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Thread: Is Jesus God?

  1. #16
    LIFETIME MEMBER Bright Raven's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oatmeal View Post
    Jesus is not God. He is not "God the Son" a term that scripture never uses to describe Jesus Christ.

    There is an abundance of scripture that identifies Jesus Christ to be the son of God.

    Matthew 2:15 And was there until the death of Herod: that it might be fulfilled which was spoken of the Lord by the prophet, saying, Out of Egypt have I called my son.

    Matthew 3:17 And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.

    Matthew 11:27 All things are delivered unto me of my Father: and no man knoweth the Son, but the Father; neither knoweth any man the Father, save the Son, and he to whomsoever the Son will reveal him.

    Matthew 14:33 Then they that were in the ship came and worshipped him, saying, Of a truth thou art the Son of God.

    Matthew 16:16 And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.

    Matthew 17:5 While he yet spake, behold, a bright cloud overshadowed them: and behold a voice out of the cloud, which said, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased; hear ye him.

    Mark 1:1 The beginning of the gospel of Jesus Christ, the Son of God;

    Mark 1:11 And there came a voice from heaven, saying, Thou art my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.

    Mark 9:7 And there was a cloud that overshadowed them: and a voice came out of the cloud, saying, This is my beloved Son: hear him.


    Mark 13:32 But of that day and that hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father.

    Luke 1:32 He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David:


    Luke 1:35 And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.

    Luke 3:22 And the Holy Ghost descended in a bodily shape like a dove upon him, and a voice came from heaven, which said, Thou art my beloved Son; in thee I am well pleased.


    Luke 9:35 And there came a voice out of the cloud, saying, This is my beloved Son: hear him.

    Luke 10:22 All things are delivered to me of my Father: and no man knoweth who the Son is, but the Father; and who the Father is, but the Son, and he to whom the Son will reveal him.

    Luke 22:70 Then said they all, Art thou then the Son of God? And he said unto them, Ye say that I am.

    John 1:18 No man hath seen God at any time, the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.

    John 1:49 Nathanael answered and saith unto him, Rabbi, thou art the Son of God; thou art the King of Israel.

    John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

    John 3:17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

    John 3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

    John 3:35 The Father loveth the Son, and hath given all things into his hand.

    John 3:36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.


    John 5:19 Then answered Jesus and said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do: for what things soever he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise.

    John 5:20 For the Father loveth the Son, and sheweth him all things that himself doeth: and he will shew him greater works than these, that ye may marvel.


    John 5:21 For as the Father raiseth up the dead, and quickeneth them; even so the Son quickeneth whom he will.

    John 5:22 For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son:

    John 5:23 That all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him.

    John 5:25 Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live.

    John 5:26 For as the Father hath life in himself; so hath he given to the Son to have life in himself;

    John 6:40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

    John 6:69 And we believe and are sure that thou art that Christ, the Son of the living God.

    John 8:36 If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed.

    John 9:35 Jesus heard that they had cast him out; and when he had found him, he said unto him, Dost thou believe on the Son of God?

    John 10:36 Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God?

    John 11:4 When Jesus heard that, he said, This sickness is not unto death, but for the glory of God, that the Son of God might be glorified thereby.


    That is not all of them but there is plenty there to clearly show that Jesus is referred to as the son of God.

    So which of those scriptures do you believe?

    Why?

    Which ones do you deny?

    Why?
    Where does the Father ever say He is not God?
    He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain what he cannot lose.

    Jim Elliot

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    Yes, Jesus is God.
    Those who say otherwise are the people Peter warns against.
    2 Peter 2:1
    But false prophets also arose among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you, who will secretly bring in destructive heresies, even denying the Master who bought them, bringing upon themselves swift destruction.

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    Greetings again Bright Raven,
    Quote Originally Posted by Bright Raven View Post
    Thank You Trevor, If what you say is true, how do you handle the following Scriptures;
    John 1:1,14 (KJV): 1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
    These Scriptures state that Jesus is God.
    Different to many non-Trinitarians I do not believe that it is speaking of Jesus in John 1:1, but that “the Word” is a personification similar to the Wise Woman “Wisdom” in Proverbs 8. Jesus is revealed in John 1:14 and this is not speaking of his physical glory, but his moral glory, he was full of grace and truth.

    There is a connection between John 1:14 and the following:
    Exodus 34:5–7 (KJV): 5 And the LORD descended in the cloud, and stood with him there, and proclaimed the name of the LORD. 6 And the LORD passed by before him, and proclaimed, The LORD, The LORD God, merciful and gracious, longsuffering, and abundant in goodness and truth, 7 Keeping mercy for thousands, forgiving iniquity and transgression and sin, and that will by no means clear the guilty; visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children, and upon the children’s children, unto the third and to the fourth generation.
    Moses had asked to see the Glory of Yahweh, and this was revealed in physical glory that Moses could not fully behold, and also the declaration of the above moral glory. The phrase “abundant in goodness and truth” is similar to or a direct connection with "full of grace and truth", the character revealed in Jesus during his ministry. Thus John 1:1 is not talking about a separate physical being, but the moral character of God, the thoughts and plans of God, and the wisdom behind God’s spoken word and all of this finds its focus in God's Son.

    Please consider the partial personification of God’s “word” in the following:
    Psalm 33:6,9 (KJV): 6 By the word of the LORD were the heavens made; and all the host of them by the breath of his mouth. 9 For he spake, and it was done; he commanded, and it stood fast.
    Isaiah 55:8–11 (KJV): 8 For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the LORD. 9 For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts. 10 For as the rain cometh down, and the snow from heaven, and returneth not thither, but watereth the earth, and maketh it bring forth and bud, that it may give seed to the sower, and bread to the eater: 11 So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it.


    Another aspect of John 1:14 is that the moral glory revealed in Jesus is attributable to the fact that Jesus is the only begotten of the Father. Trinitarians avoid this, or try to replace this with another idea, but this refers to the fact that God the Father was the father of Jesus Christ, and the other two Gospel records reveal this truth Matthew 1:20-21 and Luke 1:34-35. The physical glory of Jesus was temporarily revealed at the Mount of Transfiguration and was not part of Jesus during his ministry.

    Also note that John 1:14 says that the Word was made flesh. It does not say that God the Son added flesh to His existing Divinity, making him a God-man. All that the Word was became focused and complete in Jesus the Son of God. There is One God the Father, and our Lord Jesus Christ is the Son of God.

    Kind regards
    Trevor

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    Quote Originally Posted by Guyver View Post
    The Apostle Peter, and the Apostle John were both real Christians and they believed Jesus was the Son of God, and not God himself. Maybe that’s because Jesus agreed with them, and they were standing right there when God told them that.
    Since you are not a Christian, you don't understand what you're talking about.

    And since you are a troll, there's no point in saying more than that

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    Over 2000 post club nikolai_42's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bright Raven View Post
    What do you think? Present Scripture for your answer whether negative or positive
    Can someone be equal with God yet not be God?

    Jesus says people are equal to angels in their immortal state (Luke 20:36). In John 5:18 it is plainly stated that Jesus made Himself equal with God - therefore not just an exalted human (unless you believe people can attain that status in contradiction to Luke 20:36).

    Hebrews says He was made a little lower than the angels for the tasting of death. In other words He was humbled by being incarnated. So says Philippians 2:6. He was in the form of God but humbled Himself and took on the form of man. God became man.


    Sent from my iPhone using TOL
    If God promises life, He slayeth first; when He builds, He casteth all down first. God is no patcher; He cannot build on another's foundation. - William Tyndale

    The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?
    Jeremiah 17:9

    Who is among you that feareth the Lord, that obeyeth the voice of his servant, that walketh in darkness, and hath no light? let him trust in the name of the Lord, and stay upon his God.
    Behold, all ye that kindle a fire, that compass yourselves about with sparks: walk in the light of your fire, and in the sparks that ye have kindled. This shall ye have of mine hand; ye shall lie down in sorrow.

    Isaiah 50:10-11

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bright Raven View Post
    Where does the Father ever say He is not God?
    Does He have to?

    If God says that a particular animal is a camel, does He have to list all the animals that that particular animal is not?

    Why don't you ask Him?

    God is the author of scripture, not me.

    For that matter, where does is say that Jesus is a not a girl? or a camel?

    For that matter, what else does scripture say Jesus is?

    Matthew 8:20 And Jesus saith unto him, The foxes have holes, and the birds of the air have nests; but the Son of man hath not where to lay his head.


    Matthew 9:6 But that ye may know that the Son of man hath power on earth to forgive sins, (then saith he to the sick of the palsy,) Arise, take up thy bed, and go unto thine house.

    Matthew 10:23 But when they persecute you in this city, flee ye into another: for verily I say unto you, Ye shall not have gone over the cities of Israel, till the Son of man be come.

    Matthew 11:19 The Son of man came eating and drinking, and they say, Behold a man gluttonous, and a winebibber, a friend of publicans and sinners. But wisdom is justified of her children.

    Matthew 12:8 For the Son of man is Lord even of the sabbath day.

    Matthew 12:32 And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come.


    Matthew 12:40 For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.

    Matthew 13:37 He answered and said unto them, He that soweth the good seed is the Son of man;

    Matthew 13:41 The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity;

    Matthew 16:13 When Jesus came into the coasts of Caesarea Philippi, he asked his disciples, saying, Whom do men say that I the Son of man am?


    Matthew 16:27 For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works.

    Matthew 16:28 Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom.

    Matthew 17:9 And as they came down from the mountain, Jesus charged them, saying, Tell the vision to no man, until the Son of man be risen again from the dead.

    Matthew 17:12 But I say unto you, That Elias is come already, and they knew him not, but have done unto him whatsoever they listed. Likewise shall also the Son of man suffer of them.

    Matthew 17:22 And while they abode in Galilee, Jesus said unto them, The Son of man shall be betrayed into the hands of men:

    Matthew 18:11 For the Son of man is come to save that which was lost.

    Matthew 19:28 And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.

    Matthew 20:18 Behold, we go up to Jerusalem; and the Son of man shall be betrayed unto the chief priests and unto the scribes, and they shall condemn him to death,

    Matthew 20:28 Even as the Son of man came not to be ministered unto, but to minister, and to give his life a ransom for many.

    Matthew 24:27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

    Matthew 24:30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

    Matthew 24:37 But as the days of Noah were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

    Matthew 24:39 And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

    Matthew 24:44 Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh.

    Matthew 25:13 Watch therefore, for ye know neither the day nor the hour wherein the Son of man cometh.

    Matthew 25:31 When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:

    Matthew 26:2 Ye know that after two days is the feast of the passover, and the Son of man is betrayed to be crucified.

    Matthew 26:24 The Son of man goeth as it is written of him: but woe unto that man by whom the Son of man is betrayed! it had been good for that man if he had not been born.

    Matthew 26:45 Then cometh he to his disciples, and saith unto them, Sleep on now, and take your rest: behold, the hour is at hand, and the Son of man is betrayed into the hands of sinners.

    Matthew 26:64 Jesus saith unto him, Thou hast said: nevertheless I say unto you, Hereafter shall ye see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven.

    Mark 2:10 But that ye may know that the Son of man hath power on earth to forgive sins, (he saith to the sick of the palsy,)

    Mark 2:28 Therefore the Son of man is Lord also of the sabbath.



    So, that should be enough to learn something about who God's logos, His word in writing says who Jesus the anointed one is.



    Instead of finding excuses for not believing the scriptures, why not seek to learn to believe what is written and quit stewing about what is not written?

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    Over 750 post club Guyver's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ok doser View Post
    Since you are not a Christian, you don't understand what you're talking about.

    And since you are a troll, there's no point in saying more than that
    You must think it difficult to read and understand what words mean.
    Sometimes the hardest thing and the right thing are the same.

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    I said the Apostles Peter and John believed that Jesus was the Son of God, not God himself.

    " He said to them, “But who do you say that I am?”

    16 Simon Peter answered and said, “You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.”

    17 Jesus answered and said to him, “Blessed are you, Simon Bar-Jonah, for flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but My Father who is in heaven."

    Jesus agreed with Peter, and claimed it was God who had given him this understanding. Matt 16

    " And we know that the Son of God has come and has given us an understanding, that we may know Him who is true; and we are in Him who is true, in His Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God and eternal life."

    1 John 5
    Sometimes the hardest thing and the right thing are the same.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Guyver View Post
    You must think it difficult to read and understand what words mean.
    if you aren't indwelt with the Holy Spirit (and you're not) there's no language I can use to communicate with you

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    Quote Originally Posted by ok doser View Post
    if you aren't indwelt with the Holy Spirit (and you're not) there's no language I can use to communicate with you
    Careful now....if you are blaspheming the Holy Spirit here, you may have just lit yourself on fire for all eternity. Not that you'd care. Anyway......I'll make you a deal....you don't talk to me and I won't talk to you. Fair enough?
    Sometimes the hardest thing and the right thing are the same.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Guyver View Post
    Careful now....if you are blaspheming the Holy Spirit here, you may have just lit yourself on fire for all eternity. ?
    i'd say you are acting like a child, but that would be unfair to children (and deny the faith of a child archetype)

    no, you're acting like a troll

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    Post Re:

    .
    Quote Originally Posted by nikolai_42 View Post
    Can someone be equal with God yet not be God?
    Human beings are intrinsically inferior to God in every way. However, there is one who has achieved equality with God via a special promotion.

    Phil 2:9-11 . .God exalted him to the highest place and gave him the name that is above every name, that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth, and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

    FAQ: What is "the" name that is above every name?

    A: Jehovah (Isa 42:8)

    In other words; as a reward for his immeasurable service to God and mankind, the human being Jesus Christ was given the right to us the name of God for his own name; and along with that name, all the honor, power, and reverence that goes with it. So that now, refusal to acknowledge Jesus Christ as Jehovah is all the same as refusing to acknowledge God as Jehovah.
    _

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    Quote Originally Posted by Guyver View Post
    I said the Apostles Peter and John believed that Jesus was the Son of God, not God himself.

    " He said to them, “But who do you say that I am?”

    16 Simon Peter answered and said, “You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.”

    17 Jesus answered and said to him, “Blessed are you, Simon Bar-Jonah, for flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but My Father who is in heaven."

    Jesus agreed with Peter, and claimed it was God who had given him this understanding. Matt 16

    " And we know that the Son of God has come and has given us an understanding, that we may know Him who is true; and we are in Him who is true, in His Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God and eternal life."

    1 John 5
    Well spoken

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    Quote Originally Posted by WeberHome View Post
    .


    Human beings are intrinsically inferior to God in every way. However, there is one who has achieved equality with God via a special promotion.

    Phil 2:9-11 . .God exalted him to the highest place and gave him the name that is above every name, that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth, and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

    FAQ: What is "the" name that is above every name?

    A: Jehovah (Isa 42:8)

    In other words; as a reward for his immeasurable service to God and mankind, the human being Jesus Christ was given the right to us the name of God for his own name; and along with that name, all the honor, power, and reverence that goes with it. So that now, refusal to acknowledge Jesus Christ as Jehovah is all the same as refusing to acknowledge God as Jehovah.
    _
    Interesting.

    Certainly, it is commonplace for the offspring to be given the name of the father.

    I have the last name of my father, in the USA, that is common for the children to be given the father's last name.

    I cannot speak broadly about the Hebrew culture, but most certainly, it is not uncommon for people in scripture to be referred to as the son or daughter of a named person.

    Matthew 10:2-3

    Now the names of the twelve apostles are these; The first, Simon, who is called Peter, and Andrew his brother; James the son of Zebedee, and John his brother;

    Philip, and Bartholomew; Thomas, and Matthew the publican; James the son of Alphaeus, and Lebbaeus, whose surname was Thaddaeus;

    Matthew 26:37

    And he took with him Peter and the two sons of Zebedee, and began to be sorrowful and very heavy.

    1 Samuel 1:1

    Now there was a certain man of Ramathaimzophim, of mount Ephraim, and his name was Elkanah, the son of Jeroham, the son of Elihu, the son of Tohu, the son of Zuph, an Ephrathite:

    1 Samuel 9:1 Now there was a man of Benjamin, whose name was Kish, the son of Abiel, the son of Zeror, the son of Bechorath, the son of Aphiah, a Benjamite, a mighty man of power.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Guyver View Post
    Jesus Christ: this is the true God and eternal life
    Punctuation: altered slightly.
    "That man of sin must first be revealed." -- Jesus

    If you haven't tried: you've already failed. -- Aimiel

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    ok doser (May 19th, 2019)

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