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Thread: Saved Statis Can Be Revoked

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    Quote Originally Posted by Squeaky View Post
    I said
    Saved is temporary, salvation is eternal.
    You've taken two english words, changed the part of speech of one of them and then read into the implications of each one.

    Do you have any justification for comparing the two that way? Is Matthew 13:13 talking about something that can be revoked when it is specifically speaking about the end? Will it be revoked in eternity? Should we have an asterisk next to Matthew 16:16 that says he that believeth and is baptized might be saved? Because that's the implication you are reading into the text. Should we be double-minded about Acts 4:12?

    Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.
    Acts 4:12

    Because if we take your understanding and apply it the name of Jesus provides temporary salvation but also permanent salvation...

    Acts 15:11 speaks of the future of someone who is already saved as being saved in the future as well as in the present.

    So you see, trying to make salvation and saved have different upshots is only confusing the words of scripture.
    If God promises life, He slayeth first; when He builds, He casteth all down first. God is no patcher; He cannot build on another's foundation. - William Tyndale

    The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?
    Jeremiah 17:9

    Who is among you that feareth the Lord, that obeyeth the voice of his servant, that walketh in darkness, and hath no light? let him trust in the name of the Lord, and stay upon his God.
    Behold, all ye that kindle a fire, that compass yourselves about with sparks: walk in the light of your fire, and in the sparks that ye have kindled. This shall ye have of mine hand; ye shall lie down in sorrow.

    Isaiah 50:10-11

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    Quote Originally Posted by nikolai_42 View Post
    You've taken two english words, changed the part of speech of one of them and then read into the implications of each one.

    Do you have any justification for comparing the two that way? Is Matthew 13:13 talking about something that can be revoked when it is specifically speaking about the end? Will it be revoked in eternity? Should we have an asterisk next to Matthew 16:16 that says he that believeth and is baptized might be saved? Because that's the implication you are reading into the text. Should we be double-minded about Acts 4:12?

    Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.
    Acts 4:12

    Because if we take your understanding and apply it the name of Jesus provides temporary salvation but also permanent salvation...

    Acts 15:11 speaks of the future of someone who is already saved as being saved in the future as well as in the present.

    So you see, trying to make salvation and saved have different upshots is only confusing the words of scripture.
    I said
    The reason we get saved is so we can work out our salvation.

    [Phl 2:12
    [12] Therefore, my beloved, as you have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling;

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    LIFETIME MEMBER Bright Raven's Avatar
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    We cannot loose our salvation.

    John 10:27-29 New Living Translation (NLT)
    27 My sheep listen to my voice; I know them, and they follow me. 28 I give them eternal life, and they will never perish. No one can snatch them away from me, 29 for my Father has given them to me, and he is more powerful than anyone else. No one can snatch them from the Father’s hand.
    He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain what he cannot lose.

    Jim Elliot

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bright Raven View Post
    We cannot loose our salvation.

    John 10:27-29 New Living Translation (NLT)
    27 My sheep listen to my voice; I know them, and they follow me. 28 I give them eternal life, and they will never perish. No one can snatch them away from me, 29 for my Father has given them to me, and he is more powerful than anyone else. No one can snatch them from the Father’s hand.
    I said
    But one can fall from grace, be disqualified, or even fall short of salvation.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Squeaky View Post
    I said
    But one can fall from grace, be disqualified, or even fall short of salvation.
    Falling short is different from loosing.
    He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain what he cannot lose.

    Jim Elliot

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bright Raven View Post
    Falling short is different from loosing.
    I said
    Not according to the bible.

    [1Co 9:24–27
    [24] Do you not know that those who run in a race all run, but one receives the prize? Run in such a way that you may obtain [it].
    [25] And everyone who competes [for the prize] is temperate in all things. Now they [do it] to obtain a perishable crown, but we [for] an imperishable [crown].
    [26] Therefore I run thus: not with uncertainty. Thus I fight: not as [one who] beats the air.
    [27] But I discipline my body and bring [it] into subjection, lest, when I have preached to others, I myself should become disqualified.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Squeaky View Post
    I said
    The reason we get saved is so we can work out our salvation.

    [Phl 2:12
    [12] Therefore, my beloved, as you have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling;
    You have said that salvation is eternal. If we are working out something eternal (though I still don't agree with the distinction you make), then how does this say you can lose it? Especially if it refers to what you say is eternal....
    If God promises life, He slayeth first; when He builds, He casteth all down first. God is no patcher; He cannot build on another's foundation. - William Tyndale

    The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?
    Jeremiah 17:9

    Who is among you that feareth the Lord, that obeyeth the voice of his servant, that walketh in darkness, and hath no light? let him trust in the name of the Lord, and stay upon his God.
    Behold, all ye that kindle a fire, that compass yourselves about with sparks: walk in the light of your fire, and in the sparks that ye have kindled. This shall ye have of mine hand; ye shall lie down in sorrow.

    Isaiah 50:10-11

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    Quote Originally Posted by nikolai_42 View Post
    You have said that salvation is eternal. If we are working out something eternal (though I still don't agree with the distinction you make), then how does this say you can lose it? Especially if it refers to what you say is eternal....
    I said
    We are all sinners. Until the authority of the old testament. Satans throne. When we turn to the Lord Jesus and the new testament, satan will try to stop us. So God saves us from satan because we are trying to work out our salvation in Christ and the new testament. It takes a life time to do this. Now as long as we are working at it we have the right to salvation(being accepted). But we will stumble and make mistakes. Some will be disqualified because they have faith but no works. Some will fall from grace because of the old testament. Some will fall short because they became lukewarm. All the evidence in making it is when you comes to the revelations of Jesus Christ. I'm sharing my revelations that I receive.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Squeaky View Post
    I said
    We are all sinners. Until the authority of the old testament. Satans throne. When we turn to the Lord Jesus and the new testament, satan will try to stop us. So God saves us from satan because we are trying to work out our salvation in Christ and the new testament. It takes a life time to do this. Now as long as we are working at it we have the right to salvation(being accepted). But we will stumble and make mistakes. Some will be disqualified because they have faith but no works. Some will fall from grace because of the old testament. Some will fall short because they became lukewarm. All the evidence in making it is when you comes to the revelations of Jesus Christ. I'm sharing my revelations that I receive.
    You didn't even address the question let alone give a satisfactory answer.
    I know Him, correctly, as Messiah whom you call Christ. Yah Shua whom you call Jesus. Messianists who you call Christians.

    "Touch not mine anointed, and do my prophets no harm".

    I refuse, point blank, to speak peace to the unregenerate, hypocrites, religious dogma lovers and those that oppose the following statement:
    A regenerate man trusts in the evangelism of salvation conditioned on the atoning blood and imputed justness of Messiah alone.
    If you are fully persuaded, by experience, of this delightful, beautiful and life giving doctrine then I love you as a brother.

    Anyone who thinks that salvation is conditioned on anything a man thinks, does or says is atheist. I cannot and will not speak peace to him or her.

    I don't make statements online that I wouldn't repeat in front of my Maker, my grandmother or a judge.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Truster View Post
    You didn't even address the question let alone give a satisfactory answer.
    I said
    I like the answer. But maybe I misunderstood the question. Refraise it and ask again, and I will try again.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Squeaky View Post
    I said
    I like the answer. But maybe I misunderstood the question. Refraise it and ask again, and I will try again.
    nikolai_42 asked the question so I'll leave it to him.

    How old are you Squeaky?
    I know Him, correctly, as Messiah whom you call Christ. Yah Shua whom you call Jesus. Messianists who you call Christians.

    "Touch not mine anointed, and do my prophets no harm".

    I refuse, point blank, to speak peace to the unregenerate, hypocrites, religious dogma lovers and those that oppose the following statement:
    A regenerate man trusts in the evangelism of salvation conditioned on the atoning blood and imputed justness of Messiah alone.
    If you are fully persuaded, by experience, of this delightful, beautiful and life giving doctrine then I love you as a brother.

    Anyone who thinks that salvation is conditioned on anything a man thinks, does or says is atheist. I cannot and will not speak peace to him or her.

    I don't make statements online that I wouldn't repeat in front of my Maker, my grandmother or a judge.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Truster View Post
    nikolai_42 asked the question so I'll leave it to him.

    How old are you Squeaky?
    I said
    I will be 72 in a couple of weeks. And I'm a man.

  17. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Squeaky View Post
    I said
    I like the answer. But maybe I misunderstood the question. Refraise it and ask again, and I will try again.
    You quoted Philippians 2:

    Therefore, my beloved, as you have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling;
    Philippians 2:12

    Your own statement is that "Saved is temporary, salvation is eternal". Here Paul says that you are supposed to work out your own "salvation". By your own definition that is eternal. In other words, what God is working in you if you are His (referenced in Philippians 2:13) is "eternal". "Eternal" means more than just never-ending, but for the purposes of your own definition I'm using it in your way.

    So if what is in the believer is eternal, why do you use it to try and prove it to be temporary? The only logical (not scriptural) way I can see for you to do that is to isolate being saved from salvation. And if that's the case, then what is in the believer (per Philippians 2:12) can't be eternal - otherwise you couldn't lose it.

    Which raises the initial point I was trying to make. From your recent post (emphasis mine) :

    Quote Originally Posted by Squeaky View Post
    I said
    We are all sinners. Until the authority of the old testament. Satans throne. When we turn to the Lord Jesus and the new testament, satan will try to stop us. So God saves us from satan because we are trying to work out our salvation in Christ and the new testament. It takes a life time to do this. Now as long as we are working at it we have the right to salvation(being accepted). But we will stumble and make mistakes. Some will be disqualified because they have faith but no works. Some will fall from grace because of the old testament. Some will fall short because they became lukewarm. All the evidence in making it is when you comes to the revelations of Jesus Christ. I'm sharing my revelations that I receive.
    Your trust has to be in you - because God will not (according to your own words) provide eternal salvation to you otherwise. Your gospel is that we are saved eternally "...because we are trying...". In other words, the determining factor (because God has done all He can or will) is your own effort. Your works. Therefore, your eternal salvation depends on you. If your trust is in yourself, uncertainty will certainly predominate.

    Not so the scriptures :

    My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:
    And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.
    My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.

    John 10:27-29

    But we had the sentence of death in ourselves, that we should not trust in ourselves, but in God which raiseth the dead:
    Who delivered us from so great a death, and doth deliver: in whom we trust that he will yet deliver us;

    2 Corinthians 1:9-10

    And such trust have we through Christ to God-ward:
    Not that we are sufficient of ourselves to think any thing as of ourselves; but our sufficiency is of God;

    2 Corinthians 3:4-5

    Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;
    Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour;
    That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.

    Titus 3:5-7

    Yea doubtless, and I count all things but loss for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord: for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and do count them but dung, that I may win Christ,
    And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:
    That I may know him, and the power of his resurrection, and the fellowship of his sufferings, being made conformable unto his death;
    If by any means I might attain unto the resurrection of the dead.
    Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect: but I follow after, if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus.
    Brethren, I count not myself to have apprehended: but this one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind, and reaching forth unto those things which are before,
    I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus.

    Philippians 3:8-14

    How can one who has known the goodness of Christ and the power of His resurrection think that anything he does is meritorious? How can the resurrection be anulled simply because we don't try? Ephesians 2 says we are saved unto good works. They are the evidence of faith - not the effort by which we get faith. We persevere because of His work in us - our salvation is evidence of His work, not ratified by ours.
    If God promises life, He slayeth first; when He builds, He casteth all down first. God is no patcher; He cannot build on another's foundation. - William Tyndale

    The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?
    Jeremiah 17:9

    Who is among you that feareth the Lord, that obeyeth the voice of his servant, that walketh in darkness, and hath no light? let him trust in the name of the Lord, and stay upon his God.
    Behold, all ye that kindle a fire, that compass yourselves about with sparks: walk in the light of your fire, and in the sparks that ye have kindled. This shall ye have of mine hand; ye shall lie down in sorrow.

    Isaiah 50:10-11

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    Quote Originally Posted by nikolai_42 View Post
    You quoted Philippians 2:

    Therefore, my beloved, as you have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling;
    Philippians 2:12

    Your own statement is that "Saved is temporary, salvation is eternal". Here Paul says that you are supposed to work out your own "salvation". By your own definition that is eternal. In other words, what God is working in you if you are His (referenced in Philippians 2:13) is "eternal". "Eternal" means more than just never-ending, but for the purposes of your own definition I'm using it in your way.

    So if what is in the believer is eternal, why do you use it to try and prove it to be temporary? The only logical (not scriptural) way I can see for you to do that is to isolate being saved from salvation. And if that's the case, then what is in the believer (per Philippians 2:12) can't be eternal - otherwise you couldn't lose it.

    Which raises the initial point I was trying to make. From your recent post (emphasis mine) :



    Your trust has to be in you - because God will not (according to your own words) provide eternal salvation to you otherwise. Your gospel is that we are saved eternally "...because we are trying...". In other words, the determining factor (because God has done all He can or will) is your own effort. Your works. Therefore, your eternal salvation depends on you. If your trust is in yourself, uncertainty will certainly predominate.

    Not so the scriptures :

    My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:
    And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.
    My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.

    John 10:27-29

    But we had the sentence of death in ourselves, that we should not trust in ourselves, but in God which raiseth the dead:
    Who delivered us from so great a death, and doth deliver: in whom we trust that he will yet deliver us;

    2 Corinthians 1:9-10

    And such trust have we through Christ to God-ward:
    Not that we are sufficient of ourselves to think any thing as of ourselves; but our sufficiency is of God;

    2 Corinthians 3:4-5

    Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;
    Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour;
    That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.

    Titus 3:5-7

    Yea doubtless, and I count all things but loss for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord: for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and do count them but dung, that I may win Christ,
    And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:
    That I may know him, and the power of his resurrection, and the fellowship of his sufferings, being made conformable unto his death;
    If by any means I might attain unto the resurrection of the dead.
    Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect: but I follow after, if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus.
    Brethren, I count not myself to have apprehended: but this one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind, and reaching forth unto those things which are before,
    I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus.

    Philippians 3:8-14

    How can one who has known the goodness of Christ and the power of His resurrection think that anything he does is meritorious? How can the resurrection be anulled simply because we don't try? Ephesians 2 says we are saved unto good works. They are the evidence of faith - not the effort by which we get faith. We persevere because of His work in us - our salvation is evidence of His work, not ratified by ours.
    I said
    You seem to have the right verses with the wrong understanding. Phil 2 is point blank. You cant have salvation until you work it out with God. And that God is working in you to help you work it out. IF you are trying to work it out God saves you from the condemnation you deserve because you are trying to work it out. Until you have worked it out you havent received salvation yet.


    [Phl 2:12–13
    [12] Therefore, my beloved, as you have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling;
    [13] for it is God who works in you both to will and to do for [His] good pleasure.

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    Hahahahah I give up.
    I know Him, correctly, as Messiah whom you call Christ. Yah Shua whom you call Jesus. Messianists who you call Christians.

    "Touch not mine anointed, and do my prophets no harm".

    I refuse, point blank, to speak peace to the unregenerate, hypocrites, religious dogma lovers and those that oppose the following statement:
    A regenerate man trusts in the evangelism of salvation conditioned on the atoning blood and imputed justness of Messiah alone.
    If you are fully persuaded, by experience, of this delightful, beautiful and life giving doctrine then I love you as a brother.

    Anyone who thinks that salvation is conditioned on anything a man thinks, does or says is atheist. I cannot and will not speak peace to him or her.

    I don't make statements online that I wouldn't repeat in front of my Maker, my grandmother or a judge.

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