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Thread: THE SIN THAT LEADS TO DEATH ?

  1. #76
    TOL Legend God's Truth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jacob View Post
    Your paragraphs sound different. Like you are taking different interpretations. Is that true?
    No.
    We have to obey our Government. The scriptures tell us that.
    Oh how I love the Word of God!

    Do not just read the word do it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nang View Post
    Not quite my point . . .

    When God forgives and justifies a sinner, they are granted repentance from God. Repentance is evidence of forgiveness. And the Christian prays for all blessings upon such souls.

    However, when a Christian observes an unrepentant person, in continual enmity against God the Holy Spirit through deliberate rejection of the gospel message, they are to realize such unbelief will be the sure death of that person.

    I believe I John 5:16-19 coincides with Matthew 12:31-32; 16:19.
    It is true that the Gentiles were granted repentance, but when a person repents then they are forgiven.

    Acts 11:18 NASB 18 When they heard this, they quieted down and glorified God, saying, "Well then, God has granted to the Gentiles also the repentance [that leads] to life."

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    Quote Originally Posted by God's Truth View Post
    No.
    We have to obey our Government. The scriptures tell us that.
    So long as they don't tell you to break God's Law.

    If you are the government should you treat people in a Christ like manner?

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    Quote Originally Posted by betsy123 View Post
    I think - imho - we can pray that they turn away from the sin and ask for forgiveness, and be strengthened (believers); Thinking of Jesus praying for Peter.

    Luke 22
    31 “Simon, Simon, Satan has asked to sift all of you as wheat.
    32 But I have prayed for you, Simon, that your faith may not fail. And when you have turned back, strengthen your brothers.”




    We pray for non-believers that they seek God and find salvation.
    It sounds like you believe that we can pray for believers and non-believers both.

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    LIFETIME MEMBER Bright Raven's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jacob View Post
    It sounds like you believe that we can pray for believers and non-believers both.
    Of course.
    He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain what he cannot lose.

    Jim Elliot

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bright Raven View Post
    Of course.
    Do you pray the same things for everyone or do you know who the believers and unbelievers are? Because many people believe that we just pray for our fellow believers. For what part do we have with the world?

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    LIFETIME MEMBER Bright Raven's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jacob View Post
    Do you pray the same things for everyone or do you know who the believers and unbelievers are? Because many people believe that we just pray for our fellow believers. For what part do we have with the world?
    It is God's desire that all men be saved. We should pray for that.
    He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain what he cannot lose.

    Jim Elliot

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    TOL Subscriber Nang's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bright Raven View Post
    It is God's desire that all men be saved. We should pray for that.
    If such was truly God's will, then all men would be saved and there would by no Judgment Day, nor Second Death. (Rev. 20:20:14-15)

    Wrongful praying for universal salvation, is exactly what we are NOT to pray for.

    God's justice (Christ's vicariuous death), nor His saving grace (regeneration via the Holy Spirit), was ever provided or promised for all.

    That is the false teaching of Unitarianism, Arminianism, etc.

    Jesus Christ did not die for all mankind, but only for an Elect chosen by God to receive the Covenant promises. This was the will of God established before the foundation of the world. Ephesians 2:4-11; I Peter 1:2; Romans 8:29-30
    Last edited by Nang; May 26th, 2019 at 08:50 PM.
    "The immutable God never learned anything and never changed his mind. He knew everything from eternity."

    " The difference between faith and saving faith are the propositions believed."
    Gordon H. Clark

    "If a man be lost, God must not have the blame for it; but if a man be saved, God must have the glory of it."
    Charles Spurgeon

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    TOL Subscriber Nang's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jacob View Post
    It is true that the Gentiles were granted repentance, but when a person repents then they are forgiven.

    Acts 11:18 NASB 18 When they heard this, they quieted down and glorified God, saying, "Well then, God has granted to the Gentiles also the repentance [that leads] to life."
    When sinners are gifted with faith to believe, God grants them repentance. Acts 5:31; 11:18; II Timothy 2:25

    Man does not produce either faith or repentance. Both are solely the gifts of God.

    Both faith and repentance are evidence of God's forgiving grace . . . not the means to gain such.

    It is not inherent in sinful men to believe in God or turn away from sin. That is the tragedy of the fall.

    Salvation comes only from the grace of God; centered in the vicarious sacrifice and death of Jesus Christ alone.
    "The immutable God never learned anything and never changed his mind. He knew everything from eternity."

    " The difference between faith and saving faith are the propositions believed."
    Gordon H. Clark

    "If a man be lost, God must not have the blame for it; but if a man be saved, God must have the glory of it."
    Charles Spurgeon

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bright Raven View Post
    It is God's desire that all men be saved. We should pray for that.
    I don't see the instruction to pray for that. Is it like praying for God's kingdom to come? Should we do that? Do you understand what I am asking? How it relates to to the question at hand of if we should pray for unbelievers or not? For that matter should we pray for believers? In other words should we just pray for ourselves?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nang View Post
    When sinners are gifted with faith to believe, God grants them repentance. Acts 5:31; 11:18; II Timothy 2:25

    Man does not produce either faith or repentance. Both are solely the gifts of God.

    Both faith and repentance are evidence of God's forgiving grace . . . not the means to gain such.

    It is not inherent in sinful men to believe in God or turn away from sin. That is the tragedy of the fall.

    Salvation comes only from the grace of God; centered in the vicarious sacrifice and death of Jesus Christ alone.
    I am simply saying that if you want forgiveness you must repent, not that God does not grant repentance.

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    TOL Subscriber Nang's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jacob View Post
    I am simply saying that if you want forgiveness you must repent, not that God does not grant repentance.
    And I am claiming that no fallen sinner WANTS to repent or be forgiven. It is not in any of us.

    God must FIRST regenerate and change our hearts and wills through the gifts of faith and repentance to realize our justification in His sight.

    God is the cause. Our faith and repentance is the effect.

    Never vice-versa.

    Sinners are never the cause of being forgiven. All mercy, grace, and legal pardon resides with the Judge Eternal.
    "The immutable God never learned anything and never changed his mind. He knew everything from eternity."

    " The difference between faith and saving faith are the propositions believed."
    Gordon H. Clark

    "If a man be lost, God must not have the blame for it; but if a man be saved, God must have the glory of it."
    Charles Spurgeon

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    LIFETIME MEMBER Bright Raven's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nang View Post
    If such was truly God's will, then all men would be saved and there would by no Judgment Day, nor Second Death. (Rev. 20:20:14-15)

    Wrongful praying for universal salvation, is exactly what we are NOT to pray for.

    God's justice (Christ's vicariuous death), nor His saving grace (regeneration via the Holy Spirit), was ever provided or promised for all.

    That is the false teaching of Unitarianism, Arminianism, etc.

    Jesus Christ did not die for all mankind, but only for an Elect chosen by God to receive the Covenant promises. This was the will of God established before the foundation of the world. Ephesians 2:4-11; I Peter 1:2; Romans 8:29-30
    If it is not true that God desires all men to be saved please reconcile the following verses.

    1 Timothy 2:3-4 King James Version (KJV)
    3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour;

    4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.

    2 Peter 3:8-9 King James Version (KJV)
    8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

    9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
    He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain what he cannot lose.

    Jim Elliot

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    LIFETIME MEMBER Bright Raven's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jacob View Post
    I don't see the instruction to pray for that. Is it like praying for God's kingdom to come? Should we do that? Do you understand what I am asking? How it relates to to the question at hand of if we should pray for unbelievers or not? For that matter should we pray for believers? In other words should we just pray for ourselves?
    Read 1 Timothy 2:3-4 and 2 Peter 3:8-9
    He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain what he cannot lose.

    Jim Elliot

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    TOL Subscriber Nang's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bright Raven View Post
    If it is not true that God desires all men to be saved please reconcile the following verses.

    1 Timothy 2:3-4 King James Version (KJV)
    3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour;

    4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.

    2 Peter 3:8-9 King James Version (KJV)
    8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

    9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
    I believe all God's promises were designated to a particular, elect people. The "any" and "all" in these verses pertain to "any" and "all" of those chosen for salvation in Christ Jesus before the foundation of the world.

    To apply these promises universally, presents the problem of why empirical evidence clearly shows not all men believe the gospel of Jesus Christ. Why then will multitudes suffer the second death and judgement of hell if it is supposedly the will of God they be saved?

    Is it because God is unable and fails to save all universally, or is it because universal salvation was never the correct proposition and promise made?
    "The immutable God never learned anything and never changed his mind. He knew everything from eternity."

    " The difference between faith and saving faith are the propositions believed."
    Gordon H. Clark

    "If a man be lost, God must not have the blame for it; but if a man be saved, God must have the glory of it."
    Charles Spurgeon

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