User Tag List

Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 12
Results 16 to 26 of 26

Thread: Law Vs. Grace

  1. #16
    Journeyman
    Join Date
    May 2019
    Posts
    195
    Thanks
    24
    Thanked 47 Times in 38 Posts

    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Rep Power
    2150
    Quote Originally Posted by Lon View Post
    Had to reread what you mean. As with Betsy above, the response was positive and thus I believe love covers and heals. As with her story of the child slapping the mother, there is already a 'pain' problem and perhaps a slap back could cause an immediate stop and desist. Oddly, this reminds me of "Black Lives Matter" discussion where we are discussing whether violent protest is ever appropriate. To me? Very similar if not the same discussion. "Faithful are the wounds of a friend" doesn't have to mean a whip by any necessity and seems to be more about discipline in whatever form. The Apostle Paul talks of an athlete buffeting his/her body. It is in this light that I see the Proverbs 23:13

    I like and appreciate Nikolai's comments:

    I too, was spanked often as a child and I agree it did me little harm. Violence happening around me did an incredible amount of worse damage. I've made no secret I suffer PTSD. My father was a murderer and tried to murder each of us kids (thankfully in a drunken stupor or he would have succeeded). That's wholly different than my mother spanking me, often. Did I need it? No, not that often, but it did teach me respect and what I was going to face in the rest of the world.

    I yet believe those kids not spanked is perfectly fine, it is rather discipline that leads to self-discipline that is the goal.

    Some data I've read supports Town's data, and others are inconclusive.

    -Lon
    Lol. There is a continuation to that story about that particular child. You see, i was running a daycare. The next day, it was dad who pickled her up. She was the last child to be picked up. She started doing the same thing to her dada.
    I could see that dad was uncomfortable with me being there as a witness (thus he wasn't doing anything to rectify that behaviour).
    Finally I said....."I'm gong out. I see nothing. I hear nothing."
    I left them... I heard the child say, "Ow, you hit me."
    That was the end of that.

    Years later, I heard the marriage ended in divorce. The child - an adoloscent at the time - had chosen to go with dad.

  2. #17
    Over 750 post club Bradley D's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    San Jose, California
    Posts
    858
    Thanks
    40
    Thanked 253 Times in 173 Posts

    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Rep Power
    168801
    The problem with me is that my Dad drank and often beat me with the belt out of anger. I believe one should use the "rod" in accordance with God's Love.

    Death Penalty. Many people have been found innocent while on death row. For me one innocent put to death is one too many.

  3. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Bradley D For Your Post:

    annabenedetti (June 13th, 2019),Lon (June 14th, 2019)

  4. #18
    Super Moderator JudgeRightly's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2015
    Location
    On the road
    Posts
    9,770
    Thanks
    33,237
    Thanked 8,392 Times in 5,371 Posts

    Mentioned
    76 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)


    Rep Power
    2147634
    Quote Originally Posted by Bradley D View Post
    The problem with me is that my Dad drank and often beat me with the belt out of anger. I believe one should use the "rod" in accordance with God's Love.

    Death Penalty. Many people have been found innocent while on death row. For me one innocent put to death is one too many.
    You're biased toward protecting the innocent over punishing the guilty, when you should be equally concerned, as God is, with both. Doing one over the other, or killing the innocent or sparing the guilty is profaning God.

    And will you profane Me among My people for handfuls of barley and for pieces of bread, killing people who should not die, and keeping people alive who should not live, by your lying to My people who listen to lies? - Ezekiel 13:19 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/...9&version=NKJV
    Last edited by JudgeRightly; June 14th, 2019 at 12:55 AM.

  5. #19
    Toxic Adaptive Ninja Turtle Stripe's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Taipei, Taiwan
    Posts
    18,777
    Thanks
    496
    Thanked 12,481 Times in 8,869 Posts

    Blog Entries
    2
    Mentioned
    36 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)


    Rep Power
    2147848
    Quote Originally Posted by Bradley D View Post
    One innocent put to death is one too many.
    Jesus was put to death an innocent man.
    Where is the evidence for a global flood?
    E≈mc2
    "the best maths don't need no stinkin' numbers"

    "The waters under the 'expanse' were under the crust."
    -Bob B.

  6. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Stripe For Your Post:

    JudgeRightly (June 14th, 2019),Lon (June 14th, 2019)

  7. #20
    BANNED
    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Location
    OK
    Posts
    14,036
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 586 Times in 530 Posts

    Mentioned
    6 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Rep Power
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by Lon View Post
    Tough thread, btw, trying to follow: Death Penalty, Divorce, and Child-rearing. Seems to be a difference between 'letter of the law' vs. "spirit of it?" I'm not sure Christians need be too literal with O.T. instruction specifically because we are under grace and 'all things are permissible, but not all things are profitable." I'm not advocating a disregard for God's laws, but rather the part that reminds us that all the laws and prophets are based on loving one another and God.
    Matthew 22:40
    I said
    Your statement that "all things are permissible" is blasphemy. Grace is the law of Christ.

    JESUS COMMANDMENTS (RULE, LAW, ORDER)
    John 15:10
    10 "If you keep My commandments, you will abide in My love, just as I have kept My Father's commandments and abide in His love.
    John 14:21
    21 "He who has My commandments and keeps them, it is he who loves Me. And he who loves Me will be loved by My Father, and I will love him and manifest Myself to him."
    Matt 4:4
    4 But He answered and said, "It is written, 'Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceeds from the mouth of God.'"
    Matt 28:20
    20 "teaching them to observe all things that I have commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age." Amen.
    Matt 24:35
    35 "Heaven and earth will pass away, but My words will by no means pass away.
    I Jn 2:3
    3 Now by this we know that we know Him, if we keep His commandments.
    I Jn 5:3
    3 For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments. And His commandments are not burdensome.
    II Th 3:4
    4 And we have confidence in the Lord concerning you, both that you do and will do the things we command you.
    John 15:14
    14 "You are My friends if you do whatever I command you.
    1 Tim 4:11
    11 These things command and teach.
    1 Cor 7:10
    10 Now to the married I command, yet not I but the Lord: A wife is not to depart from her husband.
    Matt 28:20
    20 "teaching them to observe all things that I have commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age." Amen.
    Heb 13:8
    8 Jesus Christ is the same yesterday, today, and forever.
    Phile 1:21
    21 Having confidence in your obedience, I write to you, knowing that you will do even more than I say.
    Matt 5:20
    20 "For I say to you, that unless your righteousness exceeds the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, you will by no means enter the kingdom of heaven.
    John 15:10
    10 "If you keep My commandments, you will abide in My love, just as I have kept My Father's commandments and abide in His love.
    Acts 17:30
    30 "Truly, these times of ignorance God overlooked, but now commands all men everywhere to repent,
    II Jn 1:5-6
    5 And now I plead with you, lady, not as though I wrote a new commandment to you, but that which we have had from the beginning: that we love one another.
    6 This is love, that we walk according to His commandments. This is the commandment, that as you have heard from the beginning, you should walk in it.
    Matt 19:17-21
    17 So He said to him, "Why do you call Me good? No one is good but One, that is, God. But if you want to enter into life, keep the commandments."
    18 He said to Him, "Which ones?" Jesus said," 'You shall not murder,' 'You shall not commit adultery,' 'You shall not steal,' 'You shall not bear false witness,'
    19 'Honor your father and your mother,' and, 'You shall love your neighbor as yourself.'"
    20 The young man said to Him, "All these things I have kept from my youth. What do I still lack?"
    21 Jesus said to him, "If you want to be perfect, go, sell what you have and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come, follow Me."
    Rom 13:9
    9 For the commandments, "You shall not commit adultery," "You shall not murder," "You shall not steal," "You shall not bear false witness," "You shall not covet," and if there is any other commandment, are all summed up in this saying, namely, "You shall love your neighbor as yourself."
    Matt 22:37-40
    37 Jesus said to him," 'You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind.'
    38 "This is the first and great commandment.
    39 "And the second is like it: 'You shall love your neighbor as yourself.'
    40 "On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets."
    John 13:34-38
    34 "A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another; as I have loved you, that you also love one another.
    35 "By this all will know that you are My disciples, if you have love for one another."
    36 Simon Peter said to Him, "Lord, where are You going?" Jesus answered him, "Where I am going you cannot follow Me now, but you shall follow Me afterward."
    37 Peter said to Him, "Lord, why can I not follow You now? I will lay down my life for Your sake."
    38 Jesus answered him, "Will you lay down your life for My sake? Most assuredly, I say to you, the rooster shall not crow till you have denied Me three times.
    Matt 5:19
    19 "Whoever therefore breaks one of the least of these commandments, and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever does and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
    I Jn 4:20-21
    20 If someone says, "I love God," and hates his brother, he is a liar; for he who does not love his brother whom he has seen, how can he love God whom he has not seen?
    21 And this commandment we have from Him: that he who loves God must love his brother also.
    John 14:21
    21 "He who has My commandments and keeps them, it is he who loves Me. And he who loves Me will be loved by My Father, and I will love him and manifest Myself to him."
    John 15:17
    17 "These things I command you, that you love one another.
    I Jn 2:4
    4 He who says, "I know Him," and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
    I Jn 2:3
    3 Now by this we know that we know Him, if we keep His commandments.
    James 1:12-15
    12 Blessed is the man who endures temptation; for when he has been approved, he will receive the crown of life which the Lord has promised to those who love Him.
    13 Let no one say when he is tempted, "I am tempted by God"; for God cannot be tempted by evil, nor does He Himself tempt anyone.
    14 But each one is tempted when he is drawn away by his own desires and enticed.
    15 Then, when desire has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and sin, when it is full-grown, brings forth death.
    James 1:22-24
    22 But be doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving yourselves.
    23 For if anyone is a hearer of the word and not a doer, he is like a man observing his natural face in a mirror;
    24 for he observes himself, goes away, and immediately forgets what kind of man he was.
    James 1:25
    25 But he who looks into the perfect law of liberty and continues in it, and is not a forgetful hearer but a doer of the work, this one will be blessed in what he does.
    James 2:17
    17 Thus also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead.
    James 2:20
    20 But do you want to know, O foolish man, that faith without works is dead?
    James 2:26
    26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.
    1 Tim 6:12
    12 Fight the good fight of faith, lay hold on eternal life, to which you were also called and have confessed the good confession in the presence of many witnesses.
    1 Tim 6:14-16
    14 that you keep this commandment without spot, blameless until our Lord Jesus Christ's appearing,
    15 which He will manifest in His own time, He who is the blessed and only Potentate, the King of kings and Lord of lords,
    16 who alone has immortality, dwelling in unapproachable light, whom no man has seen or can see, to whom be honor and everlasting power. Amen.
    James 2:12
    12 So speak and so do as those who will be judged by the law of liberty.
    Rom 8:2
    2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has made me free from the law of sin and death.
    Rom 8:1
    1 There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus, who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit.
    I Jn 5:3-4
    3 For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments. And His commandments are not burdensome.
    4 For whatever is born of God overcomes the world. And this is the victory that has overcome the world-- our faith.
    Acts 1:1-3
    1 The former account I made, O Theophilus, of all that Jesus began both to do and teach,
    2 until the day in which He was taken up, after He through the Holy Spirit had given commandments to the apostles whom He had chosen,
    3 to whom He also presented Himself alive after His suffering by many infallible proofs, being seen by them during forty days and speaking of the things pertaining to the kingdom of God.
    I Jn 3:20-24
    20 For if our heart condemns us, God is greater than our heart, and knows all things.
    21 Beloved, if our heart does not condemn us, we have confidence toward God.
    22 And whatever we ask we receive from Him, because we keep His commandments and do those things that are pleasing in His sight.
    23 And this is His commandment: that we should believe on the name of His Son Jesus Christ and love one another, as He gave us commandment.
    24 Now he who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him. And by this we know that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us.
    (NKJ)
    xxxxxThe old testament had commandments. And the new testament has commandments. In the old testament the way to please God was to obey His commandments. In the new testament the way to please God is to obey Jesus commandments. And Jesus commands us to crucify our emotions and feelings. Just to get in the Spirit we, not Him, but we must crucify our emotions and feelings. Have you done that yet? And obey all the commandments in the new testament

  8. #21
    Over 750 post club Bradley D's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    San Jose, California
    Posts
    858
    Thanks
    40
    Thanked 253 Times in 173 Posts

    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Rep Power
    168801
    Quote Originally Posted by Stripe View Post
    Jesus was put to death an innocent man.
    That is right. God sent Jesus to teach and to be a sacrifice for our sins. Jesus knew that from the beginning of ministry. Now how does that fit in with innocents of death row being put to death.

  9. #22
    Super Moderator JudgeRightly's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2015
    Location
    On the road
    Posts
    9,770
    Thanks
    33,237
    Thanked 8,392 Times in 5,371 Posts

    Mentioned
    76 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)


    Rep Power
    2147634
    Quote Originally Posted by Bradley D View Post
    Now how does that fit in with innocents of death row being put to death.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bradley D View Post
    For me one innocent put to death is one too many.
    Was Jesus' death "one too many"?

  10. The Following User Says Thank You to JudgeRightly For Your Post:

    Stripe (June 14th, 2019)

  11. #23
    TOL Legend Lon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Posts
    9,813
    Thanks
    2,753
    Thanked 4,783 Times in 2,865 Posts

    Mentioned
    87 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)

    Rep Power
    2147736
    Quote Originally Posted by Squeaky View Post
    I said
    Your statement that "all things are permissible" is blasphemy.
    1 Corinthians 10:23
    My New Years Resolution: 1 Peter 3:15
    Omniscient without man's qualification. John 1:3 "Nothing"
    Colossians 1:17 "Nothing" John 15:5 "Nothing"
    Mighty, ALL mighty (omnipotent). Revelation 1:8
    No possible limitation Isaiah 40:25 Joshua 24:15
    Infinite (Omnipresent) Psalm 145:3 Hebrews 4:13

    Is Calvinism okay? Yep

    Now to Him who is able to do exceeding abundantly above all that we ask or think... Amen. -Ephesians 3:20 & 21

    1Co 13:11 ... when I became an adult, I set aside childish ways. Titus 3:10 Ephesians 4:29-32; 5:11

    Separation of church and State is not atheism "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights..."

  12. The Following User Says Thank You to Lon For Your Post:

    JudgeRightly (June 14th, 2019)

  13. #24
    TOL Legend Lon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Posts
    9,813
    Thanks
    2,753
    Thanked 4,783 Times in 2,865 Posts

    Mentioned
    87 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)

    Rep Power
    2147736
    Quote Originally Posted by betsy123 View Post
    Lol. There is a continuation to that story about that particular child. You see, i was running a daycare. The next day, it was dad who pickled her up. She was the last child to be picked up. She started doing the same thing to her dada.
    I could see that dad was uncomfortable with me being there as a witness (thus he wasn't doing anything to rectify that behaviour).
    Finally I said....."I'm gong out. I see nothing. I hear nothing."
    I left them... I heard the child say, "Ow, you hit me."
    That was the end of that.

    Years later, I heard the marriage ended in divorce. The child - an adoloscent at the time - had chosen to go with dad.
    It makes sense, but, as a reminder, I don't think 'spanking' but 'correction and training' is more the goal. As I've also said, however, I've met plenty of people that believe they needed a spanking once or twice. For me, the discussion of this is very important. Some will spank, some will not. Hopefully all 'train a child in the way they should go, and when they are older, they will not depart.'
    My New Years Resolution: 1 Peter 3:15
    Omniscient without man's qualification. John 1:3 "Nothing"
    Colossians 1:17 "Nothing" John 15:5 "Nothing"
    Mighty, ALL mighty (omnipotent). Revelation 1:8
    No possible limitation Isaiah 40:25 Joshua 24:15
    Infinite (Omnipresent) Psalm 145:3 Hebrews 4:13

    Is Calvinism okay? Yep

    Now to Him who is able to do exceeding abundantly above all that we ask or think... Amen. -Ephesians 3:20 & 21

    1Co 13:11 ... when I became an adult, I set aside childish ways. Titus 3:10 Ephesians 4:29-32; 5:11

    Separation of church and State is not atheism "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights..."

  14. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Lon For Your Post:

    betsy123 (June 15th, 2019),JudgeRightly (June 14th, 2019)

  15. #25
    TOL Legend
    Join Date
    Sep 2015
    Posts
    25,585
    Thanks
    4,171
    Thanked 9,744 Times in 7,255 Posts

    Mentioned
    39 Post(s)
    Tagged
    2 Thread(s)
    Rep Power
    2147786
    Quote Originally Posted by Lon View Post
    1 Corinthians 10:23
    oh Lon

    observe:

    Quote Originally Posted by Squeaky View Post
    Your statement that "all things are permissible" is blasphemy.

    I said
    lololol your an idiot

  16. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to ok doser For Your Post:

    JudgeRightly (June 15th, 2019),Lon (June 14th, 2019)

  17. #26
    Journeyman
    Join Date
    May 2019
    Posts
    195
    Thanks
    24
    Thanked 47 Times in 38 Posts

    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Rep Power
    2150
    Quote Originally Posted by Lon View Post
    It makes sense, but, as a reminder, I don't think 'spanking' but 'correction and training' is more the goal. As I've also said, however, I've met plenty of people that believe they needed a spanking once or twice. For me, the discussion of this is very important. Some will spank, some will not. Hopefully all 'train a child in the way they should go, and when they are older, they will not depart.'
    The child grew up to be a very nice lady.
    One day (in her teens), she knocked on my door for a visit! She also has good relationship with her mom.

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
About us
Since 1997 TheologyOnline (TOL) has been one of the most popular theology forums on the internet. On TOL we encourage spirited conversation about religion, politics, and just about everything else.

follow us