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Thread: A Christian Nation With Secular Law?

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    TOL Legend Jacob's Avatar
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    A Christian Nation With Secular Law?

    Is the United States of America a Christian Nation with Secular Law?

    Because we have the Ten Commandments and others from out of God's Law.

    Anyhow, it seems that that would be a contradiction. Rarely do people talk about God's Law in our Law Code.
    Bereishit - Genesis - Chapter 1

    1 In the beginning of God's creation of the heavens and the earth.
    :א בְּרֵאשִׁ֖ית בָּרָ֣א אֱלֹהִ֑ים אֵ֥ת הַשָּׁמַ֖יִם וְאֵ֥ת הָאָֽרֶץ

    in beginning he created gods the heavens and the earth

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    TOL Legend Jacob's Avatar
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    Secular Law. What is it? Law without God or godly influence?
    Bereishit - Genesis - Chapter 1

    1 In the beginning of God's creation of the heavens and the earth.
    :א בְּרֵאשִׁ֖ית בָּרָ֣א אֱלֹהִ֑ים אֵ֥ת הַשָּׁמַ֖יִם וְאֵ֥ת הָאָֽרֶץ

    in beginning he created gods the heavens and the earth

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    Over 500 post club TrumpTrainCA's Avatar
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    I hope you don't ever buy a horse because you would be beating that poor thing to death. All of your threads are minor variations on the same exact thing.

    Look, when the founding fathers established this country they purposely made the government separate from churches, and here is the reason why: They came from a country that had an official Church (Church of England) where the King was the official head of that church and you had to do what they said or be beheaded. The founding fathers wanted no part of that stuff. They wanted to allow Quakers and Lutherans and other Protestants a different Christians to do their own thing, and I suppose even Jewish people too. (Catholics were actually excluded from government, but that's another topic.) I believe that they assumed most of the population would always be Christian and therefore Christian values would be followed without any need to incorporate them into law. I don't think they foresaw what we have now, with Islam creeping in, atheism creeping in, and weird dangerous religions on top of that.

    A nation like ours requires the people to already have ethics and morals or else it does not work. When people lose their morals the government steps in to impose its own ethics and morals, and the problem with that is you may have a government run by people you don't like.

    Perhaps the great American Experience experiment is a failure because of this one flaw. It assumes a homogeneous people with generally the same ethics, and cannot handle the strain of so many diverse opinions. That's above my pay grade to analyze any further but it's certainly possible.

    At any rate, be that as it may, our government is set up in such a way that you cannot impose religious morals in the forms of law. If you want your morals and ethics to win the day in this country and have them reflected in our laws then you damn well better find a good way to make your argument without bringing religion into it. It can be done; bright men can make great arguments that appeal to all peoples. But that's the way it is here.

    "All aboard the Trump Train. Next stop, Victory Station, 2020!"

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    TOL Legend Jacob's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TrumpTrainCA View Post
    I hope you don't ever buy a horse because you would be beating that poor thing to death. All of your threads are minor variations on the same exact thing.

    Look, when the founding fathers established this country they purposely made the government separate from churches, and here is the reason why: They came from a country that had an official Church (Church of England) where the King was the official head of that church and you had to do what they said or be beheaded. The founding fathers wanted no part of that stuff. They wanted to allow Quakers and Lutherans and other Protestants a different Christians to do their own thing, and I suppose even Jewish people too. (Catholics were actually excluded from government, but that's another topic.) I believe that they assumed most of the population would always be Christian and therefore Christian values would be followed without any need to incorporate them into law. I don't think they foresaw what we have now, with Islam creeping in, atheism creeping in, and weird dangerous religions on top of that.

    A nation like ours requires the people to already have ethics and morals or else it does not work. When people lose their morals the government steps in to impose its own ethics and morals, and the problem with that is you may have a government run by people you don't like.

    Perhaps the great American Experience experiment is a failure because of this one flaw. It assumes a homogeneous people with generally the same ethics, and cannot handle the strain of so many diverse opinions. That's above my pay grade to analyze any further but it's certainly possible.

    At any rate, be that as it may, our government is set up in such a way that you cannot impose religious morals in the forms of law. If you want your morals and ethics to win the day in this country and have them reflected in our laws then you damn well better find a good way to make your argument without bringing religion into it. It can be done; bright men can make great arguments that appeal to all peoples. But that's the way it is here.
    I am not for a state religion and there is reason to say that I am not religious, but didn't one of the founding fathers say that the Constitution is for a religious people?

    Also, when a related point comes up I tend to say it again. Yours is a new response.

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    TOL Legend Jacob's Avatar
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    John Adams said, "Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious People. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other".
    Bereishit - Genesis - Chapter 1

    1 In the beginning of God's creation of the heavens and the earth.
    :א בְּרֵאשִׁ֖ית בָּרָ֣א אֱלֹהִ֑ים אֵ֥ת הַשָּׁמַ֖יִם וְאֵ֥ת הָאָֽרֶץ

    in beginning he created gods the heavens and the earth

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    TOL Legend Jacob's Avatar
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    Is secular law law without God? Law removed from God? Law separate and distinct from God?

    Those who support secular law support what? Law? Meaning, they don't think about God so they don't make a statement about Him in respect to their law?
    Bereishit - Genesis - Chapter 1

    1 In the beginning of God's creation of the heavens and the earth.
    :א בְּרֵאשִׁ֖ית בָּרָ֣א אֱלֹהִ֑ים אֵ֥ת הַשָּׁמַ֖יִם וְאֵ֥ת הָאָֽרֶץ

    in beginning he created gods the heavens and the earth

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    Gold level Subscriber drbrumley's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jacob View Post
    John Adams said, "Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious People. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other".
    Was John Adams correct? I believe so.
    Even in the very best of situations, voting is still an unmitigated failure. The fact that any simple majority of individuals (mob) can determine an outcome that adversely affects the minority (mob rule) is against all natural rights. In the United State today, all who vote harm others so that they might benefit. By voting, they are also sanctioning theft of private property at the point of a gun, and the redistribution of that property to those who did not earn it.

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    TOL Legend Jacob's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by drbrumley View Post
    Was John Adams correct? I believe so.
    Me too. I believe the same.
    Bereishit - Genesis - Chapter 1

    1 In the beginning of God's creation of the heavens and the earth.
    :א בְּרֵאשִׁ֖ית בָּרָ֣א אֱלֹהִ֑ים אֵ֥ת הַשָּׁמַ֖יִם וְאֵ֥ת הָאָֽרֶץ

    in beginning he created gods the heavens and the earth

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    Over 1000 post club The Horn's Avatar
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    First commandment - "Thous shalt have no other gods before me ". Well, in America ,people are free to believe in whichever gods they choose,or no god at all . Or they are SUPPOSED to be free to do this . If you are an American Hindu, you have the right to believe in the thousands of Hindu gods, and no one has the right to tell you you may not .
    Buddhism is an atheistic religion . People have the right to be Buddhists and or atheists in America . As an American, you have the right to believe in one god, two gods, three gods, or 50, 000 gods, or even one half a god if you choose .

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    TOL Legend Jacob's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Horn View Post
    First commandment - "Thous shalt have no other gods before me ". Well, in America ,people are free to believe in whichever gods they choose,or no god at all . Or they are SUPPOSED to be free to do this . If you are an American Hindu, you have the right to believe in the thousands of Hindu gods, and no one has the right to tell you you may not .
    Buddhism is an atheistic religion . People have the right to be Buddhists and or atheists in America . As an American, you have the right to believe in one god, two gods, three gods, or 50, 000 gods, or even one half a god if you choose .
    Did the commandment make it so people couldn't think or so they were reminded of the truth of what was? In other words, if God is God, I see no problem with this.

    But you may be defending other people's right to believe as they do. Perhaps we can think, all of us. But it is wrong to say that people can think against what God has revealed to us. Then we have freedom.
    Bereishit - Genesis - Chapter 1

    1 In the beginning of God's creation of the heavens and the earth.
    :א בְּרֵאשִׁ֖ית בָּרָ֣א אֱלֹהִ֑ים אֵ֥ת הַשָּׁמַ֖יִם וְאֵ֥ת הָאָֽרֶץ

    in beginning he created gods the heavens and the earth

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