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Thread: How does a person prove that Jesus' death was not a human sacrifice?

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    How does a person prove that Jesus' death was not a human sacrifice?

    I do not believe that Jesus' death was a human sacrifice. How do I prove this?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jacob View Post
    I do not believe that Jesus' death was a human sacrifice. How do I prove this?
    I think you first need to understand that Jesus death was an execution and that He knew that He would lay His life down and raise it again in three days.
    He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain what he cannot lose.

    Jim Elliot

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bright Raven View Post
    I think you first need to understand that Jesus death was an execution and that He knew that He would lay His life down and raise it again in three days.
    That is good. I understand that.

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    Over 6000 post club Aimiel's Avatar
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    Hebrews 9:24-26, “For Christ is not entered into the holy places made with hands, which are the figures of the true; but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us: Nor yet that he should offer himself often, as the high priest entereth into the holy place every year with blood of others; For then must he often have suffered since the foundation of the world: but now ONCE in the end of the world hath he appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself.”
    "That man of sin must first be revealed." -- Jesus

    If you haven't tried: you've already failed. -- Aimiel

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jacob View Post
    I do not believe that Jesus' death was a human sacrifice. How do I prove this?

    Jesus was not merely human (although He was fully human when He was here on earth). He was God as human.
    Mere humans do not perform miracles - especially raising up the dead.

    Therefore, God did not sacrifice Jesus......but rather, God sacrificed Himself!
    No one forced God to do it, too.....but willingly, He came as man to lay His life for us.


    Boy, that just hit me! Another evidence to prove Jesus and God are One and the Same!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aimiel View Post
    Hebrews 9:24-26, “For Christ is not entered into the holy places made with hands, which are the figures of the true; but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us: Nor yet that he should offer himself often, as the high priest entereth into the holy place every year with blood of others; For then must he often have suffered since the foundation of the world: but now ONCE in the end of the world hath he appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself.”
    Thank you. Would you say still not a human sacrifice?

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    Quote Originally Posted by betsy123 View Post
    Jesus was not merely human (although He was fully human when He was here on earth). He was God as human.
    Mere humans do not perform miracles - especially raising up the dead.

    Therefore, God did not sacrifice Jesus......but rather, God sacrificed Himself!
    No one forced God to do it, too.....but willingly, He came as man to lay His life for us.


    Boy, that just hit me! Another evidence to prove Jesus and God are One and the Same!
    I am not trying to say God was sacrificed. I am saying that human sacrifice is not of God. Jesus gave His life for us freely, and was murdered.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jacob View Post
    Thank you. Would you say still not a human sacrifice?
    How could I still say it, since I've never said it? It was a human sacrifice. It was God being put to death, also. It was the greatest sacrifice ever made. Not only did Jesus sacrifice His life by subjecting Himself to the will of the Jewish High Priest who then called for His death, which made His death a legal Jewish sacrifice but God had to allow His Son to suffer and die for our sins even though He had never committed any of His own. That is sacrifice.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jacob View Post
    I am not trying to say God was sacrificed. I am saying that human sacrifice is not of God. Jesus gave His life for us freely, and was murdered.
    Jesus didn't hang Himself on the tree. Jesus didn't drive the nails into His Hands. Most of all: He didn't condemn Himself to death, Caiaphas, the High Priest did. Caiaphas also said that it would be good that one man should die for the sins of all Israel. That's prophecy. Your aversion to calling Jesus' Sacrifice what It was is not just dodging the truth: it's twisting it into a fairy tale. God didn't design the Temple and sacrifices and even commit the very first sacrifice Himself when He took the skins of animals to make clothing for Adam and Eve just to play around and watch blood flow into the ground. He did it as a symbol of The Lamb of God who was slain (sacrificed) from the foundation of the earth. You're annoying God when you avoid looking directly at what He designed as the purpose of creation and denying it's what He said it is: sacrifice. It annoys me, too.
    "That man of sin must first be revealed." -- Jesus

    If you haven't tried: you've already failed. -- Aimiel

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aimiel View Post
    How could I still say it, since I've never said it? It was a human sacrifice. It was God being put to death, also. It was the greatest sacrifice ever made. Not only did Jesus sacrifice His life by subjecting Himself to the will of the Jewish High Priest who then called for His death, which made His death a legal Jewish sacrifice but God had to allow His Son to suffer and die for our sins even though He had never committed any of His own. That is sacrifice.Jesus didn't hang Himself on the tree. Jesus didn't drive the nails into His Hands. Most of all: He didn't condemn Himself to death, Caiaphas, the High Priest did. Caiaphas also said that it would be good that one man should die for the sins of all Israel. That's prophecy. Your aversion to calling Jesus' Sacrifice what It was is not just dodging the truth: it's twisting it into a fairy tale. God didn't design the Temple and sacrifices and even commit the very first sacrifice Himself when He took the skins of animals to make clothing for Adam and Eve just to play around and watch blood flow into the ground. He did it as a symbol of The Lamb of God who was slain (sacrificed) from the foundation of the earth. You're annoying God when you avoid looking directly at what He designed as the purpose of creation and denying it's what He said it is: sacrifice. It annoys me, too.
    Human sacrifice is pagan and God prohibits it.

    I accept all of the Bible.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jacob View Post
    I do not believe that Jesus' death was a human sacrifice. How do I prove this?
    How do you define sacrifice? Something offered to God to appease Him? If so, then that's not what Jesus' death was. However, He certainly was a sacrifice :

    Purge out therefore the old leaven, that ye may be a new lump, as ye are unleavened. For even Christ our passover is sacrificed for us:
    I Corinthians 5:7

    For then must he often have suffered since the foundation of the world: but now once in the end of the world hath he appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself.
    Hebrews 9:26

    But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God;
    Hebrews 10:12

    Ritual sacrifice is an attempt to appease God. This sacrifice was the way to put an end to sin. Ritual sacrifice can be repeated with the same effect (nothing, basically). This sacrifice accomplished much and is why the blood of the covenant is such a holy thing. And if it is despised, there remains no sacrifice for sins.

    But also remember, capital punishment "looks" the same as a sacrifice - a specific human being taken and deliberately killed. But that is not human sacrifice. What about when a soldier throws himself on a grenade to save his fellow soldiers? That's clearly sacrifice (and human sacrifice) but one that I dare say would be commended by God :

    Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends.
    John 15:13

    So would you call that kind of sacrifice "human sacrifice"?

    The only thing that seems like intentional human sacrifice (for some sort of appeasement) is in the mind of the Jewish High Priest (Caiaphas) :

    Then gathered the chief priests and the Pharisees a council, and said, What do we? for this man doeth many miracles.
    If we let him thus alone, all men will believe on him: and the Romans shall come and take away both our place and nation.
    And one of them, named Caiaphas, being the high priest that same year, said unto them, Ye know nothing at all,
    Nor consider that it is expedient for us, that one man should die for the people, and that the whole nation perish not.

    John 11:47-50

    He was sacrificing one individual as an expedient to save his own people. Now, that was (in one sense) what Jesus had already come to do. But Jesus' and Caiaphas' agendas were very different. And - as others have already pointed out, Jesus did this willingly and gave His life (even though it was taken murderously and with evil intent).
    If God promises life, He slayeth first; when He builds, He casteth all down first. God is no patcher; He cannot build on another's foundation. - William Tyndale

    The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?
    Jeremiah 17:9

    Who is among you that feareth the Lord, that obeyeth the voice of his servant, that walketh in darkness, and hath no light? let him trust in the name of the Lord, and stay upon his God.
    Behold, all ye that kindle a fire, that compass yourselves about with sparks: walk in the light of your fire, and in the sparks that ye have kindled. This shall ye have of mine hand; ye shall lie down in sorrow.

    Isaiah 50:10-11

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    Quote Originally Posted by nikolai_42 View Post
    How do you define sacrifice? Something offered to God to appease Him? If so, then that's not what Jesus' death was. However, He certainly was a sacrifice :

    Purge out therefore the old leaven, that ye may be a new lump, as ye are unleavened. For even Christ our passover is sacrificed for us:
    I Corinthians 5:7

    For then must he often have suffered since the foundation of the world: but now once in the end of the world hath he appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself.
    Hebrews 9:26

    But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God;
    Hebrews 10:12

    Ritual sacrifice is an attempt to appease God. This sacrifice was the way to put an end to sin. Ritual sacrifice can be repeated with the same effect (nothing, basically). This sacrifice accomplished much and is why the blood of the covenant is such a holy thing. And if it is despised, there remains no sacrifice for sins.

    But also remember, capital punishment "looks" the same as a sacrifice - a specific human being taken and deliberately killed. But that is not human sacrifice. What about when a soldier throws himself on a grenade to save his fellow soldiers? That's clearly sacrifice (and human sacrifice) but one that I dare say would be commended by God :

    Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends.
    John 15:13

    So would you call that kind of sacrifice "human sacrifice"?

    The only thing that seems like intentional human sacrifice (for some sort of appeasement) is in the mind of the Jewish High Priest (Caiaphas) :

    Then gathered the chief priests and the Pharisees a council, and said, What do we? for this man doeth many miracles.
    If we let him thus alone, all men will believe on him: and the Romans shall come and take away both our place and nation.
    And one of them, named Caiaphas, being the high priest that same year, said unto them, Ye know nothing at all,
    Nor consider that it is expedient for us, that one man should die for the people, and that the whole nation perish not.

    John 11:47-50

    He was sacrificing one individual as an expedient to save his own people. Now, that was (in one sense) what Jesus had already come to do. But Jesus' and Caiaphas' agendas were very different. And - as others have already pointed out, Jesus did this willingly and gave His life (even though it was taken murderously and with evil intent).
    I agree with so much of what you posted. Was Jesus a/the Pascal Lamb Sacrifice before or after His death? Do you understand my question? It is not as if He was sacrificed unto death on a cross.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jacob View Post
    I agree with so much of what you posted. Was Jesus a/the Pascal Lamb Sacrifice before or after His death? Do you understand my question?
    I'm not sure if I understand it or not. But my answer would be that He was the Paschal Lamb before His death and He was the sacrificed Paschal Lamb at His death. The Israelites had to keep the Passover Lamb with them for three to four days and it was then sacrificed on the fourteenth day. I suspect (though I couldn't say for certain) this was to foreshadow Christ's ministry of somewhere around 3 years and His subsequent sacrifice. And since He was the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world, I would have to say again that He was Paschal Lamb both before and at His death. Being sacrificed once for all, He continues to be that Lamb and ever lives to make intercession for those that come to Him (Hebrews 7:25).

    Quote Originally Posted by Jacob View Post
    It is not as if He was sacrificed unto death on a cross.
    I guess I'm not sure what you mean by that, because He did die on a cross - and scripture makes clear He was a sacrifice. But in the sense that death couldn't hold Him (Acts 2:24) and that His sacrifice was voluntary and not ritual - in that sense, I could see what you are saying.
    If God promises life, He slayeth first; when He builds, He casteth all down first. God is no patcher; He cannot build on another's foundation. - William Tyndale

    The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?
    Jeremiah 17:9

    Who is among you that feareth the Lord, that obeyeth the voice of his servant, that walketh in darkness, and hath no light? let him trust in the name of the Lord, and stay upon his God.
    Behold, all ye that kindle a fire, that compass yourselves about with sparks: walk in the light of your fire, and in the sparks that ye have kindled. This shall ye have of mine hand; ye shall lie down in sorrow.

    Isaiah 50:10-11

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    Quote Originally Posted by nikolai_42 View Post
    I'm not sure if I understand it or not. But my answer would be that He was the Paschal Lamb before His death and He was the sacrificed Paschal Lamb at His death. The Israelites had to keep the Passover Lamb with them for three to four days and it was then sacrificed on the fourteenth day. I suspect (though I couldn't say for certain) this was to foreshadow Christ's ministry of somewhere around 3 years and His subsequent sacrifice. And since He was the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world, I would have to say again that He was Paschal Lamb both before and at His death. Being sacrificed once for all, He continues to be that Lamb and ever lives to make intercession for those that come to Him (Hebrews 7:25).



    I guess I'm not sure what you mean by that, because He did die on a cross - and scripture makes clear He was a sacrifice. But in the sense that death couldn't hold Him (Acts 2:24) and that His sacrifice was voluntary and not ritual - in that sense, I could see what you are saying.
    I have thought before that Christ's death was a ritual sacrifice. But I do not know what that means. Not a pagan sacrifice, but then maybe not a sacrifice in the literal sense. I have trouble using the word sacrifice, but I know that somehow I am supposed to be able to do so. I need help knowing how to say what scripture says. Not a human sacrifice. The lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world, and the Pascal or Pesach Lamb or Sacrifice. Not that He was a lamb, and not a human sacrifice.

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    Did He volunteer to be the Pesach Lamb or was He murdered at Passover?

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