User Tag List

Page 4 of 37 FirstFirst 123456714 ... LastLast
Results 46 to 60 of 542

Thread: What the Law and the Bible say about Homosexuality.

  1. #46
    Silver Member Clete's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    Seated in the heavenly places at God's right hand, in Him!
    Posts
    9,613
    Thanks
    641
    Thanked 6,839 Times in 3,637 Posts

    Mentioned
    62 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Rep Power
    2147774
    Quote Originally Posted by jgarden View Post
    Leviticus 20:9 For every one that curseth his father or his mother shall be surely put to death: he hath cursed his father or his mother; his blood shall be upon him.

    The Bible is also quite explicit as to the punishment that awaits those children that "curseth his father or his mother shall be surely put to death" - but I don't see conservative Christians demanding that this Mosaic law be enacted!

    Could it be that they are also in the habit of "cherry picking" as to which Biblical verses they wish to adhere - and those they choose to ignore?
    Is it your argument that God is unjust?

    The law you site does not refer to young children but adult drunkards who publically dishonor their parents. Further, several laws in the Old Testament only had proper application within the context of the nation of Israel and God's special relationship with that nation. There are good arguments on both sides in regards whether that applies to this particular law but the point is that you don't really care to understand the context of such things. You're more interested in making mindlessly cheap points designed to discredit God as a source of moral standards by which to build a just legal system.

    "The [open view] is an attempt to provide a more Biblically faithful, rationally coherent, and practically satisfying account of God and the divine-human relationship..." - Dr. John Sanders

  2. The Following User Says Thank You to Clete For Your Post:

    JudgeRightly (April 27th, 2019)

  3. #47
    BANNED
    Join Date
    Feb 2019
    Posts
    702
    Thanks
    128
    Thanked 175 Times in 135 Posts

    Mentioned
    3 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Rep Power
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by JudgeRightly View Post
    If a man makes a vow to the Lord, or swears an oath to bind himself by some agreement, he shall not break his word; he shall do according to all that proceeds out of his mouth. - Numbers 30:2 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/...2&version=NKJV

    Seems like a moral issue to me...
    If you try hard you can make anything into a moral issue.

    Quote Originally Posted by JudgeRightly View Post
    How does this ^^^
    |
    Have anything to do with this vvv
    It doesn't. I was asked to name laws not based on morality and I did. The fact that some of them are parallel moral issues does not mean that is why they are law.

    Quote Originally Posted by ok doser View Post

    I am surprised that you don't get what I am saying.

    Look at abortion: We argue against abortion based on a person's right to Life. Abortion infringes on another person's rights, namely, the baby. We do not argue it on moral grounds.

    Currently, the problem is that the law does not recognize the unborn as person with all the rights a person has under the Constitution. Tat is we we can kill them because at resent they have no rights.

  4. #48
    BANNED
    Join Date
    Feb 2019
    Posts
    702
    Thanks
    128
    Thanked 175 Times in 135 Posts

    Mentioned
    3 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Rep Power
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by jgarden View Post
    Leviticus 20:9 For every one that curseth his father or his mother shall be surely put to death: he hath cursed his father or his mother; his blood shall be upon him.

    The Bible is also quite explicit as to the punishment that awaits those children that "curseth his father or his mother shall be surely put to death" - but I don't see conservative Christians demanding that this Mosaic law be enacted!

    Could it be that they are also in the habit of "cherry picking" as to which Biblical verses they wish to adhere - and those they choose to ignore?

    Its pretty bad when jgarden actually gets it right. What he gets wrong here is thinking that all conservatives are aiming to make this stuff illegal.

    It would be enough if Gay Marriage were not legal. Sadly, the courts over-reached and took it upon themselves to re-define what marriage is, and that was not their prerogative to d.

  5. #49
    TOL Legend
    Join Date
    Sep 2015
    Posts
    25,580
    Thanks
    4,163
    Thanked 9,741 Times in 7,253 Posts

    Mentioned
    39 Post(s)
    Tagged
    2 Thread(s)
    Rep Power
    2147786
    Quote Originally Posted by Clete View Post
    Is it your argument that God is unjust?

    The law you site does not refer to young children but adult drunkards who publically dishonor their parents. Further, several laws in the Old Testament only had proper application within the context of the nation of Israel and God's special relationship with that nation. There are good arguments on both sides in regards whether that applies to this particular law ...

    which is the sort of thing that makes this place interesting


    ... but the point is that you don't really care to understand the context of such things. You're more interested in making mindlessly cheap points designed to discredit God ...

    ... and His followers



    which is the sort of thing that makes this place stale, tiresome, boring

  6. The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to ok doser For Your Post:

    Clete (April 28th, 2019),JudgeRightly (April 27th, 2019),Right Divider (April 27th, 2019)

  7. #50
    TOL Legend
    Join Date
    Sep 2015
    Posts
    25,580
    Thanks
    4,163
    Thanked 9,741 Times in 7,253 Posts

    Mentioned
    39 Post(s)
    Tagged
    2 Thread(s)
    Rep Power
    2147786
    Quote Originally Posted by TrumpTrainCA View Post

    Look at abortion: We argue against abortion based on a person's right to Life. Abortion infringes on another person's rights, namely, the baby. We do not argue it on moral grounds.
    that right, the right to life comes from nowhere except God's moral commandment to us: Thou Shalt Not Kill (unjustly)


    similarly, all contract law is based on God's moral commandment: Thou Shalt Not Steal

  8. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to ok doser For Your Post:

    JudgeRightly (April 27th, 2019),Right Divider (April 27th, 2019)

  9. #51
    BANNED
    Join Date
    Feb 2019
    Posts
    702
    Thanks
    128
    Thanked 175 Times in 135 Posts

    Mentioned
    3 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Rep Power
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by ok doser View Post
    that right, the right to life comes from nowhere except God's moral commandment to us: Thou Shalt Not Kill (unjustly)
    You are having difficulty separating things out. Even if there were no God, I would still be alive, and I would have the right to not have someone else end my life. That would be a self-evident fundamental right.

  10. #52
    BANNED
    Join Date
    Feb 2019
    Posts
    702
    Thanks
    128
    Thanked 175 Times in 135 Posts

    Mentioned
    3 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Rep Power
    0
    Look folks, we have a Constitution. Any law that is passed has to pass Constitutional scrutiny. You cannot pass a law that tells people what kind of sex they can have with each other. I challenge somebody to tell me where the institution covers that

  11. The Following User Says Thank You to TrumpTrainCA For Your Post:

    The Horn (April 29th, 2019)

  12. #53
    TOL Legend
    Join Date
    Sep 2015
    Posts
    25,580
    Thanks
    4,163
    Thanked 9,741 Times in 7,253 Posts

    Mentioned
    39 Post(s)
    Tagged
    2 Thread(s)
    Rep Power
    2147786
    Quote Originally Posted by TrumpTrainCA View Post
    You are having difficulty separating things out. Even if there were no God, I would still be alive...
    nope


    ...and I would have the right to not have someone else end my life. That would be a self-evident fundamental right.

    it never was absent God's command - in those societies that didn't know God, or who rejected His divine will (southern american slave-owners, for example) life was a tenuous affair, subject to the whims of the strong

    where was that "self-evident fundamental right" in stalinist russia?

    where was that "self-evident fundamental right" in maoist china?

    cambodia under pol pot?

    armenia under the turks?

    rwanda?

    nazi germany?

  13. The Following User Says Thank You to ok doser For Your Post:

    JudgeRightly (April 27th, 2019)

  14. #54
    TOL Legend
    Join Date
    Sep 2015
    Posts
    25,580
    Thanks
    4,163
    Thanked 9,741 Times in 7,253 Posts

    Mentioned
    39 Post(s)
    Tagged
    2 Thread(s)
    Rep Power
    2147786
    Quote Originally Posted by TrumpTrainCA View Post
    Look folks, we have a Constitution.
    which has been a good basis for government but not a Godly one

    Any law that is passed has to pass Constitutional scrutiny.

    right - we used to have such laws

    as a society, we agreed that they passed constitutional scrutiny

    You cannot pass a law that tells people what kind of sex they can have with each other.
    well, we still do, and we used to have more

    I challenge somebody to tell me where the institution covers that
    10 amendment

  15. The Following User Says Thank You to ok doser For Your Post:

    JudgeRightly (April 27th, 2019)

  16. #55
    BANNED
    Join Date
    Feb 2019
    Posts
    702
    Thanks
    128
    Thanked 175 Times in 135 Posts

    Mentioned
    3 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Rep Power
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by ok doser View Post
    10 amendment
    So you want states to pass state laws against sodomy. I assume that you know that state laws existed against sodomy and have all been gotten rid of.

    That ain't ever going to happen. Ever. You cannot force your morality on other people who do not share your morals.

  17. #56
    TOL Legend
    Join Date
    Sep 2015
    Posts
    25,580
    Thanks
    4,163
    Thanked 9,741 Times in 7,253 Posts

    Mentioned
    39 Post(s)
    Tagged
    2 Thread(s)
    Rep Power
    2147786
    Quote Originally Posted by TrumpTrainCA View Post
    You cannot force your morality on other people who do not share your morals.
    not sure why you keep making this claim when you yourself have argued against it

  18. The Following User Says Thank You to ok doser For Your Post:

    JudgeRightly (April 27th, 2019)

  19. #57
    TOL Legend
    Join Date
    Sep 2015
    Posts
    25,580
    Thanks
    4,163
    Thanked 9,741 Times in 7,253 Posts

    Mentioned
    39 Post(s)
    Tagged
    2 Thread(s)
    Rep Power
    2147786
    we impose our morality on pedophiles, we impose our morality on rapists, we impose our morality on beastophiles

    all of law is us imposing our morality on those who might not agree with it
    Last edited by ok doser; April 27th, 2019 at 01:17 PM.

  20. The Following User Says Thank You to ok doser For Your Post:

    JudgeRightly (April 27th, 2019)

  21. #58
    BANNED
    Join Date
    Feb 2019
    Posts
    702
    Thanks
    128
    Thanked 175 Times in 135 Posts

    Mentioned
    3 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Rep Power
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by ok doser View Post
    not sure why you keep making this claim when you yourself have argued against it
    I have not. When morality is the ONLY issue at hand with a proposed law, it will fail.

    If morality is but a secondary issue, and the main issue is protecting the rights of others, then your law has a chance of passing.

    I have provided numerous examples of this.

  22. #59
    TOL Legend
    Join Date
    Sep 2015
    Posts
    25,580
    Thanks
    4,163
    Thanked 9,741 Times in 7,253 Posts

    Mentioned
    39 Post(s)
    Tagged
    2 Thread(s)
    Rep Power
    2147786
    Quote Originally Posted by TrumpTrainCA View Post
    I have not. When morality is the ONLY issue at hand with a proposed law, it will fail.

    If morality is but a secondary issue, and the main issue is protecting the rights of others, then your law has a chance of passing.
    In what way does this apply to beastiality?

  23. The Following User Says Thank You to ok doser For Your Post:

    JudgeRightly (April 27th, 2019)

  24. #60
    BANNED
    Join Date
    Feb 2019
    Posts
    702
    Thanks
    128
    Thanked 175 Times in 135 Posts

    Mentioned
    3 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Rep Power
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by ok doser View Post
    In what way does this apply to bestiality?
    Ostensibly it would be protecting an animal's rights regarding unwanted sex. Yes, I know that sounds weird, but in America today animals have been given rights at the state level, and since they cannot consent to sex, that means that a human being having sex with an animal is having sex that is not consensual.

    Now, I grant you that many bestiality laws are old and were enacted for moral reasons just like the old sodomy laws were. But it is the new view of animal rights that keeps them from being overturned the way that the sodomy laws were overturned

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
About us
Since 1997 TheologyOnline (TOL) has been one of the most popular theology forums on the internet. On TOL we encourage spirited conversation about religion, politics, and just about everything else.

follow us