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Thread: Is Jesus God?

  1. #31
    Over 2000 post club nikolai_42's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WeberHome View Post
    .


    Human beings are intrinsically inferior to God in every way. However, there is one who has achieved equality with God via a special promotion.

    Phil 2:9-11 . .God exalted him to the highest place and gave him the name that is above every name, that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth, and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

    FAQ: What is "the" name that is above every name?

    A: Jehovah (Isa 42:8)

    In other words; as a reward for his immeasurable service to God and mankind, the human being Jesus Christ was given the right to us the name of God for his own name; and along with that name, all the honor, power, and reverence that goes with it. So that now, refusal to acknowledge Jesus Christ as Jehovah is all the same as refusing to acknowledge God as Jehovah.
    _
    I had a response to this but didn't get it submitted (and that was a few days ago) so this is not what I had hoped it to be, but....

    Jesus makes it plain in John 17 that He was with the Father before the world was. He pre-existed. He was with the Father. Philippians 2:6 says He was in the form of God. Reading that whole passage, it's pretty clear that He took on the form of man after being in the form of God. John 1:1 says the Word was God :

    In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
    John 1:1

    And within a few verses, it is made a personal thing ("he", not "it")

    The same was in the beginning with God.
    All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
    In him was life; and the life was the light of men.

    John 1:2-4

    And just to make it abundantly clear, that pre-existing Word is identified clearly with Christ :

    And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
    John bare witness of him, and cried, saying, This was he of whom I spake, He that cometh after me is preferred before me: for he was before me.

    John 1:14-15

    So it seems clear to me that Jesus was God and came to earth as a man.

    Now...to the name. I was immediately reminded of Isaiah's prophecy :

    For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.
    Of the increase of his government and peace there shall be no end, upon the throne of David, and upon his kingdom, to order it, and to establish it with judgment and with justice from henceforth even for ever. The zeal of the Lord of hosts will perform this.

    Isaiah 9:6-7

    Those underlined titles appear to be consonant (if not entirely equivalent) with calling Him God (Counsellor an allusion - if indirect - to the Holy Spirit). And the portion about His name is directly applicable to your post. Note that it is in the future. In other words, it is pointing to the child being born. It is pointing to the incarnation - recognizing the identity but seeing it from an earthly standpoint. In other words, it wasn't God visibly coming to earth as God so that the prophecy would say "God is coming to earth" but rather that a provision is being sent. These names could not be given to someone who isn't already Deity (Isaiah 42:8).

    So where does that leave us with Him being given a name? Having established His pre-existence (with the Father!), His form as God and His incarnation, that name implies an office. A unique office :

    This is the stone which was set at nought of you builders, which is become the head of the corner.
    Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.

    Acts 4:11-12

    And I saw a strong angel proclaiming with a loud voice, Who is worthy to open the book, and to loose the seals thereof?
    And no man in heaven, nor in earth, neither under the earth, was able to open the book, neither to look thereon.
    And I wept much, because no man was found worthy to open and to read the book, neither to look thereon.
    And one of the elders saith unto me, Weep not: behold, the Lion of the tribe of Judah, the Root of David, hath prevailed to open the book, and to loose the seven seals thereof.
    And I beheld, and, lo, in the midst of the throne and of the four beasts, and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb as it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God sent forth into all the earth.

    Revelation 5:2-6

    That name doesn't mean He became God. It means He was put in a unique position of being Savior of the world. He was not a man (like Saul, for example) who needed to be saved and then was given a new name indicating some change. And as God does not give His glory to another, that name indicated that God published that new name by which salvation was available (and in that name alone). It was a unique office, a unique position, a unique role that could be filled by One and One alone. The name reflects that. And so God is glorified in that new name being uttered and published abroad to the ends of the earth - to the salvation of many. Jesus accomplished that which was given to Him to do by the Father and so He receives public acclaim correspondent to that.
    If God promises life, He slayeth first; when He builds, He casteth all down first. God is no patcher; He cannot build on another's foundation. - William Tyndale

    The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?
    Jeremiah 17:9

    Who is among you that feareth the Lord, that obeyeth the voice of his servant, that walketh in darkness, and hath no light? let him trust in the name of the Lord, and stay upon his God.
    Behold, all ye that kindle a fire, that compass yourselves about with sparks: walk in the light of your fire, and in the sparks that ye have kindled. This shall ye have of mine hand; ye shall lie down in sorrow.

    Isaiah 50:10-11

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  3. #32
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    God the Father came as a Son in the flesh.
    Oh how I love the Word of God!

    Do not just read the word do it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by God's Truth View Post
    God the Father came as a Son in the flesh.
    WRONG, The Father and Son are same essence but different persons.
    He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain what he cannot lose.

    Jim Elliot

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  6. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bright Raven View Post
    WRONG, The Father and Son are same essence but different persons.
    What is the essence?
    Oh how I love the Word of God!

    Do not just read the word do it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by God's Truth View Post
    What is the essence?
    the basic, real, and invariable nature of a thing or its significant individual feature or features:
    He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain what he cannot lose.

    Jim Elliot

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  9. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by nikolai_42 View Post
    I had a response to this but didn't get it submitted (and that was a few days ago) so this is not what I had hoped it to be, but....

    Jesus makes it plain in John 17 that He was with the Father before the world was. He pre-existed. He was with the Father. Philippians 2:6 says He was in the form of God. Reading that whole passage, it's pretty clear that He took on the form of man after being in the form of God. John 1:1 says the Word was God :

    In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
    John 1:1

    And within a few verses, it is made a personal thing ("he", not "it")

    The same was in the beginning with God.
    All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
    In him was life; and the life was the light of men.

    John 1:2-4

    And just to make it abundantly clear, that pre-existing Word is identified clearly with Christ :

    And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
    John bare witness of him, and cried, saying, This was he of whom I spake, He that cometh after me is preferred before me: for he was before me.

    John 1:14-15

    So it seems clear to me that Jesus was God and came to earth as a man.

    Now...to the name. I was immediately reminded of Isaiah's prophecy :

    For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.
    Of the increase of his government and peace there shall be no end, upon the throne of David, and upon his kingdom, to order it, and to establish it with judgment and with justice from henceforth even for ever. The zeal of the Lord of hosts will perform this.

    Isaiah 9:6-7

    Those underlined titles appear to be consonant (if not entirely equivalent) with calling Him God (Counsellor an allusion - if indirect - to the Holy Spirit). And the portion about His name is directly applicable to your post. Note that it is in the future. In other words, it is pointing to the child being born. It is pointing to the incarnation - recognizing the identity but seeing it from an earthly standpoint. In other words, it wasn't God visibly coming to earth as God so that the prophecy would say "God is coming to earth" but rather that a provision is being sent. These names could not be given to someone who isn't already Deity (Isaiah 42:8).

    So where does that leave us with Him being given a name? Having established His pre-existence (with the Father!), His form as God and His incarnation, that name implies an office. A unique office :

    This is the stone which was set at nought of you builders, which is become the head of the corner.
    Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.

    Acts 4:11-12

    And I saw a strong angel proclaiming with a loud voice, Who is worthy to open the book, and to loose the seals thereof?
    And no man in heaven, nor in earth, neither under the earth, was able to open the book, neither to look thereon.
    And I wept much, because no man was found worthy to open and to read the book, neither to look thereon.
    And one of the elders saith unto me, Weep not: behold, the Lion of the tribe of Judah, the Root of David, hath prevailed to open the book, and to loose the seven seals thereof.
    And I beheld, and, lo, in the midst of the throne and of the four beasts, and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb as it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God sent forth into all the earth.

    Revelation 5:2-6

    That name doesn't mean He became God. It means He was put in a unique position of being Savior of the world. He was not a man (like Saul, for example) who needed to be saved and then was given a new name indicating some change. And as God does not give His glory to another, that name indicated that God published that new name by which salvation was available (and in that name alone). It was a unique office, a unique position, a unique role that could be filled by One and One alone. The name reflects that. And so God is glorified in that new name being uttered and published abroad to the ends of the earth - to the salvation of many. Jesus accomplished that which was given to Him to do by the Father and so He receives public acclaim correspondent to that.

    Phil 2:5, it does not speak of Jesus, it speaks of what was IN him.
    Psalm 1[/COLOR] and Job 28:28

    Rev 22:14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

    Joh 4:23 "But an hour is coming, and now is, when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth; for such people the Father seeks to be His worshipers.

    I love the God of my Lord Jesus Christ

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    Quote Originally Posted by keypurr View Post
    Phil 2:5, it does not speak of Jesus, it speaks of what was IN him.
    If made in human likeness, what was He before that?
    He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain what he cannot lose.

    Jim Elliot

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  12. #38
    Over 2000 post club nikolai_42's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by keypurr View Post
    Phil 2:5, it does not speak of Jesus, it speaks of what was IN him.

    Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:
    Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:
    But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:
    And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.

    Phil 2:5-8

    And in Christ was this mind (this understanding). But you can't ignore the reason that was said. He - though He was in the form of God - took on the form of a servant and was made in the likeness of man. It is the astounding humility. That someone who was in the form of God would take on the form of a servant in the likeness of man is this "mind". He which was in the form of God became a servant in the form of man. It wasn't man being given an infusion that was Christ.
    Last edited by nikolai_42; May 25th, 2019 at 02:02 PM. Reason: formatting scripture
    If God promises life, He slayeth first; when He builds, He casteth all down first. God is no patcher; He cannot build on another's foundation. - William Tyndale

    The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?
    Jeremiah 17:9

    Who is among you that feareth the Lord, that obeyeth the voice of his servant, that walketh in darkness, and hath no light? let him trust in the name of the Lord, and stay upon his God.
    Behold, all ye that kindle a fire, that compass yourselves about with sparks: walk in the light of your fire, and in the sparks that ye have kindled. This shall ye have of mine hand; ye shall lie down in sorrow.

    Isaiah 50:10-11

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  14. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bright Raven View Post
    If made in human likeness, what was He before that?
    Ask yourself what is YHWH? Jesus tells us the God is a SPIRIT.

    Heb 1:3 tells us that the true son is also a SPIRIT.

    Phil 2:5 tells us that which was IN Jesus became flesh. And that spirit was a FORM of god.

    Heb 10:5 tells us that God prepared a body for his Christ.

    Oh my friend, you have read this all before.
    Psalm 1[/COLOR] and Job 28:28

    Rev 22:14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

    Joh 4:23 "But an hour is coming, and now is, when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth; for such people the Father seeks to be His worshipers.

    I love the God of my Lord Jesus Christ

  15. #40
    TOL Legend keypurr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nikolai_42 View Post
    Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:
    Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:
    But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:
    And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.

    Phil 2:5-8

    And in Christ was this mind (this understanding). But you can't ignore the reason that was said. He - though He was in the form of God - took on the form of a servant and was made in the likeness of man. It is the astounding humility. That someone who was in the form of God would take on the form of a servant in the likeness of man is this "mind". He which was in the form of God became a servant in the form of man. It wasn't man being given an infusion that was Christ.
    True, that SPIRIT, the Miltha, is a FORM of god, but not God himself. What did the DOVE bring?

    Acts 10:38. Notice the word POWER. The Miltha was given the fullness of his creator. Col 1.
    Psalm 1[/COLOR] and Job 28:28

    Rev 22:14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

    Joh 4:23 "But an hour is coming, and now is, when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth; for such people the Father seeks to be His worshipers.

    I love the God of my Lord Jesus Christ

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bright Raven View Post
    the basic, real, and invariable nature of a thing or its significant individual feature or features:
    I know that. I am asking you what you say the essence of God is, since you went against me and should be able to explain your beliefs.
    Oh how I love the Word of God!

    Do not just read the word do it.

  17. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by God's Truth View Post
    God the Father came as a Son in the flesh.
    The Father is not the Son.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jacob View Post
    The Father is not the Son.
    There is only one God and He is the Father.

    Jesus is exactly like the Father.

    In fact, when a person receives the Holy Spirit they receive the Father and Jesus, yet only one Spirit.

    They are one and one means 'the same'.
    Oh how I love the Word of God!

    Do not just read the word do it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by God's Truth View Post
    There is only one God and He is the Father.

    Jesus is exactly like the Father.

    In fact, when a person receives the Holy Spirit they receive the Father and Jesus, yet only one Spirit.

    They are one and one means 'the same'.
    The Father is not a man. The Son is a man.

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    Quote Originally Posted by God's Truth View Post
    I know that. I am asking you what you say the essence of God is, since you went against me and should be able to explain your beliefs.
    You believe in a plethora of god's. I believe in one expresses in three persons.
    He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain what he cannot lose.

    Jim Elliot

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