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Thread: THE APOSTLES DID NOT PREACH THE SAME GOSPEL

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    Quote Originally Posted by turbosixx View Post
    Could you please describe this for me a little more.

    So you're saying that Christ will come and set up His kingdom separating the Jews and Gentiles for a 1,000 years? Then He leaves and then Jews have to live among the Gentiles until the harvest?
    Hello
    At the end of the tribulation unbelieving Israel is separated from believing Israel. The believing remnant of Israel enters the kingdom along with the Gentile nations that blessed Israel. Christ will reign for a thousand years in the kingdom. Believing Israel will teach the nations and reign with Christ.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DougE View Post
    Hello
    At the end of the tribulation unbelieving Israel is separated from believing Israel.
    Can we agree that unbelieving Israel are deniers of Christ and believing Israel are Christians?


    Quote Originally Posted by DougE View Post
    The believing remnant of Israel enters the kingdom along with the Gentile
    Doesn't what you described sound like the church.
    25 But now that faith has come, we are no longer under a guardian, 26 for in Christ Jesus you are all sons of God, through faith. 27 For as many of you as were baptized into Christ have put on Christ. 28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is no male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus.

    Quote Originally Posted by DougE View Post
    Believing Israel will teach the nations and reign with Christ.
    Why would they need to teach the nations? Won't it be very very obvious that Jesus has returned and set up his kingdom? Won't He be the #1 power in the world?


    You could really prove your point if you will just point to book, chapter and verse where the kingdom was offered to Israel by the 12 as you have claimed.
    Last edited by turbosixx; June 14th, 2019 at 01:34 PM.
    Wretched man that I am.

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    Quote Originally Posted by turbosixx View Post
    Can we agree that unbelieving Israel are deniers of Christ and believing Israel are Christians?



    Doesn't what you described sound like the church.
    25 But now that faith has come, we are no longer under a guardian, 26 for in Christ Jesus you are all sons of God, through faith. 27 For as many of you as were baptized into Christ have put on Christ. 28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is no male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus.

    Why would they need to teach the nations? Won't it be very very obvious that Jesus has returned and set up his kingdom? Won't He be the #1 power in the world?


    You could really prove your point if you will just point to book, chapter and verse where the kingdom was offered to Israel by the 12 as you have claimed.
    Hello
    Jesus and Israel will teach the nations as can be read in Micah 4:2 and Matthew 28:19

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    Quote Originally Posted by DougE View Post
    The kingdom was offered to Israel but they rejected Jesus as Messiah and King and stoned Stephen. Israel diminished and the dispensation of grace postponed the kingdom.
    Note that the Kingdom of God was not postponed, for it is now in heaven (2 Timothy 4:18, Hebrews 12:22-24) and is now on the earth spiritually within Christians (Romans 14:17, Luke 17:21), whether Jews or Gentiles. But in the future the Kingdom will also come fully upon the earth as it is in heaven (Matthew 6:10). It will also be physically (Luke 22:30, Matthew 19:28) on the earth (Revelation 5:10), first during the future Millennium (Revelation 20:4-6, Revelation 2:26-29, Psalms 66:3-4, Psalms 72:8-11, Zechariah 14:3-21), and then forever on the New Earth (Revelation 21:1-8), as in a new surface for the earth.

    Jesus Christ's Kingdom is Israel (John 1:49, John 12:13-15, John 19:19, Luke 22:30). And at His future, Second Coming, He will sit on the earthly throne of King David (Luke 1:32-33, Isaiah 9:7) and restore the kingdom to Israel (Acts 1:6-7, Acts 3:20-21). Jesus is, in His humanity, the son of David (Matthew 1:1, Matthew 21:15-16, Romans 1:3), of the house of David (Luke 1:69). So at Jesus' Second Coming, He will restore the tabernacle, the house, of David (Isaiah 16:5, Amos 9:11) to its royal glory (2 Samuel 5:12) which it had lost (2 Kings 17:21a). And Jesus will fulfill the prophecy and prayer of 2 Samuel 7:16-29. And He will bring salvation to all of the still-living, non-Christian elect Jews of the house of David, for they (along with all other still-living, non-Christian elect Jews) will become Christians when they see Jesus at His Second Coming (Zechariah 12:10-14, Zechariah 13:1,6, Romans 11:26-31). And so they will all become part of the Church at that time, for there are no Christians outside of the Church (Ephesians 4:4-6).

    After Jesus Christ's future, Second Coming (Revelation 19:7 to 20:3, Zechariah 14:3-5) will occur the Millennium (Revelation 20:4-6, Zechariah 14:8-21), during which time the Gentile nations will come to seek the returned Jesus ruling the whole earth (Zechariah 8:22, Zechariah 14:9, Psalms 72:8-11) on the restored throne of David (Isaiah 9:7) in the earthly Jerusalem (Isaiah 2:1-4, Zechariah 14:8-11,16-19). And the physically resurrected Church will reign on the earth with Jesus during the Millennium (Revelation 20:4-6, Revelation 5:10, Revelation 2:26-29). For the Church is Israel (Romans 11:1,17,24, Ephesians 2:12,19, Galatians 3:29, Revelation 21:9,12; 1 Peter 2:9-10).

    Quote Originally Posted by DougE View Post
    Paul turned to the Gentiles with the gospel of grace.
    Note that the Gospel of grace was also preached by the other apostles of Jesus Christ:

    John 1:16 And of his fulness have all we received, and grace for grace.
    17 For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.

    Acts 4:33 And with great power gave the apostles witness of the resurrection of the Lord Jesus: and great grace was upon them all.

    Acts 15:11 . . . we [spoken by Peter] believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we shall be saved . . .

    1 Peter 5:12 . . . this is the true grace of God wherein ye stand.

    1 Peter 5:10 . . . the God of all grace, who hath called us unto his eternal glory by Christ Jesus . . .

    1 Peter 4:10 . . . as good stewards of the manifold grace of God.

    1 Peter 1:10 Of which salvation the prophets have enquired and searched diligently, who prophesied of the grace that should come unto you . . .

    James 4:6 . . . God resisteth the proud, but giveth grace unto the humble.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DougE View Post
    Abraham was justified unto eternal life by believing God (Genesis 12:2 Romans 4:3).

    Abraham was justified by works under the covenant (Genesis 17:10) and declared to be the friend of God (James 2:23) but he was already justified by faith alone.
    Note that the issue in James 2:14-24 is how Christians are to be saved from hell (James 2:14b), how they are to be justified before God (James 2:23-24), just as the issue in Romans 4:1-5 is how Christians are to be saved from hell, how they are to be justified before God (cf. Romans 5:9, Romans 1:16). That is why both James 2:23-24 and Romans 4:1-5 employ the same Old Testament verse (Genesis 15:6, Romans 4:3, James 2:23). Romans 4:1-5 refers to initial salvation/justification before God, which is based on faith without any works (Ephesians 2:8-9, Titus 3:5), while James 2:23-24 refers to ultimate salvation/justification before God, which is based on both faith and works (Romans 2:6-8, Matthew 7:21, Philippians 2:12b; 2 Corinthians 5:9, Hebrews 5:9; 2 Peter 1:10-11, Hebrews 6:10-12, Philippians 3:11-14; 1 John 2:17b), as in works of faith (1 Thessalonians 1:3, Galatians 5:6b, Titus 3:8) (not works of the letter of the Old Covenant Mosaic law).

    For faith is like a body and works of faith are like the breathing (spirit) of that body (James 2:26). Faith without works of faith will die, just as a body without breathing will die (James 2:26). That is why our ultimate salvation will depend on both our faith and our continued works of faith (Romans 2:6-8, James 2:24, Matthew 7:21). If a Christian refuses to continue to perform works of faith, without repentance, he will ultimately lose his salvation (Matthew 25:26,30, John 15:2a), just as if someone stops himself from breathing by hanging himself, he will die.

    The breathing analogy (James 2:26) does not include the automatic aspect of breathing, for Christians must be careful to maintain good works (Titus 3:8). The analogies in the Bible do not include every aspect of the analogous thing. For example, Christians, born-again people, being like newborn babies (1 Peter 2:2) does not mean that Christians have no ability to talk, walk or control their bowels.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bibleverse2 View Post
    Note that the issue in James 2:14-24 is how Christians are to be saved from hell (James 2:14b), how they are to be justified before God (James 2:23-24), just as the issue in Romans 4:1-5 is how Christians are to be saved from hell, how they are to be justified before God (cf. Romans 5:9, Romans 1:16). That is why both James 2:23-24 and Romans 4:1-5 employ the same Old Testament verse (Genesis 15:6, Romans 4:3, James 2:23). Romans 4:1-5 refers to initial salvation/justification before God, which is based on faith without any works (Ephesians 2:8-9, Titus 3:5), while James 2:23-24 refers to ultimate salvation/justification before God, which is based on both faith and works (Romans 2:6-8, Matthew 7:21, Philippians 2:12b; 2 Corinthians 5:9, Hebrews 5:9; 2 Peter 1:10-11, Hebrews 6:10-12, Philippians 3:11-14; 1 John 2:17b), as in works of faith (1 Thessalonians 1:3, Galatians 5:6b, Titus 3:8) (not works of the letter of the Old Covenant Mosaic law).

    For faith is like a body and works of faith are like the breathing (spirit) of that body (James 2:26). Faith without works of faith will die, just as a body without breathing will die (James 2:26). That is why our ultimate salvation will depend on both our faith and our continued works of faith (Romans 2:6-8, James 2:24, Matthew 7:21). If a Christian refuses to continue to perform works of faith, without repentance, he will ultimately lose his salvation (Matthew 25:26,30, John 15:2a), just as if someone stops himself from breathing by hanging himself, he will die.

    The breathing analogy (James 2:26) does not include the automatic aspect of breathing, for Christians must be careful to maintain good works (Titus 3:8). The analogies in the Bible do not include every aspect of the analogous thing. For example, Christians, born-again people, being like newborn babies (1 Peter 2:2) does not mean that Christians have no ability to talk, walk or control their bowels.
    Hello
    James was written to Jews (James 1:1) not to show Christians to be saved by faith plus works.
    Abraham was justified by believing God not by works (Romans 4:2).

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    Quote Originally Posted by DougE View Post
    Hello
    Jesus and Israel will teach the nations as can be read in Micah 4:2 and Matthew 28:19
    Please explain how it has not already happened?

    Rom. 10:17 So faith comes from hearing, and hearing through the word of Christ.
    18 But I ask, have they not heard? Indeed they have, for
    “Their voice has gone out to all the earth,
    and their words to the ends of the world.”



    You, nor anyone else, has supported the claim that the 12 offered the kingdom on earth to Israel.
    Wretched man that I am.

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    Quote Originally Posted by turbosixx View Post
    Please explain how it has not already happened?

    Rom. 10:17 So faith comes from hearing, and hearing through the word of Christ.
    18 But I ask, have they not heard? Indeed they have, for
    “Their voice has gone out to all the earth,
    and their words to the ends of the world.”


    You, nor anyone else, has supported the claim that the 12 offered the kingdom on earth to Israel.
    I realize that there is not a chance that you can understand this, but the "offer of the kingdom" is implied in Acts 2.

    The Jews already knew that God had promised them a kingdom. They did not need any explicit "offer" by the 12.
    Last edited by Right Divider; June 15th, 2019 at 10:33 AM. Reason: typo
    Quote Originally Posted by Squeaky View Post
    That explains why your an idiot.
    Quote Originally Posted by God's Truth View Post
    Father figure, Son figure, and Holy Spirit figure.
    Col 2:9 (AKJV/PCE)
    (2:9) For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

    1Tim 4:10 (AKJV/PCE)
    (4:10) For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.

    Something that was SPOKEN OF since the world began CANNOT be the SAME thing as something KEPT SECRET since the world began.

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    Where does scripture say that Paul was the first to know?

    He calls it my gospel.

    As a Christian is it not your gospel as well?

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    Quote Originally Posted by turbosixx View Post
    Please explain how it has not already happened?

    Rom. 10:17 So faith comes from hearing, and hearing through the word of Christ.
    18 But I ask, have they not heard? Indeed they have, for
    “Their voice has gone out to all the earth,
    and their words to the ends of the world.”



    You, nor anyone else, has supported the claim that the 12 offered the kingdom on earth to Israel.
    Hello
    Here is the kingdom offered:

    Luke 22:29 And I appoint unto you a kingdom, as my Father hath appointed unto me;

    Luke 22:30 That ye may eat and drink at my table in my kingdom, and sit on thrones judging the twelve tribes of Israel.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DougE View Post
    Ephesians 6:19 And for me, that utterance may be given unto me, that I may open my mouth boldly, to make known the mystery of the gospel,

    The mystery of the gospel was revealed first to Paul.

    Romans 16:25 Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began,

    16:26 But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith:

    Paul and the twelve Apostles preached Christ. Paul preached Christ according to the mystery and the scriptures of the prophets. The twelve did not preach Christ according to the mystery.

    Paul claims the gospel as being "my gospel", which distinguishes it from all others. Paul states his gospel was according to the mystery. The mystery was kept secret until revealed to Paul, which means the twelve Apostles could not have known it.

    Paul's gospel is now made manifest.

    Ephesians 3:1 For this cause I Paul, the prisoner of Jesus Christ for you Gentiles,

    Paul was an Apostle to the Gentiles.

    3:2 If ye have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which is given me to you-ward:

    God clearly states that there are dispensations. We are in the dispensation of the grace of God. Gentiles can now be saved freely, along with Jews, without the law and covenants. Gentiles no longer are seperated from Israel. Gentiles no longer have to come to God through Israel.

    3:3 How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words,

    Jesus revealed the mystery to Paul.

    3:4 Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ)

    3:5 Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit;

    3:6 That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel:

    The church, the body of Christ was revealed first to Paul.

    Colossians 1:25 Whereof I am made a minister, according to the dispensation of God which is given to me for you, to fulfil the word of God;

    1:26 Even the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints:

    The mystery was hid even from the twelve disciples, but was made manifest to us by Paul.

    Luke 18:31 Then he took unto him the twelve, and said unto them, Behold, we go up to Jerusalem, and all things that are written by the prophets concerning the Son of man shall be accomplished.

    18:32 For he shall be delivered unto the Gentiles, and shall be mocked, and spitefully entreated, and spitted on:

    18:33 And they shall scourge him, and put him to death: and the third day he shall rise again.

    18:34 And they understood none of these things: and this saying was hid from them, neither knew they the things which were spoken.

    Paul's gospel includes the death, burial, and the resurrection of Christ (1 Corinthians 15:1-4). The twelve Apostles had no understanding of any of this according to Luke 18:34, even when Jesus told them of his death and resurrection in Luke 18:33 and in fact, it was hid from them. The twelve Apostles could not have been preaching the same gospel as Paul.

    Matthew 4:23 And Jesus went about all Galilee, teaching in their synagogues, and preaching the gospel of the kingdom, and healing all manner of sickness and all manner of disease among the people.

    Mark 1:14 Now after that John was put in prison, Jesus came into Galilee, preaching the gospel of the kingdom of God,

    1:15 And saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel.


    Jesus was preaching the gospel of the promised Davidic kingdom (Luke 1:32).

    Luke 9:1 Then he called his twelve disciples together, and gave them power and authority over all devils, and to cure diseases.

    9:2 And he sent them to preach the kingdom of God, and to heal the sick.

    9:6 And they departed, and went through the towns, preaching the gospel, and healing every where.

    The twelve Apostles were not preaching the same gospel as Paul, but rather the gospel of the kingdom, which Paul never preached.

    It is imperative to believe the gospel that was given to us and be justified unto eternal life.

    The gospel has been progressively revealed throughout scripture. Those that believed the gospel revealed in their dispensations, believed God, and were justified unto eternal life (Romans 4:3). If you only believe that the kingdom is at hand (Mark 1:15), as preached by the twelve, you are lost. If you only believe in the name of Jesus, as preached by the twelve, that he is the Christ, the Son of God (John 20:31), you are lost. If you only believe you should repent and be baptized (Acts 2:38), as preached by the twelve, you are lost. If you only believe the gospels of the twelve Apostles you are lost.

    The gospel given us in this dispensation is only found in the epistles of Paul; examples being Romans 3:19-26 and 1 Corinthians 15:1-4.
    Why would you care for any gospel
    other than the one that came by Jesus Christ?

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    Quote Originally Posted by ioy1273 View Post
    Why would you care for any gospel
    other than the one that came by Jesus Christ?
    Hello
    I am sorry but I don't understand this question, please clarify

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    Quote Originally Posted by DougE View Post
    Hello
    Here is the kingdom offered:

    Luke 22:29 And I appoint unto you a kingdom, as my Father hath appointed unto me;

    Luke 22:30 That ye may eat and drink at my table in my kingdom, and sit on thrones judging the twelve tribes of Israel.
    For arguments sake, let's say this is Jesus offering the earthly kingdom. This is Jesus offering it to the 12.

    You said:
    Quote Originally Posted by DougE View Post
    Paul was not opposed to the twelve...they were preaching the kingdom on earth to Israel.

    Israel was still being offered the kingdom which required faith in Jesus as Messiah, Son of God and King and confession and baptism for remission of sins to be priests in the kingdom.
    Where is the 12 offering it to the people (Israel)?



    What does Paul mean by this?
    Acts 20:25 And now, behold, I know that none of you among whom I have gone about proclaiming the kingdom will see my face again.
    Wretched man that I am.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DougE View Post
    Hello
    I am sorry but I don't understand this question, please clarify
    What part of it needs clarification?

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    Quote Originally Posted by turbosixx View Post
    For arguments sake, let's say this is Jesus offering the earthly kingdom. This is Jesus offering it to the 12.

    You said:


    Where is the 12 offering it to the people (Israel)?



    What does Paul mean by this?
    Acts 20:25 And now, behold, I know that none of you among whom I have gone about proclaiming the kingdom will see my face again.
    Hello
    Jesus preached the gospel of the kingdom in Matthew 9:35
    Jesus would just call the gospel of the kingdom the gospel as in Luke 7:22
    Jesus sent the twelve to preach the gospel Luke 9:6, the gospel of the kingdom.
    Jesus said the gospel of the kingdom would be preached to the world Matthew 24:14

    Paul preached the kingdom of God which contains the heavenly kingdom 2 Timothy 4:18

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