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Thread: Outstanding Questions, Questions left after personal review.

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    Outstanding Questions, Questions left after personal review.

    I have asked many questions of myself recently, in regard to my doctrine or Theology. I don't feel that I am teaching anything wrong at present, but I realize I may get into matters in the future where I will need to reconcile what I am saying with my mind and communication with and to others. Through communication with others I grow in Christ and learn what I need to know.

    Apparently, after discussing this on the radio with someone, I have learned that we don't convict people in court by the Law of Moses. I asked about observing and enforcing the Law as a Christian, if it should be done (actually I said this is what I have been thinking about). Is this not unless you are able to do so or because even Israel today doesn't do so? But I have nothing to convict anyone of, especially without the Law, which has had an end (Romans 10:4 NASB) if even in my life. Jesus Christ is my Lord, Savior, Master. So as a Christian I apparently am not to report Law of Moses crimes. Discuss. Believer or unbeliever. Courts, the law of the land, and the governing authorities.

    The New Covenant. I think of forgiveness for some reason. God's law because it is mentioned where the new covenant is spoken of in Jeremiah. And the house of Israel and the house of Judah. So if I am not of Israel then it is either not for me or the problem is that I am of Israel by Law of Moses, of which I should be cut off from Israel or life. Being that there is a difference between the Law of Moses and the New Covenant.

    Please help or discuss if you can. I prefer to not have posters shutting me down. I really want to work through these things as I am able to do so.

    Shalom.

    Jacob

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    I like this thread topic because I feel itís of immense necessity to question oneís beliefs completely. I donít like that you make so many threads at one time because I find that annoying and irritating.

    I will be very pleased to offer my opinion and experiences in this thread. I can speak about it. I know what itís like to examine oneís beliefs with complete abandon. I would like to offer that my frame of reference is fundamentalist Christian like many people here. I believed that if you didnít believe in Jesus you were going to hell. And I did believe that hell was the lake of fire. But I also believed in outer darkness because Jesus taught it.
    Sometimes the hardest thing and the right thing are the same.

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    Oops. Sorry Jacob, I meant to begin by saying that I commend you for starting this topic.
    Sometimes the hardest thing and the right thing are the same.

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    The Law of Moses is completely bogus, IMHO, so I wouldnít even worry about that one. Thatís mankind pure and simple. But Jesus and the New Testament you do need to decide on, as I see it.

    For me, the biggest problem was how the things Jesus said donít actually work for a believer in the Bible. I mean, I tried praying for people following the things Jesus said and it didnít work.

    I get that dispensatinalists attempt to explain that one away....probably because they already know it doesnít work but they still want to believe the Bible so they can be saved from Hell Fire.

    I mean, Iím just expressing my opinion and experiences not intentionally insulting anyone for their beliefs.

    Anyway, it was that in the beginning, but the big finale for me was when I realized the Bible was wrong about the brutal end of the world it prophesied. So, thatís how I came to the place when I realized I had to question everything I had believed in for so long. FWIW.
    Sometimes the hardest thing and the right thing are the same.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Guyver View Post
    I like this thread topic because I feel it’s of immense necessity to question one’s beliefs completely. I don’t like that you make so many threads at one time because I find that annoying and irritating.

    I will be very pleased to offer my opinion and experiences in this thread. I can speak about it. I know what it’s like to examine one’s beliefs with complete abandon. I would like to offer that my frame of reference is fundamentalist Christian like many people here. I believed that if you didn’t believe in Jesus you were going to hell. And I did believe that hell was the lake of fire. But I also believed in outer darkness because Jesus taught it.
    Quote Originally Posted by Guyver View Post
    Oops. Sorry Jacob, I meant to begin by saying that I commend you for starting this topic.
    Thanks Guyver. It is good to hear from you.

    I believe that you believe in God. Do you believe that Jesus is the Messiah?

    As for the New Covenant, some people say that it has come and some people say that it is yet to come. Did you know that it is for the house of Israel and the house of Judah? Some people believe that it is also for the Gentiles or for Jews and Greeks/Gentiles both.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Guyver View Post
    The Law of Moses is completely bogus, IMHO, so I wouldn’t even worry about that one. That’s mankind pure and simple. But Jesus and the New Testament you do need to decide on, as I see it.

    For me, the biggest problem was how the things Jesus said don’t actually work for a believer in the Bible. I mean, I tried praying for people following the things Jesus said and it didn’t work.

    I get that dispensatinalists attempt to explain that one away....probably because they already know it doesn’t work but they still want to believe the Bible so they can be saved from Hell Fire.

    I mean, I’m just expressing my opinion and experiences not intentionally insulting anyone for their beliefs.

    Anyway, it was that in the beginning, but the big finale for me was when I realized the Bible was wrong about the brutal end of the world it prophesied. So, that’s how I came to the place when I realized I had to question everything I had believed in for so long. FWIW.
    Well thank you for sharing your opinion. Of course, I believe the Bible. I find it sad that people don't believe in hell because of their experiences, or because Jesus or God doesn't answer prayer the way that they expect. Maybe you have to be a believer first. Maybe you can only ask for what God wants you to ask for. Maybe if you are walking according to God's will you would never do differently anyway. In any case, I don't know that anyone who asks according to God's will, well, even if they die the prayer may still be answered. How does God answer though? Yes or no or giving you what you asked for? Of course this is not like Santa Claus. Or a Genie. As for hell my friend Steve Gregg has a book three views on hell and he doesn't tell you which one to believe in.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jacob View Post
    Well thank you for sharing your opinion. Of course, I believe the Bible. I find it sad that people don't believe in hell because of their experiences, or because Jesus or God doesn't answer prayer the way that they expect..
    I donít believe in hell because the idea is so crazy. To believe in hell is to believe God evil.

    Now, I will be going to my grave, and I will admit that evil exists in the world in some sense, but Iím not going to believe God evil. I believe God is good, and there must be a good explanation for why things are as they are.
    Sometimes the hardest thing and the right thing are the same.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Guyver View Post
    I don’t believe in hell because the idea is so crazy. To believe in hell is to believe God evil.

    Now, I will be going to my grave, and I will admit that evil exists in the world in some sense, but I’m not going to believe God evil. I believe God is good, and there must be a good explanation for why things are as they are.
    You're so incredibly confused, aren't you?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jacob View Post
    I have asked many questions of myself recently, in regard to my doctrine or Theology. I don't feel that I am teaching anything wrong at present, but I realize I may get into matters in the future where I will need to reconcile what I am saying with my mind and communication with and to others. Through communication with others I grow in Christ and learn what I need to know.


    Shalom.

    Jacob
    Jacob, how could anything you believe be wrong? The nature of beliefs is that they are not true or false. What you really mean to say is that you wish the approval of those religious people around here because you think they actually believe in God. And the only good reason for this is religious and cultural indoctrination.

    And if it works for you that’s great. But, if you find it’s not working for you, as I found out for me, then you have to find something else. I believe in God because that is my baseline.

    That’s what I’m able to believe and feel sure of in my beliefs.
    Sometimes the hardest thing and the right thing are the same.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Guyver View Post
    I donít believe in hell because the idea is so crazy. To believe in hell is to believe God evil.

    Now, I will be going to my grave, and I will admit that evil exists in the world in some sense, but Iím not going to believe God evil. I believe God is good, and there must be a good explanation for why things are as they are.
    God is not evil is true. An argument of those who believe in hell is that it is entirely in keeping with God's righteous character.
    Quote Originally Posted by Guyver View Post
    Jacob, how could anything you believe be wrong? The nature of beliefs is that they are not true or false. What you really mean to say is that you wish the approval of those religious people around here because you think they actually believe in God. And the only good reason for this is religious and cultural indoctrination.

    And if it works for you that’s great. But, if you find it’s not working for you, as I found out for me, then you have to find something else. I believe in God because that is my baseline.

    That’s what I’m able to believe and feel sure of in my beliefs.
    Are beliefs true or false?

    For example, I believe that God exists.

    I suppose that part of me wants others to believe as I do. Honesty promotes good conversation.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jacob View Post
    God is not evil is true. An argument of those who believe in hell is that it is entirely in keeping with God's righteous character.
    Putting people in hell is unrighteous. I have to go now, Iíll have to answer the other part later.
    Sometimes the hardest thing and the right thing are the same.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Guyver View Post
    Putting people in hell is unrighteous. I have to go now, Iíll have to answer the other part later.
    Depending on if there is a hell you may be correct. Hell on earth depends on there being a hell, but it may not be a just view. People perceive hell differently.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jacob View Post

    Are beliefs true or false?

    For example, I believe that God exists.

    I suppose that part of me wants others to believe as I do. Honesty promotes good conversation.
    Iím back, that didnít take long. Anyway, beliefs can be true or false....but to the person who believes they are unknown. For example, people used to believe that people lived on Mars, and others believed people lived on the moon because of a religious text. Few people believe those things now because they have been proven false.

    So, some beliefs may end up being true, and other things people believe are false, but until such time as they have been proven true or false, they are unknowns. So, letís take your belief that God exists. It may be true or not true. No one can prove that God exists.

    You believe God exists, and I do also, but we canít prove that one way or the other. The only thing we can do is offer people reasons for why we believe the way we do. If you tell your beliefs to an atheist, they will say ďprove it.Ē Since you wonít be able to prove what you believe to be true, they have every right to not accept your beliefs as their own.

    If people could prove God exists, or that the Bible is Gods word, then there wouldnít be many atheists because they accept facts as real. They donít have a problem with facts, but they do have a problem with beliefs. I donít blame them for it personally.
    Sometimes the hardest thing and the right thing are the same.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jacob View Post
    Depending on if there is a hell you may be correct. Hell on earth depends on there being a hell, but it may not be a just view. People perceive hell differently.
    Any punishment should fit the crime. A righteous person knows this. You don’t kill a person for running a red light. You fine them for it. Putting someone in an eternal hell with no chance of escape does not fit the crime of not being a Christian while living on this planet that God made.

    In fact, I don’t think it’s any crime at all. Irrespective of that, there is no “righteous” or “just” side of God that would allow such punishment, in fact the opposite would be true if in fact God is love.

    People believe in hell because it’s in the Bible, the church teaches it, and preachers preach it. That doesn’t make it right or real. But people believe it because they want to.
    Sometimes the hardest thing and the right thing are the same.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jacob View Post
    Thanks Guyver. It is good to hear from you.
    Please forgive my poor manners. It is good to speak with you again Jacob.
    Sometimes the hardest thing and the right thing are the same.

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