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Thread: Are Christian Churches going into Full Blown Apostasy?

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    Are Christian Churches going into Full Blown Apostasy?

    The first century Christian church knew what it stood for, that Jesus Christ is the Son of God and that believers must die to the flesh and pick up their cross and follow Jesus. Jesus and His message of redemption and salvation meant everything to them.

    Then fast forward to today and look at what Christianity stands for these days. A growing segment of Christianity seems to have drifted away from the truth into false doctrines and non-scriptural ideas or self centered narcissism, looking at Jesus as a means to happiness in this life. Jesus has become our “ticket” to health, wealth and prosperity.

    The early church knew what Christ did for them, and had no problem calling out sin and challenging one another to walk in holiness. Today, sin is regularly tolerated, and sadly in some denominations is even encouraged, and the thought of picking up our cross daily and overcoming sin is a foreign concept to many Christians. When the early church saw teachings that contradicted the gospel, they were rebuked strongly by the church. Now we see a month long celebration of the LGBTQ movement on TV and the media. Where is the outcry from our Christian leaders, where is the outrage, it seems they been silent either out of fear or they just look the other way.

    The Bible tells us that in the final days evil would be seen as good, and good seen as evil; that false teachers would tickle the ears of lukewarm believers, and that there would be a great falling away from the truth. It seems we have gotten there....

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    Big whoopity do! If you need church, I hope you find one that works. You don’t need church or religion to find God, or let him find you....you only need faith and willingness.

    In any event, I consider it crazy to believe that God favors some people church, religion, beliefs, whatever and hates or disproves of others.

    The way you treat the person you love the least is the way you love God the most....quote from Rez Band. FWIW.
    Sometimes the hardest thing and the right thing are the same.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Guyver View Post
    Big whoopity do! If you need church, I hope you find one that works. You don’t need church or religion to find God, or let him find you....you only need faith and willingness.

    In any event, I consider it crazy to believe that God favors some people church, religion, beliefs, whatever and hates or disproves of others.

    The way you treat the person you love the least is the way you love God the most....quote from Rez Band. FWIW.
    Well you have to find the church that follows truth, not philosophy, false tradition, or doctrines of men.

    Take a look at a few of the false pagan practices and non-scriptural ideas brought into the church:

    •The rituals and practices of a priesthood to intercede and rule over the laity
    •A infallible vicar of Christ
    •Rote prayer
    •The Rosary (rote prayer to Mary for intercession)
    •Scapulars
    •Indulgences
    •Worship of Mary (in reality this pagan goddess with child pre-existed Mary and was known as the Queen of Heaven)
    •Holy Rituals
    •Sacraments
    •Holy water
    •The mission, practices, and methods of the Jesuits
    •Eucharistic Christ (The bread and wine becoming the body and blood of Christ whenever conjured up by a priest)

    And it gets worse, as they have tried to claim that they are above the bible and have the authority to change what God has set, even from Creation. Here are some statements made by church leaders and clergy regarding worship and their authority to change what God set from Creation. Here are some quotes with their sources:

    "It was the Catholic church which...has transferred this rest to Sunday in remembrance of the resurrection of our Lord. Therefore the observance of Sunday by the Protestants is an homage they pay, in spite of themselves, to the authority of the (Catholic) church." Monsignor Louis Segur, Plain Talk About Protestantism of Today, p. 213.

    "Sunday is our mark of authority...the church is above the Bible, and this transference of Sabbath observance is proof of that fact." Catholic Record of London, Ontario, September 1, 1923.

    "Perhaps the boldest thing, the most revolutionary change the Church ever did, happened in the first century. The holy day, the sabbath, was changed from Saturday to Sunday. 'The day of the Lord' was chosen, not from any direction noted in the scriptures, but from the Catholic church's sense of its own power...People who think that the scriptures should be the sole authority, should logically become 7th Day Adventists, and keep Saturday holy." St. Catherine Church Sentinel, Algonac, Michigan, May 21, 1995.


    "All of us believe many things in regard to religion that we do not find in the Bible. For example, nowhere in the Bible do we find that Christ or the Apostles ordered that the Sabbath be changed from Saturday to Sunday. We have the commandment of God given to Moses to keep holy the Sabbath Day, that is the 7th day of the week, Saturday. Today most Christians keep Sunday because it has been revealed to us by the Church outside the Bible." The Catholic Virginian, "To Tell You The Truth,” Vol. 22, No. 49 (Oct. 3, 1947).

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    Would you consider animal sacrifice, slavery, and the keeping of many wives as property pagan practice?
    Sometimes the hardest thing and the right thing are the same.

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    Do not throw the fast growing unregistered Chinese Church in the apostasy.
    Severe persecution can weed out most of the problems plus most of the people, but what is left will grow rapidly.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Guyver View Post
    Would you consider animal sacrifice, slavery, and the keeping of many wives as property pagan practice?
    Well on the question of pagan practice, its clear how it got into the church. The Council of Trent approved many pagan and unbiblical beliefs and declared it was to be accepted under the threat of "anathema". The Council of Trent declared in its proclamation's:

    It denied Sola Scriptura, "salvation by grace through faith alone" and pronounced anathemas (basically eternal damnation) upon anyone believing what the scripture says that they didn't agree with.

    It gave equal value to the authority of tradition versus Scripture but in actuality, tradition was held above Scripture and so allowed for most all of the ancient Roman pagan rites and rituals into the church.

    It declared the Scriptures was for the priesthood only, and prohibited to anyone in the laity to violate this, it was considered and held as a mortal sin.

    Confirmed the seven sacraments in a corrupted form which basically were of pagan origin. They held seven sacraments: baptism, confirmation, Eucharist (mass), penance/reconciliation (indulgences), extreme unction (last rights), marriage, and orders (ordination) and the Council of Trent declared all to be anathema whom did not hold the church's position that it was Christ Himself who instituted these seven sacraments, but the form they used were from paganism more than anything from scripture.

    Confirmed Purgatory which has no biblical basis but is of pagan origin. They held that even those "who die in the state of grace" (i.e., saved and sins forgiven) must still spend an indefinite time being purged/purified (i.e., expiated of sins/cleansed for heaven).

    Confirmed the use Indulgences allowing people to purchase to allow them to purposely sin, of which clearly is not sanctioned by the scriptures.

    Confirmed the Mass as a propitiatory offering. The Mass was unknown in the early church, the mass did not become an official doctrine until pronounced by the Lateran Council of 1215 under the direction of Pope Innocent III, and reaffirmed by the Council of Trent.

    Confirmed the perpetual virginity of Mary, that "if anyone does not confess in harmony with the holy Fathers that the holy and ever virgin and immaculate Mary is really and truly the mother of God, inasmuch as she in the last times and without semen by the Holy Spirit conceived God the Word himself specially and truthfully, who was born from God the Father before all ages, and she bore him uncorrupted, and after his birth her virginity remaining indissoluble, let him be condemned." The perpetual virginity of Mary thus became an official teaching of the church and the Council of Trent confirmed this dogma in the Constitution of Pope Paul IV known as "*** Quorundam." Here the pope warns against teaching that "the same blessed Virgin Mary is not truly the Mother of God, and did not remain always in the integrity of virginity, i. e., before birth, in birth, and perpetually after birth."

    Scripture says otherwise...

    Matthew 13:55
    Is not this the carpenter's son? is not his mother called Mary? and his brethren, James, and Joses, and Simon, and Judas?

    Matthew 27:56
    Among which was Mary Magdalene, and Mary the mother of James and Joses, and the mother of Zebedees children.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hobie View Post
    The first century Christian church knew what it stood for, that Jesus Christ is the Son of God and that believers must die to the flesh and pick up their cross and follow Jesus. Jesus and His message of redemption and salvation meant everything to them.

    Then fast forward to today and look at what Christianity stands for these days. A growing segment of Christianity seems to have drifted away from the truth into false doctrines and non-scriptural ideas or self centered narcissism, looking at Jesus as a means to happiness in this life. Jesus has become our “ticket” to health, wealth and prosperity.

    The early church knew what Christ did for them, and had no problem calling out sin and challenging one another to walk in holiness. Today, sin is regularly tolerated, and sadly in some denominations is even encouraged, and the thought of picking up our cross daily and overcoming sin is a foreign concept to many Christians. When the early church saw teachings that contradicted the gospel, they were rebuked strongly by the church. Now we see a month long celebration of the LGBTQ movement on TV and the media. Where is the outcry from our Christian leaders, where is the outrage, it seems they been silent either out of fear or they just look the other way.

    The Bible tells us that in the final days evil would be seen as good, and good seen as evil; that false teachers would tickle the ears of lukewarm believers, and that there would be a great falling away from the truth. It seems we have gotten there....
    Some early churches knew a few things, but Galatia was off, Corinth was in bad shape, Timothy 1:15 This thou knowest, that all they which are in Asia be turned away from me; of whom are Phygellus and Hermogenes.

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    Hobie, in your post #6 you quoted me....but you didn't bother to answer a single question I asked you. Instead, you went off on a diatribe beginning with a discussion on the Council of Trent. Now, this is your thread topic, and you are free to express your opinion, criticize the councils and the practices of the Catholic or any other church you wish.....but to fail to answer such a simple question is just beyond me.

    How is it that you have such strong opinion regarding the practices of the Catholic Church, but you can't even state your opinion as to whether or not slavery, animal sacrifice, and the keeping of many wives is pagan practice?
    Sometimes the hardest thing and the right thing are the same.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Guyver View Post
    Hobie, in your post #6 you quoted me....but you didn't bother to answer a single question I asked you. Instead, you went off on a diatribe beginning with a discussion on the Council of Trent. Now, this is your thread topic, and you are free to express your opinion, criticize the councils and the practices of the Catholic or any other church you wish.....but to fail to answer such a simple question is just beyond me.

    How is it that you have such strong opinion regarding the practices of the Catholic Church, but you can't even state your opinion as to whether or not slavery, animal sacrifice, and the keeping of many wives is pagan practice?
    What has that to do with the early church teaching, they didn't hold that at any point.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bling View Post
    Do not throw the fast growing unregistered Chinese Church in the apostasy.
    Severe persecution can weed out most of the problems plus most of the people, but what is left will grow rapidly.
    Yes, but are they picking up the apostasy and false doctrines already in the other churches...

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    Quote Originally Posted by oatmeal View Post
    Some early churches knew a few things, but Galatia was off, Corinth was in bad shape, Timothy 1:15 This thou knowest, that all they which are in Asia be turned away from me; of whom are Phygellus and Hermogenes.
    But the antichrist power was already growing, and basically the church in the whole western Roman empire let the ancient pagan worship come in. So it wasn't just a few places.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bling View Post
    Do not throw the fast growing unregistered Chinese Church in the apostasy.
    Severe persecution can weed out most of the problems plus most of the people, but what is left will grow rapidly.
    I met a Chinese priest who was a Catholic priest but turned to Buddhism and when I asked him why, he said there really wasn't any difference, especially when it came to Idols. Now Idol worship is one of the biggest apostasies from the beginning and yet it continues. Its found its way throughtout the world it found its way into the Christian church. Now while they claim they represent what they call 'Saints' such as Peter and Paul, and they never gave the 'Saints' to the people to worship or pray to, the pagan masses which came in made no such fine distinctions, and they came to regard the idols of the Saints themselves as present helps in trouble and addressed their prayers directly to them.

    The church was happy with all the pagan 'converts that swept into the church now that it had idols. And the 'converts' now could continue their pagan beliefs in the power of the dead and idol worship with these dead disciples now set up as 'Saints' in the church, to help them in their troubles as they had done before as pagans.

    A example of the closeness of the resemblance of the specialization of function of different 'Saints' to that of pagan spirits they were familiar with is found in the published lists of 'Saints' used by some Christians.

    Here are some of the examples: San Serapio was used to appealed to in case of stomach-ache; Santa Polonia for tooth-ache; San Jose, San Juan Bautista and Santa Catalina for headache; San Bernardo and San Cirilo for indigestion; San Luis for cholera; San Francisco for colic; San Ignacio and Santa Lutgarda for childbirth; Santa Balsania for scrofula; San Felix for ulcers; Santa Agueda for nursing mothers; San Babilas for burns; San Gorge for an infected cut; Santa Quiteria for dog's bite; San Ciriaco for diseases of the ear; Santa Lucia for the eyes; San Pedro for fever; and Santa Rita for the impossible and on and on. Some of the early Christians themselves protested against the cult of the 'Saints' which let idols in the church, for example, Vigilantius and Faustus in the fifth century. But they were opposed by men such as Augustine, Ambrose, Chrysostom, and Basil, who though claiming that God alone was worshipped, expressed full belief in the efficacy of the intercession of the Saints.

    Now you say you don't worship the dead, but there are festivals that go back directly to pagan customs connected with the dead. All Saints' Day, was observed on the Roman festival of the dead, the Lemuria. In the modern festival the faithful visit the tombs of the Saints, venerate their relics, and pray for their blessing. The next day also, the second of November, All Souls' Day, unquestionably reproduces some of the features of the Parentalia. The Parentalia or dies parentales ("ancestral days") was a nine-day festival held to honor the dead ancestors with visits to tombs and sacred offerings. It got into the church, and soon even Christians went to the cemeteries and decked the graves of the members of their family with flowers and candles, and there were ceremonies which took the place of the ancient sacrifice, directed to the repose of the souls of the departed. Its still in the closely held beliefs of many Christians...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hobie View Post
    What has that to do with the early church teaching, they didn't hold that at any point.
    Interesting that you still have not answered the question.

    Slavery was a part of early church history and you can read all about it in Philemon, a New Testament work devoted to the topic.

    Animal sacrifice was definitely practiced while Jesus ministered as they offered sacrifices for Jesus in Luke chapter 2, and Jesus himself commanded the sacrifice in Matthew chapter 8 verse 4.
    Sometimes the hardest thing and the right thing are the same.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hobie View Post
    But the antichrist power was already growing, and basically the church in the whole western Roman empire let the ancient pagan worship come in. So it wasn't just a few places.
    The percentage of Christianity that read the Bible is small based on my experience, if that is reliable.

    The percentage of those who read regularly has to be smaller.

    The percentage who understand what they are reading is even smaller

    The percentage of those who do something with what they understand is even smaller.

    Take something as clear as Matthew 12:40

    Three days and three nights, the majority of Christian denominations do not believe what Jesus said, and make excuses for their unbelief

    They maybe saved but remain ignorant on many basic topics

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    Quote Originally Posted by oatmeal View Post
    The percentage of Christianity that read the Bible is small based on my experience, if that is reliable.

    The percentage of those who read regularly has to be smaller.

    The percentage who understand what they are reading is even smaller

    The percentage of those who do something with what they understand is even smaller.

    Take something as clear as Matthew 12:40

    Three days and three nights, the majority of Christian denominations do not believe what Jesus said, and make excuses for their unbelief

    They maybe saved but remain ignorant on many basic topics
    They cannot claim ignorance when the church tells it to them clearly of their apostasy. Here is one that stands out..

    'It is well to remind the Presbyterians, Baptists, Methodists, and all other Christians, that the Bible does not support them anywhere in their observance of Sunday. Sunday is an institution of the Roman Catholic Church, and those who observe the day observe a commandment of the Catholic Church.'(Priest Brady, in an address, reported in the Elizabeth, NJ News& on March 18, 1903. This Rock)

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