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Thread: Chance or Design (Evolution or Creation)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Guyver
    The fact that a thing is specific and precise doesnít necessarily imply that God did it
    You do an amazing job at arguing with strawmen that you create.
    Quote Originally Posted by Guyver
    But it seems you assume that everything that exists is evidence of intelligence
    You really good at arguing against things nobody said.

    What we could say though is that everything which begins to exist has a cause. So ultimately you believe 1)that nothing caused everything; or 2) there is an eternally existing cause. If (2) is correct then we can see if the evidence points to an intelligence.
    Quote Originally Posted by Guyver
    We donít really know where we came from or why weíre here...
    Truthfully... I KNOW where I came from, and why I'm here. Guyver... you too can have that certainty of knowing where you came from, and where you are going.
    Without Genesis, absolutely nothing makes sense in all of Scripture.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 6days View Post
    I KNOW where I came from, and why I'm here. Guyver... you too can have that certainty of knowing where you came from, and where you are going.
    You mean you know you came from mommies tummy and you're here to live and die?

    Yeah....I know that as well. Thank you.

    PS. Or, did I read into what you really mean again?

    PSS. Perhaps you'd like to just answer the question, where did you come from and why are you here?

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    Quote Originally Posted by 6days View Post
    What we could say though is that everything which begins to exist has a cause. So ultimately you believe 1)that nothing caused everything; or 2) there is an eternally existing cause. If (2) is correct then we can see if the evidence points to an intelligence.
    Yes, everything which has a beginning has an ending and does in fact have a cause...except for God right? If (2) is correct and youíd like to test if it were intelligently designed, then you would have to find a way to test for that. What do you propose?

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    Quote Originally Posted by 7djengo7 View Post
    Why don't you just tell us, now, exactly what (if anything) you would say constitutes whatever you would call "scientific evidence" for the proposition, P?

    Have fun stonewalling against these questions.
    Generally speaking, evidence that is scientific in nature is observable, repeatable, and can be measured. For example, continental drift can be observed, measured, and repeated over time. So, the evidence demonstrating continental drift is scientific in nature.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Guyver
    where did you come from and why are you here?
    You and I are descendants of first Adam. "Then the Lord God formed the man from the dust of the ground. He breathed the breath of life into the man’s nostrils, and the man became a living person."

    Why you and I are here... "For I know the plans I have for you,” declares the LORD, “plans to prosper you and not to harm you, plans to give you hope and a future." Jeremiah 29:7
    Quote Originally Posted by Guyver
    Yes, everything which has a beginning has an ending and does in fact have a cause...except for God right?
    If you would be willing to use logic, and evidence you would agree that everything was has a beginning, has a cause. There are only two possibilities... 1) either you believe that nothing can cause everything... 2) or that the cause of everything is uncaused and has existed eternally. However you seem unwilling to use logic and science, afraid that may lead you to the Creator God of the Bible.
    Quote Originally Posted by Guyver
    If (2) is correct and you’d like to test if it were intelligently designed, then you would have to find a way to test for that. What do you propose?
    It is not difficult, Guyver.... We look to see if there is evidence that supports the hypothesis, or supports our beliefs. As somebody else in this thread suggested to you the evidence is everywhere.

    For example... Evolutionists such as Dawkins have argued that shoddy design and non-functionality is evidence against the Creator. Logically, it then follows, that good design and functionality is evidence for our Creator.
    Without Genesis, absolutely nothing makes sense in all of Scripture.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 6days View Post
    Why you and I are here... "For I know the plans I have for you,Ē declares the LORD, ďplans to prosper you and not to harm you, plans to give you hope and a future." Jeremiah 29:7
    Sorry that I feel the need to complain about this.... but that is a gross abuse of scripture.

    That scripture is NOT about your or me or the guy that you replied to.... it is specifically to and about Israel.

    Jer 29:1 KJV Now these are the words of the letter that Jeremiah the prophet sent from Jerusalem unto the residue of the elders which were carried away captives, and to the priests, and to the prophets, and to all the people whom Nebuchadnezzar had carried away captive from Jerusalem to Babylon;

    Jer 29:4 KJV Thus saith the LORD of hosts, the God of Israel, unto all that are carried away captives, whom I have caused to be carried away from Jerusalem unto Babylon;

    That is the audience for that passage of scripture.
    Quote Originally Posted by Squeaky View Post
    That explains why your an idiot.
    Quote Originally Posted by God's Truth View Post
    Father figure, Son figure, and Holy Spirit figure.
    Col 2:9 (AKJV/PCE)
    (2:9) For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

    1Tim 4:10 (AKJV/PCE)
    (4:10) For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.

    Something that was SPOKEN OF since the world began CANNOT be the SAME thing as something KEPT SECRET since the world began.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 6days View Post
    You and I are descendants of first Adam. "Then the Lord God formed the man from the dust of the ground. He breathed the breath of life into the manís nostrils, and the man became a living person."

    Why you and I are here... "For I know the plans I have for you,Ē declares the LORD, ďplans to prosper you and not to harm you, plans to give you hope and a future." Jeremiah 29:7
    We are descendants of our ancestors, that is without question. Whether or not there was ever a man named Adam is pure speculation. Whether that first man was directly made by God from dust and had life breathed into his nostrils is also speculative, and it is religious belief, not scientific fact.

    The second part of your post says that God made us and wishes to prosper us and not harm us, to give us hope, but it doesnít say anything about our death. Your end and mine is the same as our ancestors, we are here to die. That much is certain but it doesnít seem to fit into your theology.

    If you would be willing to use logic, and evidence you would agree that everything was has a beginning, has a cause. There are only two possibilities... 1) either you believe that nothing can cause everything... 2) or that the cause of everything is uncaused and has existed eternally. However you seem unwilling to use logic and science, afraid that may lead you to the Creator God of the Bible.
    1. I already admitted that everything with a beginning has a cause, yet you still present it as if I disagree. Itís almost like you canít even hear what I say.

    2. No one thinks nothing caused everything (that I know) and even saying it sounds silly.

    3. You presume incorrectly. If I could be somehow led to God, I would gladly accept it. But you canít lead me to God....you can lead me to your religion or the Bible, not the same thing as God.

    4. You presume that the ďGod of the BibleĒ is our Maker....and that someone who doesnít believe the Bible automatically doesnít believe in God. That makes no sense, especially when I already told you to your face that I do believe in God.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Guyver View Post
    2. No one thinks nothing caused everything (that I know) and even saying it sounds silly.
    It's a good thing that you added the "(that I know)" bit. Let me help you out by showing you that people do, in fact, believe that EVERYTHING, or in this case, SOMETHING, came from nothing.

    Richard Dawkins, everyone:

    https://youtu.be/umf3-nOdVCw

    https://youtu.be/-AQvWrX-mKg

    And Living Waters Ministries' list:

    https://youtu.be/_vlvZ_oqV1w

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    Quote Originally Posted by JudgeRightly View Post
    It's a good thing that you added the "(that I know)" bit. Let me help you out by showing you that people do, in fact, believe that EVERYTHING, or in this case, SOMETHING, came from nothing.

    Richard Dawkins, everyone:

    https://youtu.be/umf3-nOdVCw

    https://youtu.be/-AQvWrX-mKg

    And Living Waters Ministries' list:

    https://youtu.be/_vlvZ_oqV1w
    I don’t wish to check the links. If what you assert is correct and all those links present evidence showing people who support evolution believe that everything came from nothing, then my response is simple. It’s silly and I don’t believe it. I am aware that Stephen Hawking said that because something like gravity exists, the universe could have made itself from nothing, but I don’t think what he meant by nothing is the same thing you think it.

    Not that I wish to speak for him or anyone who thinks as he does on the matter, but if you think of empty space as nothing, it really isn’t. There are some things even in empty space in the form of energy, particles, and probably other things that we don’t even know about.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Guyver View Post
    I donít wish to check the links. If what you assert is correct and all those links present evidence showing people who support evolution believe that everything came from nothing, then my response is simple. Itís silly and I donít believe it.
    We agree. My reason for posting those videos was so that you could know for sure that people do in fact believe that everything came from nothing.

    I am aware that Stephen Hawking said that because something like gravity exists, the universe could have made itself from nothing, but I donít think what he meant by nothing is the same thing you think it.

    Not that I wish to speak for him or anyone who thinks as he does on the matter, but if you think of empty space as nothing, it really isnít. There are some things even in empty space in the form of energy, particles, and probably other things that we donít even know about.
    Right. Atheists (and those who accept the Big Bang as the origin of the universe) have to redefine "nothing" to mean something that it does not mean.

    Nothing means just that.

    No thing.

    Nada.

    Zilch.

    Nandemonai.

    Not space, not matter, not energy.

    The first and second videos are of Richard Dawkins trying to redefine nothing to mean "something," and then getting laughed at.

    The third is just a video list of several persons who believe the universe came from nothing.

    Anyways, we agree.

    The universe DID NOT come from nothing.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Guyver
    Adamant is pure speculation.
    No... It is a belief based in evidence.
    Quote Originally Posted by Guyver
    The second part of your post says that God made us and wishes to prosper us and not harm us, to give us hope, but it doesn’t say anything about our death. Your end and mine is the same as our ancestors, we are here to die. That much is certain but it doesn’t seem to fit into your theology
    "To give us hope" the verse says. I would suggest reading Romans 5.
    Quote Originally Posted by Guyver
    1. I already admitted that everything with a beginning has a cause
    Ok... Great. I wasn't so sure you understood because what you actually said was everything that has a beginning has a cause except for God. There is no exception... Everything that has a beginning has a cause.
    Quote Originally Posted by Guyver
    2. No one thinks nothing caused everything
    What I said was correct "There are only two possibilities... 1) either you believe that nothing can cause everything... 2) or that the cause of everything is uncaused and has existed eternally."
    Quote Originally Posted by Guyver
    3.... But you can’t lead me to God.
    True... God can use weak vessels such as myself. He can also use science, but the person has to be willing to follow evidence that might lead to the creator God of the Bible
    Quote Originally Posted by Guyver
    4. You presume that the “God of the Bible” is our Maker
    It is a belief based on evidence.
    Without Genesis, absolutely nothing makes sense in all of Scripture.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Right Divider
    Sorry that I feel the need to complain about this.... but that is a gross abuse of scripture.
    That scripture is NOT about your or me or the guy that you replied to.... it is specifically to and about Israel.
    Although God is speaking to Israel, the verse does show how God cares for each of us individually. He knew us before we were born and knitted us together in our mother's womb.
    Without Genesis, absolutely nothing makes sense in all of Scripture.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 6days View Post
    Although God is speaking to Israel, the verse does show how God cares for each of us individually. He knew us before we were born and knitted us together in our mother's womb.
    That passage would have made more sense to use than the other one that you were taking well out of context.
    Quote Originally Posted by Squeaky View Post
    That explains why your an idiot.
    Quote Originally Posted by God's Truth View Post
    Father figure, Son figure, and Holy Spirit figure.
    Col 2:9 (AKJV/PCE)
    (2:9) For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

    1Tim 4:10 (AKJV/PCE)
    (4:10) For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.

    Something that was SPOKEN OF since the world began CANNOT be the SAME thing as something KEPT SECRET since the world began.

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