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Thread: Evolution and its effects.

  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lon View Post
    link to data? This was just discussed on TOL. Murder and rape are up, the likes we have not seen. Compare it to 1963 when the ten commandments came off the wall of public school classrooms, the Christian ABC's and prayer books were removed, etc.


    lon - please don't feed the troll

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  3. #62
    TOL Legend Lon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Barbarian View Post
    Barbarian observes:
    Spoiler

    On the other hand, there is also an inverse correlation between the number of Americans who accept evolution, and violence. An increase in acceptance of evolution over the last few decades has happened as violence has declined strongly.



    Sure. Gallup has been asking the same evolution question for decades:
    In U.S., Belief in Creationist View of Humans at New Low




    As acceptance of evolution grew, so did violent behavior fall. The rise in violent behavior in the 60 was primarily due to the rise of the boomers to young adulthood (when violence is most likely)and the marked decline since the 80s has been largely due to the aging of boomers.

    By decade’s end, the homicide rate plunged 42 percent nationwide. Violent crime decreased by one-third. What turned into a precipitous decline started later in some areas and took longer in others. But it happened everywhere: in each region of the country, in cities large and small, in rural and urban areas alike. In the Northeast, which reaped the largest benefits, the homicide rate was halved. Murders plummeted by 75 percent in New York City alone as the city entered the new millennium.

    The trend kept ticking downward from there, more slowly and with some fluctuations, to the present day. By virtually any metric, Americans now live in one of the least violent times in the nation’s history.

    https://www.theatlantic.com/politics...ecline/477408/



    There's been a small uptick lately, for reasons that shouldn't be a surprise to anyone.

    However, the small increase is dwarfed by the huge drop in violence since the 80s.





    Sorry, that excuse won't fly. My daughter prayed with her friends in school daily. And it's perfectly legal. If you don't do a good job of teaching your child about God, government is the last entity you want to do it for you.

    The good old days when many public schools taught the dominant religion in each community? Let's take a look...



    Not very good, was it? No Lon, it wasn't so good. As Madison wrote:

    Because experience witnesseth that ecclesiastical establishments, instead of maintaining the purity and efficacy of Religion, have had a contrary operation. During almost fifteen centuries has the legal establishment of Christianity been on trial. What have been its fruits? More or less in all places, pride and indolence in the Clergy, ignorance and servility in the laity, in both, superstition, bigotry and persecution.
    James Madison, Against Religious Assessments

    As you now realize, in the day when the First Amendment was routinely violated in public schools, violence was much greater than it is today.
    Greatly whitewashed. There is not a 'slight' uptake but a violence rate that is the same as the highest on record these past two years.

    It 'seems' your data is off. Further? We had violence 'among' people, not random acts of violence. I don't mind of you use data, but if you aren't willing to look at the converse, then the one-sided is just confirmation bias.

    Quote Originally Posted by ok doser View Post


    lon - please don't feed the troll
    My eternal optimism that someone will read and observe statistics correctly is to blame
    My New Years Resolution: 1 Peter 3:15
    Omniscient without man's qualification. John 1:3 "Nothing"
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    Mighty, ALL mighty (omnipotent). Revelation 1:8
    No possible limitation Isaiah 40:25 Joshua 24:15
    Infinite (Omnipresent) Psalm 145:3 Hebrews 4:13

    Is Calvinism okay? Yep

    Now to Him who is able to do exceeding abundantly above all that we ask or think... Amen. -Ephesians 3:20 & 21

    1Co 13:11 ... when I became an adult, I set aside childish ways. Titus 3:10 Ephesians 4:29-32; 5:11

    Separation of church and State is not atheism "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights..."

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    hope springs eternal

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    Quote Originally Posted by ok doser View Post
    hope springs eternal
    Where there's life, there's hope.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lon View Post
    Greatly whitewashed. There is not a 'slight' uptake but a violence rate that is the same as the highest on record these past two years.

    It 'seems' your data is off. Further? We had violence 'among' people, not random acts of violence. I don't mind of you use data, but if you aren't willing to look at the converse, then the one-sided is just confirmation bias.


    My eternal optimism that someone will read and observe statistics correctly is to blame
    Lon, you know as well as I do that any accusations of trolling where it comes to Barb are simply born out of dishonesty, dislike or personal malice. I agree with him on the whole over this and you and I probably disagree on things for the most part but I respect your integrity even then because it's honest.
    Well this is fun isn't it?


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    Quote Originally Posted by Arthur Brain View Post
    Lon, you know as well as I do that any accusations of trolling where it comes to Barb are simply born out of dishonesty, dislike or personal malice. I agree with him on the whole over this and you and I probably disagree on things for the most part but I respect your integrity even then because it's honest.
    gee, one troll standing up for another troll

    whooda thunk it
    Last edited by ok doser; June 19th, 2019 at 09:58 PM.

  10. #67
    TOL Legend Lon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arthur Brain View Post
    Lon, you know as well as I do that any accusations of trolling where it comes to Barb are simply born out of dishonesty, dislike or personal malice. I agree with him on the whole over this and you and I probably disagree on things for the most part but I respect your integrity even then because it's honest.
    Thank you. While there are times I do tire (and I know you grasp this) of repeated conversation where you can't seem to get through, I'm not generally bothered by such and don't find the obtuse-ion (is obtusion a word?) trollish.

    Data on this particular is difficult. With Barbarian, I agree there is a whole lot of corollary. Tying those to the data is the difficult part.

    The data from the center of Disease control does, however correlate with the removal of prayer and bible from the classroom. In the end, it has to do so: The government removed moral teaching in the name of promoting faith by government but it didn't replace moral teaching at that point. It was gone.

    Some will argue 'government' doesn't do that but I contest that if it takes a village, and the government has them for 6 hours, they (court and classroom) then are remiss at an essential time of social interaction, from doing what is right. A system of simple correction doesn't do it. Morals are lost AND the data, as far as I'm looking, suggests this strongly as being the case.
    My New Years Resolution: 1 Peter 3:15
    Omniscient without man's qualification. John 1:3 "Nothing"
    Colossians 1:17 "Nothing" John 15:5 "Nothing"
    Mighty, ALL mighty (omnipotent). Revelation 1:8
    No possible limitation Isaiah 40:25 Joshua 24:15
    Infinite (Omnipresent) Psalm 145:3 Hebrews 4:13

    Is Calvinism okay? Yep

    Now to Him who is able to do exceeding abundantly above all that we ask or think... Amen. -Ephesians 3:20 & 21

    1Co 13:11 ... when I became an adult, I set aside childish ways. Titus 3:10 Ephesians 4:29-32; 5:11

    Separation of church and State is not atheism "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights..."

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    Quote Originally Posted by Arthur Brain View Post
    Uh, it really isn't akin to saying anything of the like at all. Cancer is a killer disease, fact. Without treatment that's all it does, is kill. Cancer can hit anybody, from atheist to fundamentalist, from a baby to the elderly. Cancer doesn't care what your beliefs are or anything else. It's a killer disease full stop.
    if someone survives cancer that does not mean cancer is not a killer
    if someone believes evolution & does not kill them self or commit violence
    violence and suicide are still acceptable in evolution


    Evolution is simply the process of how life (as the term implies) evolves, that's it. Repeating some silly and ignorant mantra doesn't make it true. You can accept established science and have a belief in God without any cognitive dissonance going on. If you want to remain attached to blinkered fundamentalist beliefs that don't allow that then that's your prerogative but it sure doesn't apply to everyone else.
    evolution is simply a lie in which violence and suicide are acceptable.

    Christianity and evolution are mutually exclusive

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Barbarian View Post
    Originally Posted by way 2 go

    atheist believe evolution

    They believe electricity, too, which the consequences of electricity are violence and suicide are acceptable.


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    Quote Originally Posted by way 2 go View Post
    if someone survives cancer that does not mean cancer is not a killer
    if someone believes evolution & does not kill them self or commit violence
    violence and suicide are still acceptable in evolution
    Uh, I already stated that cancer is a killer full stop. You can repeat the same ignorant mantra all that you want it isn't going to make any more sense.


    evolution is simply a lie in which violence and suicide are acceptable.

    Christianity and evolution are mutually exclusive
    Garbage on the first and the second, so "way to go" I suppose.

    Otherwise, plenty of Christians have no hang up with it.
    Well this is fun isn't it?


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    Since evolution is completely consistent with scripture, there is no conflict between evolution and Christianity. There is a conflict between science and YE creationism, but creationism is not Christianity, even if some Christians are creationists. There are more Muslims who are YE creationists than there are YE creationists who are Christians.

    Originally, YE creationism, with it's "life ex nihilo" doctrine was also contrary to scripture, but many YE creationists have now rejected that doctrine.
    This message is hidden because ...

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Barbarian View Post
    Evolution is completely consistent with scripture.


    "In six days" God created the heavens and the Earth and all that is in them.

    Your modern invention is laughably stupid.

    There is no conflict between evolution and Christianity.
    "In the beginning" He created people male and female.

    Your modern invention is laughably stupid.

    There is a conflict between science and YE creationism.
    Show us that. We know all you have is obfuscation and misrepresentation.

    There are more Muslims who are YE creationists than there are YE creationists who are Christians.
    Darwinists love talking about who believes what and how popular an idea is. They think it's evidence.

    Originally, YE creationism, with it's "life ex nihilo" doctrine was also contrary to scripture, but many YE creationists have now rejected that doctrine.
    Nope. God created the universe from nothing.

    Want to learn why that must be true oh I forgot you hate rational dialogue.
    Where is the evidence for a global flood?
    E≈mc2
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lon View Post
    Greatly whitewashed. There is not a 'slight' uptake but a violence rate that is the same as the highest on record these past two years.
    The highest on record is over double what it is now. Did you not look at the data I showed you? And the uptick after Trump's election was tiny, less than a 5% increase. C'mon. Look at the graph. It's right in front of you.

    It 'seems' your data is off.
    It's FBI data. Do you have something more accurate? Show us, with your evidence that it is more accurate.

    We had violence 'among' people, not random acts of violence.
    All violence is among people. That's how it works. And yes, in the past there were lots of cases of random killings. Would you like some examples?

    I don't mind of you use data, but if you aren't willing to look at the converse, then the one-sided is just confirmation bias.
    So far, you haven't shown us your source that refutes FBI data. I can't look at it, if you don't show it to us.
    This message is hidden because ...

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    This whole discussion is based on a false premise, i.e. that "Darwanism" is a kind of religion. It isn't. There is another assumption here as well: that religions should be judged based on how violent or suicidal their adherents are. I think anyone who wants to claim that should look in a mirror and a history book first.

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    Quote Originally Posted by chair View Post
    This whole discussion is based on a false premise, i.e. that "Darwanism" is a kind of religion. It isn't.
    Then engage sensibly over the evidence. You know: Science.
    Where is the evidence for a global flood?
    E≈mc2
    "the best maths don't need no stinkin' numbers"

    "The waters under the 'expanse' were under the crust."
    -Bob B.

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