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    God hated Esau !

    Rom 9:13

    13 As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.

    And even though here esau is an individual I believe hes representative of all individuals outside the purpose of God according to election Vs11. This hatered equates to being rejected of God

    Now why did God hate esau ? The scripture doesn't say, but it wasn't because he was a sinner or a depraved person.

    I know this because Paul had wrote:

    (For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth)

    So Gods hatred and rejection of esau wasn't for any foreseen evil he would do, in fact the hatred was formed for him before he existed [not yet born]

    Gods hatred for him and all outside of gracious election, is simply His own Sovereign will from within Himself.
    "... I have my own private opinion that there is no such a thing as
    preaching Christ and him crucified, unless you preach what now-a-days is
    called Calvinism. I have my own ideas, and those I always state boldly. It is
    a nickname to call it Calvinism; Calvinism is the gospel, and nothing else."

    Charles Spurgeon !

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    Quote Originally Posted by beloved57 View Post
    Rom 9:13

    13 As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.

    And even though here esau is an individual I believe hes representative of all individuals outside the purpose of God according to election Vs11. This hatered equates to being rejected of God

    Now why did God hate esau ? The scripture doesn't say, but it wasn't because he was a sinner or a depraved person.

    I know this because Paul had wrote:

    (For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth)

    So Gods hatred and rejection of esau wasn't for any foreseen evil he would do, in fact the hatred was formed for him before he existed [not yet born]

    Gods hatred for him and all outside of gracious election, is simply His own Sovereign will from within Himself.

    This article explains:


    When studying the Bible, it is critically important to always study the context of a particular Bible verse or passage. In these instances, the prophet Malachi and the apostle Paul are using the name “Esau” to refer to the Edomites, who were the descendants of Esau.

    Isaac and Rebekah had two sons, Esau and Jacob. God chose Jacob (whom He later renamed “Israel”) to be the father of His chosen people, the Israelites. God rejected Esau (who was also called “Edom”) and did not choose him to be the father of His chosen people. Esau and his descendants, the Edomites, were in many ways blessed by God (Genesis 33:9; Genesis chapter 36).

    So, considering the context, God loving Jacob and hating Esau has nothing to do with the human emotions of love and hate. It has everything to do with God choosing one man and his descendants and rejecting another man and his descendants. God chose Abraham out of all the men in the world. The Bible very well could say, “Abraham I loved, and every other man I hated.” God chose Abraham’s son Isaac instead of Abraham’s son Ishmael.
    https://www.gotquestions.org/Jacob-Esau-love-hate.html

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    Quote Originally Posted by betsy123 View Post
    Thanks for contribution. Did you understand point ?
    "... I have my own private opinion that there is no such a thing as
    preaching Christ and him crucified, unless you preach what now-a-days is
    called Calvinism. I have my own ideas, and those I always state boldly. It is
    a nickname to call it Calvinism; Calvinism is the gospel, and nothing else."

    Charles Spurgeon !

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    Quote Originally Posted by beloved57 View Post
    Thanks for contribution. Did you understand point ?
    Yes.

    The term "hate" that is used in the Scriptures, isn't to be confused with the human emotion of hatred.

    A lot of non-believers quote-mine Scriptural verses as evidence that the Scriptures is full of contradictions. How can a hating God be a loving God, they point out.

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    Quote Originally Posted by betsy123 View Post
    Yes.

    The term "hate" that is used in the Scriptures, isn't to be confused with the human emotion of hatred.

    A lot of non-believers quote-mine Scriptural verses as evidence that the Scriptures is full of contradictions. How can a hating God be a loving God, they point out.
    i stated what the hate meant. Its rejected of God.
    "... I have my own private opinion that there is no such a thing as
    preaching Christ and him crucified, unless you preach what now-a-days is
    called Calvinism. I have my own ideas, and those I always state boldly. It is
    a nickname to call it Calvinism; Calvinism is the gospel, and nothing else."

    Charles Spurgeon !

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    Quote Originally Posted by beloved57 View Post
    Rom 9:13

    13 As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.

    And even though here esau is an individual I believe hes representative of all individuals outside the purpose of God according to election Vs11. This hatered equates to being rejected of God

    Now why did God hate esau ? The scripture doesn't say, but it wasn't because he was a sinner or a depraved person.

    I know this because Paul had wrote:

    (For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth)

    So Gods hatred and rejection of esau wasn't for any foreseen evil he would do, in fact the hatred was formed for him before he existed [not yet born]

    Gods hatred for him and all outside of gracious election, is simply His own Sovereign will from within Himself.
    Try to show us where, in the Bible, you imagine it is said that God hated Esau WHILE ESAU WAS A BABY IN UTERO (let alone hated him at any time before that!) Have fun.

    I notice that you crassly travesty Paul's statement about Esau being "not yet born", so as to try to have Paul say, "before [Esau] existed":

    Quote Originally Posted by beloved57 View Post
    ....in fact the hatred was formed for him before he existed [not yet born]....
    And, that you burned yourself so spectacularly in doing so is exacerbated by the fact that, right there, in Romans 9, in v. 10, we can easily read:
    "but when Rebecca also had conceived by one, even by our father Isaac"

    In vv. 10-11, Paul very clearly specifies, by its two termini, a period of time, within which some particular event had occurred: that period between, on the one hand, Esau's conception by Isaac, in Rebecca's womb, and, on the other hand, his being born from her womb. There's not even a shred of a hint, anywhere in Romans 9:10-13, about a time prior to Esau's conception. Much less is there the slightest hint that a "hatred was formed" by God, against Esau, "before [Esau] existed". Surely, you can't really be so stupid as to imagine that Esau did not exist during the time between his conception and his birth, can you??

    Further, the particular event I mentioned, which occurred at some point within the period bounded by Esau's conception and his birth, was the event of God's saying unto Rebecca, "The elder shall serve the younger." Were you to actually read the text, you would see that there is not the slightest hint that, either before, or during, the term of Rebecca's pregnancy, it was said, either to Rebecca, or to someone else, "Esau have I hated". There is no mention, whatsoever, of God ever having declared, to Rebecca, "Esau have I hated." God's declaration that "I hated Esau" was part of "the burden of the word of the Lord to Israel by Malachi", in the 5th century, B.C., well over a millennium after Rebecca had died.

    Interesting to note, too, that you admit that, according to Paul, in Romans 9:11, Esau wasn't a sinner:

    Quote Originally Posted by beloved57 View Post
    Now why did God hate esau ? The scripture doesn't say, but it wasn't because he was a sinner or a depraved person.
    Why don't you, now, give some examples, from the Bible, of persons (if any) whom you would say God did hate BECAUSE he/she "was a sinner or a depraved person"?

    You blaspheme God by making Him to hate an in utero baby who is, as you admit, no "sinner or depraved person".

    Believe me, it is with great pleasure that I direct this reply to your dung heap of a post. I love to spotlight how you tear your own, anti-Bible heresy to shreds by your own manifest incompetence to even deal with what is actually written in the text of Scripture. I love the fact that I am (and others are) right, and that you are so egregiously wrong!

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    Quote Originally Posted by 7djengo7 View Post
    Try to show us where, in the Bible, you imagine it is said that God hated Esau WHILE ESAU WAS A BABY IN UTERO (let alone hated him at any time before that!) Have fun.

    I notice that you crassly travesty Paul's statement about Esau being "not yet born", so as to try to have Paul say, "before [Esau] existed":



    And, that you burned yourself so spectacularly in doing so is exacerbated by the fact that, right there, in Romans 9, in v. 10, we can easily read:
    "but when Rebecca also had conceived by one, even by our father Isaac"

    In vv. 10-11, Paul very clearly specifies, by its two termini, a period of time, within which some particular event had occurred: that period between, on the one hand, Esau's conception by Isaac, in Rebecca's womb, and, on the other hand, his being born from her womb. There's not even a shred of a hint, anywhere in Romans 9:10-13, about a time prior to Esau's conception. Much less is there the slightest hint that a "hatred was formed" by God, against Esau, "before [Esau] existed". Surely, you can't really be so stupid as to imagine that Esau did not exist during the time between his conception and his birth, can you??

    Further, the particular event I mentioned, which occurred at some point within the period bounded by Esau's conception and his birth, was the event of God's saying unto Rebecca, "The elder shall serve the younger." Were you to actually read the text, you would see that there is not the slightest hint that, either before, or during, the term of Rebecca's pregnancy, it was said, either to Rebecca, or to someone else, "Esau have I hated". There is no mention, whatsoever, of God ever having declared, to Rebecca, "Esau have I hated." God's declaration that "I hated Esau" was part of "the burden of the word of the Lord to Israel by Malachi", in the 5th century, B.C., well over a millennium after Rebecca had died.

    Interesting to note, too, that you admit that, according to Paul, in Romans 9:11, Esau wasn't a sinner:



    Why don't you, now, give some examples, from the Bible, of persons (if any) whom you would say God did hate BECAUSE he/she "was a sinner or a depraved person"?

    You blaspheme God by making Him to hate an in utero baby who is, as you admit, no "sinner or depraved person".

    Believe me, it is with great pleasure that I direct this reply to your dung heap of a post. I love to spotlight how you tear your own, anti-Bible heresy to shreds by your own manifest incompetence to even deal with what is actually written in the text of Scripture. I love the fact that I am (and others are) right, and that you are so egregiously wrong!
    I have given you sufficient scripture.

    Sent from my LGMP260 using Tapatalk
    "... I have my own private opinion that there is no such a thing as
    preaching Christ and him crucified, unless you preach what now-a-days is
    called Calvinism. I have my own ideas, and those I always state boldly. It is
    a nickname to call it Calvinism; Calvinism is the gospel, and nothing else."

    Charles Spurgeon !

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    Quote Originally Posted by beloved57 View Post
    I have given you sufficient scripture.

    Sent from my LGMP260 using Tapatalk
    I agree: you gave us sufficient scripture against which, by way of contrast, we are easily able to see, bright and clear, just how dismally, and how necessarily, you have failed in your anti-Scriptural claim. Romans 9 kills your false doctrine. Thank you, sir.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 7djengo7 View Post
    I agree: you gave us sufficient scripture against which, by way of contrast, we are easily able to see, bright and clear, just how dismally, and how necessarily, you have failed in your anti-Scriptural claim. Romans 9 kills your false doctrine. Thank you, sir.
    We will see in the day of Judgment who teaches false doctrine.
    "... I have my own private opinion that there is no such a thing as
    preaching Christ and him crucified, unless you preach what now-a-days is
    called Calvinism. I have my own ideas, and those I always state boldly. It is
    a nickname to call it Calvinism; Calvinism is the gospel, and nothing else."

    Charles Spurgeon !

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    Quote Originally Posted by beloved57 View Post
    We will see in the day of Judgment who teaches false doctrine.
    At least you are admitting (what I already know) that you do not know, here and now, in this life, that you aren't teaching false doctrine. I, and others, because of the light of Scripture, already see--know--right now, in our earthly abode, the truth that what you are teaching is false doctrine. Since you claim you have to wait until "the day of Judgment" to learn whether or not your doctrine is false, you are admitting the truth that you have not learned your doctrine from the Bible.

    Also, it's interesting how you puff yourself and smile at the idea of people who aren't you being, at some future time, cast into endless, fiery torment.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 7djengo7 View Post
    Try to show us where, in the Bible, you imagine it is said that God hated Esau WHILE ESAU WAS A BABY IN UTERO (let alone hated him at any time before that!) Have fun.

    I notice that you crassly travesty Paul's statement about Esau being "not yet born", so as to try to have Paul say, "before [Esau] existed":



    And, that you burned yourself so spectacularly in doing so is exacerbated by the fact that, right there, in Romans 9, in v. 10, we can easily read:
    "but when Rebecca also had conceived by one, even by our father Isaac"

    In vv. 10-11, Paul very clearly specifies, by its two termini, a period of time, within which some particular event had occurred: that period between, on the one hand, Esau's conception by Isaac, in Rebecca's womb, and, on the other hand, his being born from her womb. There's not even a shred of a hint, anywhere in Romans 9:10-13, about a time prior to Esau's conception. Much less is there the slightest hint that a "hatred was formed" by God, against Esau, "before [Esau] existed". Surely, you can't really be so stupid as to imagine that Esau did not exist during the time between his conception and his birth, can you??

    Further, the particular event I mentioned, which occurred at some point within the period bounded by Esau's conception and his birth, was the event of God's saying unto Rebecca, "The elder shall serve the younger." Were you to actually read the text, you would see that there is not the slightest hint that, either before, or during, the term of Rebecca's pregnancy, it was said, either to Rebecca, or to someone else, "Esau have I hated". There is no mention, whatsoever, of God ever having declared, to Rebecca, "Esau have I hated." God's declaration that "I hated Esau" was part of "the burden of the word of the Lord to Israel by Malachi", in the 5th century, B.C., well over a millennium after Rebecca had died.

    Interesting to note, too, that you admit that, according to Paul, in Romans 9:11, Esau wasn't a sinner:



    Why don't you, now, give some examples, from the Bible, of persons (if any) whom you would say God did hate BECAUSE he/she "was a sinner or a depraved person"?

    You blaspheme God by making Him to hate an in utero baby who is, as you admit, no "sinner or depraved person".

    Believe me, it is with great pleasure that I direct this reply to your dung heap of a post. I love to spotlight how you tear your own, anti-Bible heresy to shreds by your own manifest incompetence to even deal with what is actually written in the text of Scripture. I love the fact that I am (and others are) right, and that you are so egregiously wrong!
    God’s determination to save particular sinners, is founded upon the everlasting Covenant of
    Redemption established amongst Triune God before the foundation of the world; revealed through SOVEREIGN & UNCONDITIONAL ELECTION of souls in time according to the grace, will, & powers of God alone.

    John 17:24; Ephesians 1:4; I Peter 1:20
    "The immutable God never learned anything and never changed his mind. He knew everything from eternity."

    " The difference between faith and saving faith are the propositions believed."
    Gordon H. Clark

    "If a man be lost, God must not have the blame for it; but if a man be saved, God must have the glory of it."
    Charles Spurgeon

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    Quote Originally Posted by beloved57 View Post
    Rom 9:13

    13 As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.

    And even though here esau is an individual I believe hes representative of all individuals outside the purpose of God according to election Vs11. This hatered equates to being rejected of God

    Now why did God hate esau ? The scripture doesn't say, but it wasn't because he was a sinner or a depraved person.

    I know this because Paul had wrote:

    (For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth)

    So Gods hatred and rejection of esau wasn't for any foreseen evil he would do, in fact the hatred was formed for him before he existed [not yet born]

    Gods hatred for him and all outside of gracious election, is simply His own Sovereign will from within Himself.

    Amen Brother ! God's hatred and rejection of Esau [non-elect] is contrasted to the Love He had from Everlasting for the World John 3:16 of His Jacobs [His Elect]; a Special, Chosen People Deut. 7:6-8, when He Chose them In Union with Christ; joined together with Him before the foundation of the world , to be Holy and without blame before Him in Love Eph. 1:4.

    Mal. 1:1-2

    1 The burden of the word of the LORD to Israel by Malachi. 2 I have loved you, saith the LORD. Yet ye say, Wherein hast thou loved us? Was not Esau Jacob's brother? saith the LORD: yet I loved Jacob
    My soul thirsts for God, the God Who Lives Forever:
    when shall I be brought in to see His Face? -Psalm 42:2

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    Itís kind of crazy to think that God would hate someone, isnít it?

    I mean, if you actually take the time to think something through before you just believe it to be true that is. Love doesnít hate.

    But, to think that God hates is to think that God didnít know what he was doing when he built this place. Like God wouldnít know there would be stupid people and evil people in this world before he made it?

    Itís absolutely senseless. No builder builds without a plan.

    People hate people. God doesnít hate people. But whatever, praise the lord and pass the ammunition.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Guyver View Post
    It’s kind of crazy to think that God would hate someone, isn’t it?

    I mean, if you actually take the time to think something through before you just believe it to be true that is. Love doesn’t hate.

    But, to think that God hates is to think that God didn’t know what he was doing when he built this place. Like God wouldn’t know there would be stupid people and evil people in this world before he made it?

    It’s absolutely senseless. No builder builds without a plan.

    People hate people. God doesn’t hate people. But whatever, praise the lord and pass the ammunition.
    Reprobation is a biblical truth. It cannot be denied.

    All the sons of Adam are born at enmity against God. Human depravity is universal.

    Only God's grace and determination to reverse this hatred He receives from mankind, saves some.

    It is a wonder He shows mercy to any at all!
    "The immutable God never learned anything and never changed his mind. He knew everything from eternity."

    " The difference between faith and saving faith are the propositions believed."
    Gordon H. Clark

    "If a man be lost, God must not have the blame for it; but if a man be saved, God must have the glory of it."
    Charles Spurgeon

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nang View Post
    Reprobation is a biblical truth. It cannot be denied.
    In a sense....yes. The word "reprobate" which is archaic now, was used in the King James Bible. It is not used by modern versions, the word debased has been substituted. Debased means immoral, or sinful. But as I said....this is not something that God would not have known when he made the world. We know this because all living things exist in populations. We have a population of humans on this planet now in excess of 7 billion people. Based on science and mathematics, we can estimate or confidently establish certain traits. For example, let's take intelligence as measured by IQ. We know that the vast majority of humans fall around the average of 100. Yet, going out past a certain number of standard deviations from that mean, there is a certain percentage of those who have extremely low IQ's and those who have extremely high IQ's. So, in this population of people, there are some really dumb people and some really smart people, and the vast majority of people are somewhere in between. This is something God would obviously have known prior to his decision to create people.

    All the sons of Adam are born at enmity against God. Human depravity is universal.
    That is not true. There are plenty of moral people who live in the world, and there are plenty of sinners. Even the bible itself states this by calling Abel righteous and Cain wicked.

    Jesus himself disagreed with your assertion by plainly stating that there are both righteous and wicked people on the planet. He also called Abel righteous in Matthew 23:35, thus confirming that from one parent, ADAM came both righteous and unrighteous people. Both just and unjust people exist on this planet.

    In addition to this, Jesus disagreed with the idea of universal depravity by claiming that children are righteous members of God's kingdom....not unrighteous and depraved. Matthew 18:10.

    Only God's grace and determination to reverse this hatred He receives from mankind, saves some.
    It is truly amazing that humans exist on this planet. Yet, like all other populations of species that have ever existed, there will come a time when we won't. We can observe that species are born, they live, they thrive, then they die. Our time will come one day, in some form or another, and we ourselves could become extinct.

    In any event, I'd like to argue against the notion of people hating God by offering a simple question for you and all readers.

    How does one hate what one does not know? Or, how is it possible to hate a person whom you have never met?

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