler: Ascent, “used against the Jews by Nazis and Bolsheviks alike.” Ullrich writes that the Jewish diaspora in Europe was “considered not only cosmopolitan, but also rootless, and in the late 1940s the term became a code word for Jews who insisted on their Jewish identity.”

    Today, as Politico notes, the definition has expanded — “in the eyes of their foes, 'cosmopolitans' tend to cluster in the universities, the arts and in urban centers, where familiarity with diversity makes for a high comfort level with 'untraditional' ideas and lives.”

    But its ugly history means that the word “cosmopolitan” still serves as a dog whistle within the white nationalist movement in the United States.
    https://www.pri.org/stories/2017-08-...mmunist-russia

    If you look at the fears and hatreds of white nationalists and other authoritarian people, you'll see that the greatest fear is that immigrants won't shed all of their "cosmopolitian" differences, and will become a different culture within America.

    The average American tends to look on subcultures within the United States as benign, interesting, even enriching. Not these guys:

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