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Thread: THE APOSTLES DID NOT PREACH THE SAME GOSPEL

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    Quote Originally Posted by ioy1273 View Post
    What part of it needs clarification?
    Hello
    All of it
    I would be willing to answer but what is the question....it is not clear to me

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    Thanks for your comments.

    Quote Originally Posted by DougE View Post
    Hello
    Jesus preached the gospel of the kingdom in Matthew 9:35
    Jesus would just call the gospel of the kingdom the gospel as in Luke 7:22
    Jesus sent the twelve to preach the gospel Luke 9:6, the gospel of the kingdom.
    Howdy

    Yep, the gospel of the kingdom. They went around proclaiming it was at hand. They were not offering it at this time.
    Matt. 10:7 And proclaim as you go, saying, ‘The kingdom of heaven is at hand.’

    I'm sorry but this is still not evidence that the 12 OFFERED the kingdom to Israel.


    Quote Originally Posted by DougE View Post
    Jesus said the gospel of the kingdom would be preached to the world Matthew 24:14
    I'm curious what does the "gospel" of the kingdom mean to you?

    Quote Originally Posted by DougE View Post
    Paul preached the kingdom of God which contains the heavenly kingdom 2 Timothy 4:18
    Why couldn't what Jesus was describing as the kingdom of God be the heavenly kingdom? For example, in the parable of the sower.
    Mk. 4:10 And when he was alone, those around him with the twelve asked him about the parables. 11 And he said to them, “To you has been given the secret of the kingdom of God, but for those outside everything is in parables,

    Jesus said His kingdom was not of this world. Wouldn't that make it heavenly?
    Jn. 18:36 Jesus answered, “My kingdom is not of this world. If my kingdom were of this world, my servants would have been fighting, that I might not be delivered over to the Jews. But my kingdom is not from the world.”

    What was the good news that Philip was preaching about the kingdom of God?
    Acts 8:12 But when they believed Philip as he preached good news about the kingdom of God and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women.
    Wretched man that I am.

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    Quote Originally Posted by turbosixx View Post
    Thanks for your comments.


    Howdy

    Yep, the gospel of the kingdom. They went around proclaiming it was at hand. They were not offering it at this time.
    Matt. 10:7 And proclaim as you go, saying, ‘The kingdom of heaven is at hand.’

    I'm sorry but this is still not evidence that the 12 OFFERED the kingdom to Israel.



    I'm curious what does the "gospel" of the kingdom mean to you?


    Why couldn't what Jesus was describing as the kingdom of God be the heavenly kingdom? For example, in the parable of the sower.
    Mk. 4:10 And when he was alone, those around him with the twelve asked him about the parables. 11 And he said to them, “To you has been given the secret of the kingdom of God, but for those outside everything is in parables,

    Jesus said His kingdom was not of this world. Wouldn't that make it heavenly?
    Jn. 18:36 Jesus answered, “My kingdom is not of this world. If my kingdom were of this world, my servants would have been fighting, that I might not be delivered over to the Jews. But my kingdom is not from the world.”

    What was the good news that Philip was preaching about the kingdom of God?
    Acts 8:12 But when they believed Philip as he preached good news about the kingdom of God and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women.
    Hello
    In Matthew 10:7 they were offering the kingdom as being at hand. If Israel repented and believed they would have received it. It was postponed by our dispensation of grace.

    The gospel of the kingdom is the prophetic Davidic kingdom on earth in which Christ reigns for a thousand years. It is a heavenly kingdom come down to earth. The heavenly kingdom in heavenly places was not being offered to Israel; Paul speaks of it in his epistles as being the position for the body of Christ which was not revealed until Paul was saved.

    Philip was preaching the kingdom of God, the Davidic kingdom, and preaching the name of Christ.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DougE View Post
    Hello
    All of it
    I would be willing to answer but what is the question....it is not clear to me
    I have a better question for you.

    Why are you even reading
    the gospel of anyone other than Jesus?

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    Quote Originally Posted by ioy1273 View Post
    I have a better question for you.

    Why are you even reading
    the gospel of anyone other than Jesus?
    Hello
    I am not going outside of the Bible. All of the Bible is by inspiration of Jesus 2 Timothy 3:16.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DougE View Post
    James was written to Jews (James 1:1) . . .
    Note that the book of James was written to "the twelve tribes" (James 1:1), which is the same as addressing people in the Church (James 5:14), people with faith in Jesus Christ (James 2:1, James 1:3) (that is, Christians, whether Jews or Gentiles), people who have been born again (James 1:18, cf. 1 Peter 1:23), who are waiting for Jesus to return (James 5:7).

    For just as the Gentile Ruth (a genetic forbear of Israel's Messiah: Matthew 1:5-16, Luke 3:23-32) could say to the Israelite Naomi: "thy people shall be my people, and thy God my God" (Ruth 1:16), so Gentiles in the Church have been grafted into Israel (Romans 11:17,24, Ephesians 2:12,19, Galatians 3:29).

    That is, all Jews in the Church remain members of whichever tribe of Israel they were born into (Romans 11:1, Acts 4:36). And all Gentiles in the Church have been grafted by God into Israel (Romans 11:17,24, Ephesians 2:12,19, Galatians 3:29), and so have been grafted by God into its various tribes (cf. Ezekiel 47:21-23). So the entire Church is the twelve tribes of Israel (Revelation 21:9,12; 1 Peter 2:9-10). This is necessary, for all those in the Church are saved only by the New Covenant (Matthew 26:28; 1 Corinthians 11:25; 2 Corinthians 3:6, Hebrews 9:15) which God has made only with Israel (Jeremiah 31:31-34, John 4:22b). John 10:16 refers to the "other sheep" of Gentile Christians being brought into "this fold" of Israel, which is the "one fold" of the Church (1 Corinthians 12:13, Ephesians 4:4-6, Revelation 21:9,12). A Gentile Christian can pray and ask which tribe of Israel he has been grafted into by God, and he will receive an answer if he asks in faith (cf. Matthew 21:22) without any wavering (cf. James 1:6-7).

    Also, all those in the Church, whether Jews (Acts 22:3) or Gentiles (Romans 16:4b), have become spiritually-circumcised Jews if they have undergone the spiritual circumcision of water-immersion (burial) baptism into Jesus Christ (Romans 2:29, Philippians 3:3, Colossians 2:11-13).

    Quote Originally Posted by DougE View Post
    James was written to Jews (James 1:1) not to show Christians to be saved by faith plus works.
    Note that even the apostle Paul showed Christians to be ultimately saved by faith plus works (Romans 2:6-8). For whereas initial salvation is by grace through faith in Jesus Christ without any works at all on our part (Romans 4:1-5, Ephesians 2:8-9, Titus 3:5; 2 Timothy 1:9), other passages show that Christians must have both faith and continued works of faith (1 Thessalonians 1:3, Galatians 5:6b, Titus 3:8) (not works of the letter of the Old Covenant Mosaic law), if they are to obtain ultimate salvation (Romans 2:6-8, James 2:24, Matthew 7:21, Matthew 25:26,30, Philippians 2:12b, Philippians 3:11-14; 2 Corinthians 5:9, Hebrews 5:9, Hebrews 6:10-12; 2 Peter 1:10-11, John 15:2a; 1 John 2:17b). For Christians must continue to do righteous deeds if they are to continue to be righteous (1 John 3:7, James 2:24,26). And there is no assurance that Christians will choose to do that, instead of wrongly employing their free will to become utterly lazy without repentance, to the ultimate loss of their salvation (Matthew 25:26,30, John 15:2a).

    Quote Originally Posted by DougE View Post
    Abraham was justified by believing God not by works (Romans 4:2).
    Initially (Romans 4:2-3), but not ultimately (James 2:21-24).

    Also, regarding the "whereof to glory" part of Romans 4:2, note that just as it is impossible for people to believe, or to continue to believe, all of the right things, apart from God's miraculous gift of faith (Ephesians 2:8, John 6:65, Hebrews 12:2), and some measure of His Holy Spirit (1 Corinthians 1:18 to 2:16), so it is also impossible for believers to perform, or to continue to perform, all of the right actions, apart from God making it possible for them to do that (Philippians 2:12-13, John 15:4-5). And it is impossible for people to repent, if a sin is committed, apart from God making it possible to repent (2 Timothy 2:25, Acts 11:18, Romans 8:13). So even if people continue to believe, act, and repent as they ought to, they must stay so humble that they never give themselves any credit or glory (Luke 17:10, Galatians 6:14; 1 Corinthians 1:29,31). But when Jesus Christ judges believers at His future, Second Coming, He will give obedient believers some credit (Matthew 25:21). Also, God does glorify believers (Romans 8:30).

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    Quote Originally Posted by turbosixx View Post
    Jesus said His kingdom was not of this world. Wouldn't that make it heavenly?
    John 18:36 . . . My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence.

    This means that Jesus Christ's future, physical reign on the earth with the physically resurrected Church (Revelation 20:4-6, Revelation 5:10, Revelation 2:26-29) will not be of this world in the sense that it will not come by worldly means, such as by the Church fighting physically to establish it (2 Corinthians 10:3-4, Matthew 26:52, Matthew 5:39). Instead, it will come only by Jesus Christ Himself returning physically from heaven to establish it (Revelation 19:7 to 20:6, Zechariah 14:3-21). Also, after the future Millennium and subsequent events (Revelation 20:7-15), a New Earth, as in a new surface for the earth, will be created, and God's Kingdom will continue forever on the New Earth (Revelation 21:1 to 22:5).

    (See also post #64 above)

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    Quote Originally Posted by bibleverse2 View Post
    Note that the book of James was written to "the twelve tribes" (James 1:1), which is the same as addressing people in the Church (James 5:14),
    people with faith in Jesus Christ (James 2:1, James 1:3) (that is, Christians, whether Jews or Gentiles), people who have been born again (James 1:18, cf. 1 Peter 1:23), who are waiting for Jesus to return (James 5:7).

    For just as the Gentile Ruth (a genetic forbear of Israel's Messiah: Matthew 1:5-16, Luke 3:23-32) could say to the Israelite Naomi: "thy people shall be my people, and thy God my God" (Ruth 1:16), so Gentiles in the Church have been grafted into Israel (Romans 11:17,24, Ephesians 2:12,19, Galatians 3:29).

    That is, all Jews in the Church remain members of whichever tribe of Israel they were born into (Romans 11:1, Acts 4:36). And all Gentiles in the Church have been grafted by God into Israel (Romans 11:17,24, Ephesians 2:12,19, Galatians 3:29), and so have been grafted by God into its various tribes (cf. Ezekiel 47:21-23). So the entire Church is the twelve tribes of Israel (Revelation 21:9,12; 1 Peter 2:9-10). This is necessary, for all those in the Church are saved only by the New Covenant (Matthew 26:28; 1 Corinthians 11:25; 2 Corinthians 3:6, Hebrews 9:15) which God has made only with Israel (Jeremiah 31:31-34, John 4:22b). John 10:16 refers to the "other sheep" of Gentile Christians being brought into "this fold" of Israel, which is the "one fold" of the Church (1 Corinthians 12:13, Ephesians 4:4-6, Revelation 21:9,12). A Gentile Christian can pray and ask which tribe of Israel he has been grafted into by God, and he will receive an answer if he asks in faith (cf. Matthew 21:22) without any wavering (cf. James 1:6-7).

    Also, all those in the Church, whether Jews (Acts 22:3) or Gentiles (Romans 16:4b), have become spiritually-circumcised Jews if they have undergone the spiritual circumcision of water-immersion (burial) baptism into Jesus Christ (Romans 2:29, Philippians 3:3, Colossians 2:11-13).



    Note that even the apostle Paul showed Christians to be ultimately saved by faith plus works (Romans 2:6-8). For whereas initial salvation is by grace through faith in Jesus Christ without any works at all on our part (Romans 4:1-5, Ephesians 2:8-9, Titus 3:5; 2 Timothy 1:9), other passages show that Christians must have both faith and continued works of faith (1 Thessalonians 1:3, Galatians 5:6b, Titus 3:8) (not works of the letter of the Old Covenant Mosaic law), if they are to obtain ultimate salvation (Romans 2:6-8, James 2:24, Matthew 7:21, Matthew 25:26,30, Philippians 2:12b, Philippians 3:11-14; 2 Corinthians 5:9, Hebrews 5:9, Hebrews 6:10-12; 2 Peter 1:10-11, John 15:2a; 1 John 2:17b). For Christians must continue to do righteous deeds if they are to continue to be righteous (1 John 3:7, James 2:24,26). And there is no assurance that Christians will choose to do that, instead of wrongly employing their free will to become utterly lazy without repentance, to the ultimate loss of their salvation (Matthew 25:26,30, John 15:2a).



    Initially (Romans 4:2-3), but not ultimately (James 2:21-24).

    Also, regarding the "whereof to glory" part of Romans 4:2, note that just as it is impossible for people to believe, or to continue to believe, all of the right things, apart from God's miraculous gift of faith (Ephesians 2:8, John 6:65, Hebrews 12:2), and some measure of His Holy Spirit (1 Corinthians 1:18 to 2:16), so it is also impossible for believers to perform, or to continue to perform, all of the right actions, apart from God making it possible for them to do that (Philippians 2:12-13, John 15:4-5). And it is impossible for people to repent, if a sin is committed, apart from God making it possible to repent (2 Timothy 2:25, Acts 11:18, Romans 8:13). So even if people continue to believe, act, and repent as they ought to, they must stay so humble that they never give themselves any credit or glory (Luke 17:10, Galatians 6:14; 1 Corinthians 1:29,31). But when Jesus Christ judges believers at His future, Second Coming, He will give obedient believers some credit (Matthew 25:21). Also, God does glorify believers (Romans 8:30).
    Hello

    James was addressing the twelve tribes of Israel which were scattered abroad during the persecution of Acts 8 and also will be in the tribulation. It is not addressed to the body of Christ, but rather the believing remnant of Israel, the church of God which Paul persecuted.

    The church the Body of Christ is not grafted into Israel. In Romans 11:17, "thou being a wild olive tree" is the Gentile new testament saints, part of the election of grace. The remnant of Gentile new testament believers is the wild olive tree, grafted among the fruitfull branches of the believing Jews, the good olive tree. The broken off branches are unbelieving Israel. This is not the body of Christ but the church of God Paul is speaking of, which believed the preaching of Peter and the apostles.

    We can not lose salvation; we have been justified (Romans 3:21-28) without the law and works (Titus 3:5).

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    Quote Originally Posted by bibleverse2 View Post
    Note that the book of James was written to "the twelve tribes" (James 1:1), which is the same as addressing people in the Church (James 5:14), people with faith in Jesus Christ (James 2:1, James 1:3) (that is, Christians, whether Jews or Gentiles), people who have been born again (James 1:18, cf. 1 Peter 1:23), who are waiting for Jesus to return (James 5:7).

    For just as the Gentile Ruth (a genetic forbear of Israel's Messiah: Matthew 1:5-16, Luke 3:23-32) could say to the Israelite Naomi: "thy people shall be my people, and thy God my God" (Ruth 1:16), so Gentiles in the Church have been grafted into Israel (Romans 11:17,24, Ephesians 2:12,19, Galatians 3:29).

    That is, all Jews in the Church remain members of whichever tribe of Israel they were born into (Romans 11:1, Acts 4:36). And all Gentiles in the Church have been grafted by God into Israel (Romans 11:17,24, Ephesians 2:12,19, Galatians 3:29), and so have been grafted by God into its various tribes (cf. Ezekiel 47:21-23). So the entire Church is the twelve tribes of Israel (Revelation 21:9,12; 1 Peter 2:9-10). This is necessary, for all those in the Church are saved only by the New Covenant (Matthew 26:28; 1 Corinthians 11:25; 2 Corinthians 3:6, Hebrews 9:15) which God has made only with Israel (Jeremiah 31:31-34, John 4:22b). John 10:16 refers to the "other sheep" of Gentile Christians being brought into "this fold" of Israel, which is the "one fold" of the Church (1 Corinthians 12:13, Ephesians 4:4-6, Revelation 21:9,12). A Gentile Christian can pray and ask which tribe of Israel he has been grafted into by God, and he will receive an answer if he asks in faith (cf. Matthew 21:22) without any wavering (cf. James 1:6-7).

    Also, all those in the Church, whether Jews (Acts 22:3) or Gentiles (Romans 16:4b), have become spiritually-circumcised Jews if they have undergone the spiritual circumcision of water-immersion (burial) baptism into Jesus Christ (Romans 2:29, Philippians 3:3, Colossians 2:11-13).



    Note that even the apostle Paul showed Christians to be ultimately saved by faith plus works (Romans 2:6-8). For whereas initial salvation is by grace through faith in Jesus Christ without any works at all on our part (Romans 4:1-5, Ephesians 2:8-9, Titus 3:5; 2 Timothy 1:9), other passages show that Christians must have both faith and continued works of faith (1 Thessalonians 1:3, Galatians 5:6b, Titus 3:8) (not works of the letter of the Old Covenant Mosaic law), if they are to obtain ultimate salvation (Romans 2:6-8, James 2:24, Matthew 7:21, Matthew 25:26,30, Philippians 2:12b, Philippians 3:11-14; 2 Corinthians 5:9, Hebrews 5:9, Hebrews 6:10-12; 2 Peter 1:10-11, John 15:2a; 1 John 2:17b). For Christians must continue to do righteous deeds if they are to continue to be righteous (1 John 3:7, James 2:24,26). And there is no assurance that Christians will choose to do that, instead of wrongly employing their free will to become utterly lazy without repentance, to the ultimate loss of their salvation (Matthew 25:26,30, John 15:2a).



    Initially (Romans 4:2-3), but not ultimately (James 2:21-24).

    Also, regarding the "whereof to glory" part of Romans 4:2, note that just as it is impossible for people to believe, or to continue to believe, all of the right things, apart from God's miraculous gift of faith (Ephesians 2:8, John 6:65, Hebrews 12:2), and some measure of His Holy Spirit (1 Corinthians 1:18 to 2:16), so it is also impossible for believers to perform, or to continue to perform, all of the right actions, apart from God making it possible for them to do that (Philippians 2:12-13, John 15:4-5). And it is impossible for people to repent, if a sin is committed, apart from God making it possible to repent (2 Timothy 2:25, Acts 11:18, Romans 8:13). So even if people continue to believe, act, and repent as they ought to, they must stay so humble that they never give themselves any credit or glory (Luke 17:10, Galatians 6:14; 1 Corinthians 1:29,31). But when Jesus Christ judges believers at His future, Second Coming, He will give obedient believers some credit (Matthew 25:21). Also, God does glorify believers (Romans 8:30).
    Hello
    I am going to respond to your post in segments. When I say the body I am referring to the body of Christ, the church today. Your statements are in quotes and my responses below your statements.

    "So the entire Church is the twelve tribes of Israel (Revelation 21:9,12; 1 Peter 2:9-10)."

    Revelation 21:9 speaks of the bride which is the new Jerusalem not the body (Revelation 21:10).
    Revelation 21:12 is the children of Israel not the body but God's people (Exodus 3:10).
    1 Peter 2:9-10 refers to the believing remnant of Israel not the body (Exodus 19:5-6 Revelation 5:10).

    "This is necessary, for all those in the Church are saved only by the New Covenant (Matthew 26:28; 1 Corinthians 11:25; 2 Corinthians 3:6, Hebrews 9:15) which God has made only with Israel (Jeremiah 31:31-34, John 4:22b)."

    The body is not under the new covenant.
    Matthew 26:28 Hebrews 9:15 Jesus shed his blood for many which is for the transgressions Israel committed under the first testament

    "John 10:16 refers to the "other sheep" of Gentile Christians being brought into "this fold" of Israel, which is the "one fold" of the Church (1 Corinthians 12:13, Ephesians 4:4-6, Revelation 21:9,12)."

    The other sheep is the scattered Jews who will be brought back to the fold of the believing remnant of Israel and will be one fold which is one nation (Jeremiah 23:3 Ezekiel 37:22). It is not the body which 1 Corinthians 12:13 and Ephesians 4:4 speaks of.

    "A Gentile Christian can pray and ask which tribe of Israel he has been grafted into by God, and he will receive an answer if he asks in faith (cf. Matthew 21:22) without any wavering (cf. James 1:6-7)."

    Which verse says a Christian is made a member of any tribe of Israel.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bibleverse2 View Post
    Note that the book of James was written to "the twelve tribes" (James 1:1), which is the same as addressing people in the Church (James 5:14), people with faith in Jesus Christ (James 2:1, James 1:3) (that is, Christians, whether Jews or Gentiles), people who have been born again (James 1:18, cf. 1 Peter 1:23), who are waiting for Jesus to return (James 5:7).

    For just as the Gentile Ruth (a genetic forbear of Israel's Messiah: Matthew 1:5-16, Luke 3:23-32) could say to the Israelite Naomi: "thy people shall be my people, and thy God my God" (Ruth 1:16), so Gentiles in the Church have been grafted into Israel (Romans 11:17,24, Ephesians 2:12,19, Galatians 3:29).

    That is, all Jews in the Church remain members of whichever tribe of Israel they were born into (Romans 11:1, Acts 4:36). And all Gentiles in the Church have been grafted by God into Israel (Romans 11:17,24, Ephesians 2:12,19, Galatians 3:29), and so have been grafted by God into its various tribes (cf. Ezekiel 47:21-23). So the entire Church is the twelve tribes of Israel (Revelation 21:9,12; 1 Peter 2:9-10). This is necessary, for all those in the Church are saved only by the New Covenant (Matthew 26:28; 1 Corinthians 11:25; 2 Corinthians 3:6, Hebrews 9:15) which God has made only with Israel (Jeremiah 31:31-34, John 4:22b). John 10:16 refers to the "other sheep" of Gentile Christians being brought into "this fold" of Israel, which is the "one fold" of the Church (1 Corinthians 12:13, Ephesians 4:4-6, Revelation 21:9,12). A Gentile Christian can pray and ask which tribe of Israel he has been grafted into by God, and he will receive an answer if he asks in faith (cf. Matthew 21:22) without any wavering (cf. James 1:6-7).

    Also, all those in the Church, whether Jews (Acts 22:3) or Gentiles (Romans 16:4b), have become spiritually-circumcised Jews if they have undergone the spiritual circumcision of water-immersion (burial) baptism into Jesus Christ (Romans 2:29, Philippians 3:3, Colossians 2:11-13).



    Note that even the apostle Paul showed Christians to be ultimately saved by faith plus works (Romans 2:6-8). For whereas initial salvation is by grace through faith in Jesus Christ without any works at all on our part (Romans 4:1-5, Ephesians 2:8-9, Titus 3:5; 2 Timothy 1:9), other passages show that Christians must have both faith and continued works of faith (1 Thessalonians 1:3, Galatians 5:6b, Titus 3:8) (not works of the letter of the Old Covenant Mosaic law), if they are to obtain ultimate salvation (Romans 2:6-8, James 2:24, Matthew 7:21, Matthew 25:26,30, Philippians 2:12b, Philippians 3:11-14; 2 Corinthians 5:9, Hebrews 5:9, Hebrews 6:10-12; 2 Peter 1:10-11, John 15:2a; 1 John 2:17b). For Christians must continue to do righteous deeds if they are to continue to be righteous (1 John 3:7, James 2:24,26). And there is no assurance that Christians will choose to do that, instead of wrongly employing their free will to become utterly lazy without repentance, to the ultimate loss of their salvation (Matthew 25:26,30, John 15:2a).



    Initially (Romans 4:2-3), but not ultimately (James 2:21-24).

    Also, regarding the "whereof to glory" part of Romans 4:2, note that just as it is impossible for people to believe, or to continue to believe, all of the right things, apart from God's miraculous gift of faith (Ephesians 2:8, John 6:65, Hebrews 12:2), and some measure of His Holy Spirit (1 Corinthians 1:18 to 2:16), so it is also impossible for believers to perform, or to continue to perform, all of the right actions, apart from God making it possible for them to do that (Philippians 2:12-13, John 15:4-5). And it is impossible for people to repent, if a sin is committed, apart from God making it possible to repent (2 Timothy 2:25, Acts 11:18, Romans 8:13). So even if people continue to believe, act, and repent as they ought to, they must stay so humble that they never give themselves any credit or glory (Luke 17:10, Galatians 6:14; 1 Corinthians 1:29,31). But when Jesus Christ judges believers at His future, Second Coming, He will give obedient believers some credit (Matthew 25:21). Also, God does glorify believers (Romans 8:30).
    Hello

    "Note that even the apostle Paul showed Christians to be ultimately saved by faith plus works (Romans 2:6-8). "

    Romans 2:6-8 is saying that this is how God will judge but Romans will go on to show that no one can escape judgment and there is none righteous (Romans 3:10).

    "For whereas initial salvation is by grace through faith in Jesus Christ without any works at all on our part (Romans 4:1-5, Ephesians 2:8-9, Titus 3:5; 2 Timothy 1:9), other passages show that Christians must have both faith and continued works of faith (1 Thessalonians 1:3, Galatians 5:6b, Titus 3:8)"

    1 Thessalonians 1:3 does not say we lose salvation. We are saved unto good works. not by them (Ephesians 2:10) We labour to please God and for reward (1 Corinthians 3:8).
    Titus 3:8 says works are good and profitable unto men not necessary for salvation.

    "(not works of the letter of the Old Covenant Mosaic law), if they are to obtain ultimate salvation (Romans 2:6-8, James 2:24, Matthew 7:21, Matthew 25:26,30, Philippians 2:12b, Philippians 3:11-14; 2 Corinthians 5:9, Hebrews 5:9, Hebrews 6:10-12; 2 Peter 1:10-11, John 15:2a; 1 John 2:17b). For Christians must continue to do righteous deeds if they are to continue to be righteous (1 John 3:7, James 2:24,26)."

    James 2:24 Abraham was justified by his works in that he was called the friend of God. His works did not justify him unto eternal life, his works demonstrated his faith. He was justified as acting righteously under the covenant that God made with him in Genesis 17:10.
    Matthew 7:21 is not talking about the body but Israel. This was for Israel to enter the Davidic kingdom on earth.
    Matthew 25:30 This servant was not cast into hell but outer darkness at the coming of the Lord Jesus and would not enter the Davidic kingdom.
    Philippians 2:12 is saying to work out your salvation to be blameless (verse 15).

    "And there is no assurance that Christians will choose to do that, instead of wrongly employing their free will to become utterly lazy without repentance, to the ultimate loss of their salvation (Matthew 25:26,30, John 15:2a)."

    John 15:2 is speaking of casting away unfruitful branches. Israel was to believe the gospel of the kingdom and bear fruit to enter the Davidic kingdom.

  14. #86
    TOL Subscriber turbosixx's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DougE View Post
    Hello
    In Matthew 10:7 they were offering the kingdom as being at hand. If Israel repented and believed they would have received it.
    Again, this is them preaching it is at hand. Where are they offering it?

    I suggest to you that that is how one gets into the kingdom now. That is exactly what Paul was going around preaching to both Jews and Gentiles.
    Acts 20:21 testifying both to Jews and to Greeks of repentance toward God and of faith in our Lord Jesus Christ.
    Paul later says he was declaring the kingdom.
    Acts 20:25 And now, behold, I know that none of you among whom I have gone about proclaiming the kingdom will see my face again.

    Quote Originally Posted by DougE View Post
    Philip was preaching the kingdom of God, the Davidic kingdom, and preaching the name of Christ.
    What was the good news about it if it hasn't come in 2,000+ years now? Did you notice he doesn't say it was at hand?
    Wretched man that I am.

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    TOL Subscriber turbosixx's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bibleverse2 View Post
    John 18:36 . . . My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence.

    This means that Jesus Christ's future, physical reign on the earth with the physically resurrected Church (Revelation 20:4-6, Revelation 5:10, Revelation 2:26-29) will not be of this world in the sense that it will not come by worldly means, such as by the Church fighting physically to establish it (2 Corinthians 10:3-4, Matthew 26:52, Matthew 5:39). Instead, it will come only by Jesus Christ Himself returning physically from heaven to establish it (Revelation 19:7 to 20:6, Zechariah 14:3-21). Also, after the future Millennium and subsequent events (Revelation 20:7-15), a New Earth, as in a new surface for the earth, will be created, and God's Kingdom will continue forever on the New Earth (Revelation 21:1 to 22:5).

    (See also post #64 above)
    Jesus went around preaching the kingdom was at hand. Can you point out one of those passages that describe the kingdom on earth you envision?
    Wretched man that I am.

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    Quote Originally Posted by turbosixx View Post
    Again, this is them preaching it is at hand. Where are they offering it?

    I suggest to you that that is how one gets into the kingdom now. That is exactly what Paul was going around preaching to both Jews and Gentiles.
    Acts 20:21 testifying both to Jews and to Greeks of repentance toward God and of faith in our Lord Jesus Christ.
    Paul later says he was declaring the kingdom.
    Acts 20:25 And now, behold, I know that none of you among whom I have gone about proclaiming the kingdom will see my face again.



    What was the good news about it if it hasn't come in 2,000+ years now? Did you notice he doesn't say it was at hand?
    Hello
    "What was the good news about it if it hasn't come in 2,000+ years now?..." you ask:

    The kingdom will be fulfilled and realized by all those in the past when Christ comes (1 Peter 1:3-4 Matthew 8:11).

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    TOL Subscriber turbosixx's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DougE View Post
    Hello
    "What was the good news about it if it hasn't come in 2,000+ years now?..." you ask:

    The kingdom will be fulfilled and realized by all those in the past when Christ comes (1 Peter 1:3-4 Matthew 8:11).
    From 1 Pt. 1:3 he has caused us to be born again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead

    Can we experience this now?
    Wretched man that I am.

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    Quote Originally Posted by turbosixx View Post
    From 1 Pt. 1:3 he has caused us to be born again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead

    Can we experience this now?
    Hello
    The kingdom is not being offered to Israel now, Gentile and Jew are saved freely by faith in the redemption found in Christ in this dispensation of grace.

  19. The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to DougE For Your Post:

    JudgeRightly (June 19th, 2019),Right Divider (June 19th, 2019),steko (June 19th, 2019)

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