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Thread: What the Law and the Bible say about Homosexuality.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ok doser View Post
    it's a natural consequence from the selfishness that overtook the country in the sixties - the foolish belief that freedom means freedom from consequences

    i've been considering lately that it may have been an unaviodable reaction to the deprivation and self-sacrifice of the 30's and 40's

    don;t know if you are familiar with Charles Murray or his book Coming Apart, in which he lays a lot of the current social ills at the feet of the collapse of marriage as an institution


    yes, on the individual level, an argument can be made that the individual should have the right to divorce

    but on a societal level, it's a recipe for disaster
    That is actually the conflating of license and liberty. They are two different concepts but are often conflated by those desiring a life of license, or in other words, a life of unrestrained licentiousness.

    I don't believe the depression of the 30s and early 40s had much to do with it. By the 30s the socialists were already in control of the teachers unions, our educational system, and our media. The combined power of all those institutions to reshape thought and morality is incredible, and the socialists of this country have long understood that they had to separate the population from its Christian roots if they were to take full political control of the nation as Christianity and the immorality inherent in godless socialism are diametrically opposed.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Clete View Post
    Way to defend the child molestation group, Kit.

    Hope you're proud of yourself.
    Know your enemy, it does not help to defeat them if you fill your knowledge of them with falsehoods and misrepresentations.
    "Repubs must not allow [The President] to subvert the Constitution of the US for his own benefit & because he is unable to negotiate w/ Congress," Donald Trump

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kit the Coyote View Post
    Know your enemy, it does not help to defeat them if you fill your knowledge of them with falsehoods and misrepresentations.
    I get my information from a credible source. If you can establish your claim to the contrary, fine. Otherwise, as far as I'm concerned you're simply running interference for child rapists.

    "The [open view] is an attempt to provide a more Biblically faithful, rationally coherent, and practically satisfying account of God and the divine-human relationship..." - Dr. John Sanders

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    Quote Originally Posted by Clete View Post
    Homosexuality is caused, for the most part, by molesting children.
    It is mostly boys who were molested between the ages of five and eight years who grow up to be homosexuals. Fortunately, most children who are so molested do not go on to be gay but the vast majority of gay men where repeatedly molested as children. It is the primary contributing factor. Also, the vast majority of child molestation is committed by men against boys (i.e. it is homosexual in nature).

    Thus, if homosexuality was re-criminalized and punished according to the principles of justice (i.e. if homosexuals were executed upon conviction) you'd not only rid the society of homosexuality but of child molestation as well. You'd solve both the problem and it's primary cause.
    It is possible that childhood traumas played a role in some people becoming LGBT. After all we are talking about an aspect of the basic personality and such traumas are quite likely to have some impact. I think is unlikely that all or even most LGBT persons are the result of such traumas though. The formation of the personality and sexual orientation is an extremely complex process involving many factors.

    It is also incredibly simplistic to think that just because such a psychological trauma may have been involved that it somehow makes that personality aspect 'curable' or a choice. For all we know it could be the same as trying to tell an amputee, if you just regrow that leg you will be fine.

    The final part seems to be rather silly circular logic to me. You seem to be saying all child molesters are homosexuals and all homosexuals are created by child molestation. Neither of those points are fully true even if some are created by such traumas. So no you will not solve the problem simply by killing all the gays.
    "Repubs must not allow [The President] to subvert the Constitution of the US for his own benefit & because he is unable to negotiate w/ Congress," Donald Trump

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    Quote Originally Posted by Clete View Post
    I get my information from a credible source. If you can establish your claim to the contrary, fine. Otherwise, as far as I'm concerned you're simply running interference for child rapists.
    Well my source was Jerry Falwell, who seems to be the first person to mention the motto in print and attributed it to the Rene Guyon Society in 1980.
    "Repubs must not allow [The President] to subvert the Constitution of the US for his own benefit & because he is unable to negotiate w/ Congress," Donald Trump

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kit the Coyote View Post
    It is possible that childhood traumas played a role in some people becoming LGBT. After all we are talking about an aspect of the basic personality and such traumas are quite likely to have some impact. I think is unlikely that all or even most LGBT persons are the result of such traumas though. The formation of the personality and sexual orientation is an extremely complex process involving many factors.
    It's caused primarily by child abuse and most often repeated sexual abuse. It is, by far, the number one contributing factor, as I've said already.

    It is also incredibly simplistic to think that just because such a psychological trauma may have been involved that it somehow makes that personality aspect 'curable' or a choice. For all we know it could be the same as trying to tell an amputee, if you just regrow that leg you will be fine.
    I'm not at all interested in curing perverts. I'm interested in preventing them.

    The final part seems to be rather silly circular logic to me.
    Why do people say stupid things like this?

    If you want to make an argument then do it. How much logical sense does it make to suggest that whether I've made a circular argument or not is a matter of opinion?

    You seem to be saying all child molesters are homosexuals and all homosexuals are created by child molestation.
    It is not my problem if you are unable to read.

    I did not say that.

    Neither of those points are fully true even if some are created by such traumas.
    Yeah, no kidding.

    So no you will not solve the problem simply by killing all the gays.
    Oh yes you will.

    At least as much as the problem can be solved in this fallen sinful world.

    Just laws do not create a panacea but merely the best version of society that is possible.

    Clete

    "The [open view] is an attempt to provide a more Biblically faithful, rationally coherent, and practically satisfying account of God and the divine-human relationship..." - Dr. John Sanders

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    Quote Originally Posted by Clete View Post
    If you want to make an argument then do it. How much logical sense does it make to suggest that whether I've made a circular argument or not is a matter of opinion?
    Simple, your solution will not work because a significant portion of childhood molestation is not caused by homosexuals. In the meantime, you will be executing large numbers of people who never molested a child.
    "Repubs must not allow [The President] to subvert the Constitution of the US for his own benefit & because he is unable to negotiate w/ Congress," Donald Trump

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    Quote Originally Posted by Clete View Post
    Way to defend the child molestation group, Kit.

    Hope you're proud of yourself.
    He's not "defending" any such thing and frankly, your ignorance in equating homosexuality with child molestation as if doing away with one would eradicate the other is some of the most jaw dropping claptrap that aCW would be proud of.

    There are plenty of gay people who are simply homosexual. They haven't been molested or brought up in unstable family backgrounds or environments etc, they're simply just homosexual. Them's the facts. It ain't a crime, nor should it be. The laws in relation to child abuse have tightened, not slackened so any slippery slope fallacy is only brought up by ignorant people who are unfamiliar with laws in relation.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kit the Coyote View Post
    Simple, your solution will not work because a significant portion of childhood molestation is not caused by homosexuals. In the meantime, you will be executing large numbers of people who never molested a child.
    He's arguing from a position of declaration, not fact.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Arthur Brain View Post
    There are plenty of gay people who are simply homosexual.


    like saying there are plenty of rapists who are simply rapists

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    Quote Originally Posted by Arthur Brain View Post
    The laws in relation to child abuse have tightened, not slackened so any slippery slope fallacy is only brought up by ignorant people who are unfamiliar with laws in relation.
    your argument is a lie, one you have made often

    not saying you are a liar, just saying that you repeat lies

    often

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kit the Coyote View Post
    Simple, your solution will not work because a significant portion of childhood molestation is not caused by homosexuals. In the meantime, you will be executing large numbers of people who never molested a child.
    What?

    You seriously need to learn how to read.

    The idea isn't to execute homosexuals because they molest children. Getting rid of large percentages of child molestation is simply a consequence of enacting just laws against homsoexuality.

    There are all kinds of possitive resutls a society enjoys from having just laws. If, for example, you recriminalized adultery, you'd have less murder, STDs, cirvical cancer, drug use, teen pregnancy, teen suicide, prison polution, etc, etc, etc.

    All because you enacted one single just law!

    Clete

    "The [open view] is an attempt to provide a more Biblically faithful, rationally coherent, and practically satisfying account of God and the divine-human relationship..." - Dr. John Sanders

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    "The [open view] is an attempt to provide a more Biblically faithful, rationally coherent, and practically satisfying account of God and the divine-human relationship..." - Dr. John Sanders

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    Quote Originally Posted by Arthur Brain View Post
    He's arguing from a position of declaration, not fact.
    he's arguing from a position of declaration of fact

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    Quote Originally Posted by Clete View Post
    What?

    You seriously need to learn how to read.

    The idea isn't to execute homosexuals because they molest children. Getting rid of large percentages of child molestation is simply a consequence of enacting just laws against homsoexuality.

    There are all kinds of possitive resutls a society enjoys from having just laws. If, for example, you recriminalized adultery, you'd have less murder, STDs, cirvical cancer, drug use, teen pregnancy, teen suicide, prison polution, etc, etc, etc.

    All because you enacted one single just law!

    Clete
    Uh, yeah, society would just be one happy utopia and nobody would have sex outside of heterosexual marriage at all...


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