User Tag List

Page 1 of 8 1234 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 120

Thread: THE SIN THAT LEADS TO DEATH ?

  1. #1
    BANNED
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Lakewood, Washington
    Posts
    18,785
    Thanks
    126
    Thanked 947 Times in 871 Posts

    Mentioned
    39 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)
    Rep Power
    0

    Sin leading to death - what is it?

    What is sin leading to death?

    1 John 5:16-17 NASB
    16 If anyone sees his brother committing a sin not leading to death, he shall ask and God will for him give life to those who commit sin not leading to death. There is a sin leading to death; I do not say that he should make request for this.
    17 All unrighteousness is sin, and there is a sin not leading to death.

    Can we pray for believers or non-believers who commit sin leading to death?

  2. #2
    Journeyman
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Posts
    197
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 47 Times in 42 Posts

    Blog Entries
    9
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Rep Power
    2330
    Quote Originally Posted by Jacob View Post
    Can we pray for believers or non-believers who commit sin leading to death?
    Regarding non-believers, they can have no forgiveness for their sins before they become believers. For:

    John 3:36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

    Regarding:

    1 John 5:16 If any man see his brother sin a sin which is not unto death, he shall ask, and he shall give him life for them that sin not unto death. There is a sin unto death: I do not say that he shall pray for it.
    17 All unrighteousness is sin: and there is a sin not unto death.

    1 John 5:16a means that if a Christian sees a fellow Christian commit a sin, before that fellow Christian dies it is possible for the first Christian to exhort him to repent from that sin (Hebrews 3:13) and to pray with him that God would forgive him for it (1 John 1:9). But 1 John 5:16b means that it is possible for a Christian to wrongly employ his free will to commit a sin without repentance until he dies, at which point there is no use praying for forgiveness for that sin. For there is no forgiveness for a sin which is not repented from while someone is still alive (Hebrews 10:26-29; 1 Corinthians 9:27, Galatians 5:19-21).

  3. #3
    TOL Legend beloved57's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    ATL
    Posts
    19,386
    Thanks
    760
    Thanked 2,920 Times in 2,820 Posts

    Blog Entries
    19
    Mentioned
    4 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Rep Power
    47792
    The sin that leadeth to death is just final unbelief, apostacy from the profession of faith Heb 10:26

    For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,

    Now such person Christ could not have died for !
    "... I have my own private opinion that there is no such a thing as
    preaching Christ and him crucified, unless you preach what now-a-days is
    called Calvinism. I have my own ideas, and those I always state boldly. It is
    a nickname to call it Calvinism; Calvinism is the gospel, and nothing else."

    Charles Spurgeon !

  4. #4
    Maranatha Nanja's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Location
    Motown
    Posts
    4,575
    Thanks
    2,623
    Thanked 910 Times in 877 Posts

    Mentioned
    10 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Rep Power
    26544
    Quote Originally Posted by beloved57 View Post
    The sin that leadeth to death is just final unbelief, apostacy from the profession of faith Heb 10:26

    For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,

    Now such person Christ could not have died for !

    Yes, that's the sin unto death John speaks of.

    1 John 5:16 If any man see his brother sin a sin which is not unto death, he shall ask, and he shall give him life for them that sin not unto death. There is a sin unto death: I do not say that he shall pray for it.

    It's willful unbelief and rejection of the Gospel of Christ as in Eph. 1:3-11 and 2 Tim. 1:9.

    The same ones are the stony ground hearers in Mat. 13:20-21 which have no root. They may believe for awhile but then fall away, giving evidence they never belonged to Christ, but are Vessels of Wrath Rom. 9:22 that Jesus didn't pray for John 17:9 and neither should we.
    My soul thirsts for God, the God Who Lives Forever:
    when shall I be brought in to see His Face? -Psalm 42:2

  5. The Following User Says Thank You to Nanja For Your Post:

    beloved57 (May 4th, 2019)

  6. #5
    BANNED
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Lakewood, Washington
    Posts
    18,785
    Thanks
    126
    Thanked 947 Times in 871 Posts

    Mentioned
    39 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)
    Rep Power
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by bibleverse2 View Post
    Regarding non-believers, they can have no forgiveness for their sins before they become believers. For:

    John 3:36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.
    Okay.
    Regarding:

    1 John 5:16 If any man see his brother sin a sin which is not unto death, he shall ask, and he shall give him life for them that sin not unto death. There is a sin unto death: I do not say that he shall pray for it.
    17 All unrighteousness is sin: and there is a sin not unto death.

    1 John 5:16a means that if a Christian sees a fellow Christian commit a sin, before that fellow Christian dies it is possible for the first Christian to exhort him to repent from that sin (Hebrews 3:13) and to pray with him that God would forgive him for it (1 John 1:9). But 1 John 5:16b means that it is possible for a Christian to wrongly employ his free will to commit a sin without repentance until he dies, at which point there is no use praying for forgiveness for that sin. For there is no forgiveness for a sin which is not repented from while someone is still alive (Hebrews 10:26-29; 1 Corinthians 9:27, Galatians 5:19-21).
    I am not sure about this interpretation that you have.

  7. #6
    BANNED
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Lakewood, Washington
    Posts
    18,785
    Thanks
    126
    Thanked 947 Times in 871 Posts

    Mentioned
    39 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)
    Rep Power
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by beloved57 View Post
    The sin that leadeth to death is just final unbelief, apostacy from the profession of faith Heb 10:26

    For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,

    Now such person Christ could not have died for !
    Is it talking about Christ as a sacrifice or is it talking about animal sacrifice? I believe that human sacrifice is against God's Law. If the person has already repented but then chosen to sin again, are they beyond initial saving? Meaning, are they beyond saving including their initial saving their repentance by which they were apparently saved? Or, does this mean that we need to beware of thinking that someone is saved?

  8. #7
    BANNED
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Lakewood, Washington
    Posts
    18,785
    Thanks
    126
    Thanked 947 Times in 871 Posts

    Mentioned
    39 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)
    Rep Power
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by Nanja View Post
    Yes, that's the sin unto death John speaks of.

    1 John 5:16 If any man see his brother sin a sin which is not unto death, he shall ask, and he shall give him life for them that sin not unto death. There is a sin unto death: I do not say that he shall pray for it.

    It's willful unbelief and rejection of the Gospel of Christ as in Eph. 1:3-11 and 2 Tim. 1:9.

    The same ones are the stony ground hearers in Mat. 13:20-21 which have no root. They may believe for awhile but then fall away, giving evidence they never belonged to Christ, but are Vessels of Wrath Rom. 9:22 that Jesus didn't pray for John 17:9 and neither should we.
    I believe you are saying that we should pray for believers only. I have been contemplating this recently. How do you know that someone who has accepted the truth might not reject it later?

  9. #8
    Journeyman
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Posts
    197
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 47 Times in 42 Posts

    Blog Entries
    9
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Rep Power
    2330
    Quote Originally Posted by Nanja View Post
    They may believe for awhile but then fall away, giving evidence they never belonged to Christ . . .
    Note that Hebrews 6:4-8 shows that even true Christians, who have truly repented and become partakers of God's Holy Spirit, can ultimately lose their salvation because of subsequently wrongly employing their free will to "fall away", to commit apostasy, to stop believing (like in Luke 8:13, 1 Timothy 4:1, and 2 Thessalonians 2:3), just as other Bible verses show the same thing (John 15:6; 2 Timothy 2:12b, Mark 8:35-38, Hebrews 10:38-39, Matthew 24:9-13).

    One way that a true Christian could be brought to the point where he commits apostasy would be if he finds a particular sin to be very pleasurable, so pleasurable and so fulfilling (in the short term) that he continues in it over time until his heart becomes hardened by the deceitfulness of sin (Hebrews 3:13), to where his love for God grows cold because of the abundance of iniquity (Matthew 24:12), to where he quenches the Spirit (1 Thessalonians 5:19), to where he sears his conscience as with a hot iron (1 Timothy 4:2), to where he begins to listen to the lies of demons and latch onto them, to the point where he departs from the Christian faith (1 Timothy 4:1). In a wrong desire to continue in their lusts without repentance, Christians can reach the point where they are no longer able to endure the sound doctrine of the Bible, and instead seek out and latch onto other teachings which will help to support them in their lusts (2 Timothy 4:3-4).

    Another way that a true Christian could be brought to the point where he commits apostasy would be if he has a terror of being tortured and killed during a persecution against Christians, so that during such a persecution he renounces his faith in Jesus Christ and the Gospel to avoid being tortured and killed (Mark 8:35-38; 2 Timothy 2:12). Some Christians will fall away in this sense (2 Thessalonians 2:3) during the future Tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 and Matthew 24 (Matthew 24:9-13, cf. Matthew 13:21, Luke 8:13), when the future Antichrist will take power over the earth, make war against Biblical Christians (not in hiding), and physically overcome them in every nation (Revelation 13:7-10, Revelation 14:12-13, Revelation 20:4-6, Matthew 24:9-13).

    There will be no way to repent from committing apostasy (Hebrews 6:4-8), and worshipping the future Antichrist and his image, and willingly receiving his mark on the forehead or right hand, even if this is done just to keep from getting killed (Revelation 13:15-18). Whoever does these things, even if he had been a Christian before, will end up suffering punishment from God in fire and brimstone forever (Revelation 14:9-12). So Christians must be willing to be killed, even by getting beheaded (Revelation 20:4-6), before they would ever do any of these things (Revelation 14:12-13).

    This ties in with the fact that a Christian can ultimately have his name blotted out of the Book of Life if he does not overcome to the end (Revelation 3:5, Revelation 2:26). An example of Christians ultimately "overcoming" (Greek: nikao: G3528), or "getting the victory" (nikao) (Revelation 15:2), is found later in the book of Revelation, in Revelation 15:2, which refers to those Christians who will be willing to be killed by the future Antichrist instead of worshipping him to save their mortal lives during the future, worldwide persecution against Biblical Christians (Revelation 13:7-10, Revelation 14:12-13, Revelation 20:4-6, Matthew 24:9-13). Christians will be able to spiritually "overcome" the Antichrist and Satan by not loving their lives to the death (Revelation 12:11).

  10. #9
    Old Timer
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Posts
    454
    Thanks
    3
    Thanked 68 Times in 56 Posts

    Mentioned
    3 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Rep Power
    15898
    I believe that those verses are many fold. John mainly refers to how brothers' sins are to be dealt with inside church. We demand repentance and pray for God's forgiveness. Then that's done. However this won't apply to serious crimes, as a result of both the application of Jewish laws and Roman laws. You can't simply settle a murder or raping inside church like this. You can't just ask the criminal to repent for forgiveness then consider that settled.

    Of course, as a teaching the same verses are applicable to situations such as apostasy and blasphemy and etc., spiritually speaking.

  11. #10
    Journeyman
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Posts
    197
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 47 Times in 42 Posts

    Blog Entries
    9
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Rep Power
    2330
    Quote Originally Posted by Hawkins View Post
    Of course, as a teaching the same verses [1 John 5:16-17] are applicable to situations such as apostasy and blasphemy and etc., spiritually speaking.
    Regarding blasphemy, that brought to mind:

    Mark 3:28 Verily I say unto you, All sins shall be forgiven unto the sons of men, and blasphemies wherewith soever they shall blaspheme:
    29 But he that shall blaspheme against the Holy Spirit hath never forgiveness, but is in danger of eternal damnation:
    30 Because they said, He hath an unclean spirit.

    Luke 12:10 And whosoever shall speak a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but unto him that blasphemeth against the Holy Spirit it shall not be forgiven.

    Blaspheming God's Holy Spirit (Mark 3:29) means saying something against the Holy Spirit, which is unforgivable even if it is repented from (Mark 3:29), unlike all other blasphemies (Mark 3:28), such as blaspheming Jesus Christ (saying something against Jesus), which is forgivable, like other sins, if it is repented from (Luke 12:10; cf. Luke 13:3, Hebrews 10:26-29).

    An example of blaspheming God's Holy Spirit (Mark 3:29) would be to say that a miracle performed by the Holy Spirit (Matthew 12:28) was performed by an evil spirit (Mark 3:22,29-30). So it is possible for even a real Christian to blaspheme the Holy Spirit, if, for example, he were to say that another Christian speaking in tongues today (by the Holy Spirit: 1 Corinthians 12:10b-11) is the work of an evil spirit (cf. 1 Corinthians 14:39b; 1 Thessalonians 5:19).

  12. #11
    TOL Subscriber
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Location
    Carmarthenshire
    Posts
    8,715
    Thanks
    176
    Thanked 851 Times in 741 Posts

    Blog Entries
    6
    Mentioned
    25 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Rep Power
    183818
    This would be such as have apostatized from a former specious profession into heresy and debauchery, and continue obstinate therein, against all methods of recovery.

    There are many on TOL that are obstinate heretics and observedly so. Ignore them ...
    I know Him, correctly, as Messiah whom you call Christ. Yah Shua whom you call Jesus. Messianists who you call Christians.

    "Touch not mine anointed, and do my prophets no harm".

    I refuse, point blank, to speak peace to the unregenerate, hypocrites, religious dogma lovers and those that oppose the following statement:
    A regenerate man trusts in the evangelism of salvation conditioned on the atoning blood and imputed justness of Messiah alone.
    If you are fully persuaded, by experience, of this delightful, beautiful and life giving doctrine then I love you as a brother.

    Anyone who thinks that salvation is conditioned on anything a man thinks, does or says is atheist. I cannot and will not speak peace to him or her.

    I don't make statements online that I wouldn't repeat in front of my Maker, my grandmother or a judge.

  13. #12
    BANNED
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Lakewood, Washington
    Posts
    18,785
    Thanks
    126
    Thanked 947 Times in 871 Posts

    Mentioned
    39 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)
    Rep Power
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by Truster View Post
    This would be such as have apostatized from a former specious profession into heresy and debauchery, and continue obstinate therein, against all methods of recovery.

    There are many on TOL that are obstinate heretics and observedly so. Ignore them ...
    An opinion or a view that a person holds might be different from if they are saved.

  14. #13
    TOL Subscriber
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Location
    Carmarthenshire
    Posts
    8,715
    Thanks
    176
    Thanked 851 Times in 741 Posts

    Blog Entries
    6
    Mentioned
    25 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Rep Power
    183818
    Quote Originally Posted by Jacob View Post
    An opinion or a view that a person holds might be different from if they are saved.
    Truth is not an opinion or a view. Truth is an absolute certainty that is known inwardly. I occasionally meet someone who is walking the narrow way, but most are walking the broad way that leads to destruction. I have no wish to communicate with them nor do I pay them the attention they think they deserve.
    I know Him, correctly, as Messiah whom you call Christ. Yah Shua whom you call Jesus. Messianists who you call Christians.

    "Touch not mine anointed, and do my prophets no harm".

    I refuse, point blank, to speak peace to the unregenerate, hypocrites, religious dogma lovers and those that oppose the following statement:
    A regenerate man trusts in the evangelism of salvation conditioned on the atoning blood and imputed justness of Messiah alone.
    If you are fully persuaded, by experience, of this delightful, beautiful and life giving doctrine then I love you as a brother.

    Anyone who thinks that salvation is conditioned on anything a man thinks, does or says is atheist. I cannot and will not speak peace to him or her.

    I don't make statements online that I wouldn't repeat in front of my Maker, my grandmother or a judge.

  15. #14
    BANNED
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Lakewood, Washington
    Posts
    18,785
    Thanks
    126
    Thanked 947 Times in 871 Posts

    Mentioned
    39 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)
    Rep Power
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by Truster View Post
    Truth is not an opinion or a view. Truth is an absolute certainty that is known inwardly. I occasionally meet someone who is walking the narrow way, but most are walking the broad way that leads to destruction. I have no wish to communicate with them nor do I pay them the attention they think they deserve.
    Yes. I am saying that a person can believe the truth and hold an opinion that is different from your own.

  16. #15
    TOL Subscriber
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Location
    Carmarthenshire
    Posts
    8,715
    Thanks
    176
    Thanked 851 Times in 741 Posts

    Blog Entries
    6
    Mentioned
    25 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Rep Power
    183818
    Quote Originally Posted by Jacob View Post
    Yes. I am saying that a person can believe the truth and hold an opinion that is different from your own.
    In which case they oppose the truth.
    I know Him, correctly, as Messiah whom you call Christ. Yah Shua whom you call Jesus. Messianists who you call Christians.

    "Touch not mine anointed, and do my prophets no harm".

    I refuse, point blank, to speak peace to the unregenerate, hypocrites, religious dogma lovers and those that oppose the following statement:
    A regenerate man trusts in the evangelism of salvation conditioned on the atoning blood and imputed justness of Messiah alone.
    If you are fully persuaded, by experience, of this delightful, beautiful and life giving doctrine then I love you as a brother.

    Anyone who thinks that salvation is conditioned on anything a man thinks, does or says is atheist. I cannot and will not speak peace to him or her.

    I don't make statements online that I wouldn't repeat in front of my Maker, my grandmother or a judge.

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
About us
Since 1997 TheologyOnline (TOL) has been one of the most popular theology forums on the internet. On TOL we encourage spirited conversation about religion, politics, and just about everything else.

follow us