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    What the Law and the Bible say about Homosexuality.

    Many people are under the mistaken assumption that Homosexuality is not against the Law. However, in the Law of Moses we find that it is against the Law.

    Genesis 18:20-19:29 is the story of Sodom and Gomorrah.

    Leviticus 18:22 and Leviticus 20:13 are against Homosexuality.

    Leviticus 18:22 NASB - 'You shall not lie with a male as one lies with a female; it is an abomination.

    Leviticus 20:13 NASB - 'If [there is] a man who lies with a male as those who lie with a woman, both of them have committed a detestable act; they shall surely be put to death. Their bloodguiltiness is upon them.

    Romans 1:18-32 affirms that those who practice homosexuality are worthy of death.

    Romans 1:18-32 NASB - For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men who suppress the truth in unrighteousness, because that which is known about God is evident within them; for God made it evident to them. For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, being understood through what has been made, so that they are without excuse. For even though they knew God, they did not honor Him as God or give thanks, but they became futile in their speculations, and their foolish heart was darkened. Professing to be wise, they became fools, and exchanged the glory of the incorruptible God for an image in the form of corruptible man and of birds and four-footed animals and crawling creatures. Therefore God gave them over in the lusts of their hearts to impurity, so that their bodies would be dishonored among them. For they exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever. Amen. For this reason God gave them over to degrading passions; for their women exchanged the natural function for that which is unnatural, and in the same way also the men abandoned the natural function of the woman and burned in their desire toward one another, men with men committing indecent acts and receiving in their own persons the due penalty of their error. And just as they did not see fit to acknowledge God any longer, God gave them over to a depraved mind, to do those things which are not proper, being filled with all unrighteousness, wickedness, greed, evil; full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, malice; [they are] gossips, slanderers, haters of God, insolent, arrogant, boastful, inventors of evil, disobedient to parents, without understanding, untrustworthy, unloving, unmerciful; and although they know the ordinance of God, that those who practice such things are worthy of death, they not only do the same, but also give hearty approval to those who practice them.

    1 Corinthians 6:9-11 shows for believers that some used to be homosexuals.

    1 Corinthians 6:9-11 NASB - Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals, nor thieves, nor [the] covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, will inherit the kingdom of God. Such were some of you; but you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and in the Spirit of our God.

    1 Timothy 1:8-10 affirms that the Law is for those who practice homosexuality.

    1 Timothy 1:8-10 NASB - But we know that the Law is good, if one uses it lawfully, realizing the fact that law is not made for a righteous person, but for those who are lawless and rebellious, for the ungodly and sinners, for the unholy and profane, for those who kill their fathers or mothers, for murderers and immoral men and homosexuals and kidnappers and liars and perjurers, and whatever else is contrary to sound teaching,

    Therefore I conclude that homosexuality is bad and wrong, and that those who practice it are worthy of death, but that you can repent and not practice it any more.

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    What has that got to do with politics?

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    Quote Originally Posted by TrumpTrainCA View Post
    What has that got to do with politics?
    Homosexuality is to be discussed in the Politics Forum.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jacob View Post
    Homosexuality is to be discussed in the Politics Forum.
    Okay, but I am asking: How does you post relate to politics?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jacob View Post
    Homosexuality is to be discussed in the Politics Forum.
    not sure that's true

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jacob View Post
    Homosexuality is to be discussed in the Politics Forum.
    Quote Originally Posted by ok doser View Post
    not sure that's true
    Okay. But why not? It is listed as one of the things to talk about in the Politics Forum.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TrumpTrainCA View Post
    Okay, but I am asking: How does you post relate to politics?
    In that homosexuality is discussed in politics. For example, recriminalization or decriminalization. I take neither of these approaches.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TrumpTrainCA View Post
    Okay, but I am asking: How does you post relate to politics?
    Quote Originally Posted by Jacob View Post
    Homosexuality is to be discussed in the Politics Forum.
    Quote Originally Posted by TrumpTrainCA View Post
    What has that got to do with politics?
    Quote Originally Posted by Jacob View Post
    In that homosexuality is discussed in politics. For example, recriminalization or decriminalization. I take neither of these approaches.
    My understanding is that you have read the Opening Post. Homosexuality is under Politics when you read what is to be in Politics as a Forum. Does that answer your question? I believe that homosexuality is against God's Law. As such, no one should say that it is not against the Law. Further, to make it not against the Law is not a valid approach when dealing with God's Law.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jacob View Post
    My understanding is that you have read the Opening Post. Homosexuality is under Politics when you read what is to be in Politics as a Forum. Does that answer your question? I believe that homosexuality is against God's Law. As such, no one should say that it is not against the Law. Further, to make it not against the Law is not a valid approach when dealing with God's Law.
    Jacob,

    You clearly see that homosexuality is against the Mosaic Law and you state that you believe it is "bad and wrong" (i.e. immoral) and that those who practice it are worthy of death.

    Do you understand that when Moses and Paul say that such people are worthy of death, that they mean that such people deserve to be executed by the government? It isn't talking merely about a condition of spiritual unfitness or separation from God or some other spiritual condition. The bible directly advocates that homosexuality should be considered a capital crime and that the government should enforce such a law and that any government that does not do so is unjust.

    In short, do you agree that Christians should advocate the criminalization of homosexuality as well as the execution of anyone convicted of the crime?

    Also, remember when discussing this with unbelievers that you're likely talking with someone who is a legal positivist. Meaning that they think that whatever is legal is also moral and that therefore since homosexuality is legal in the U.S. that it is not immoral to commit homosexual acts. They do not care about what the bible says about it. That's why the confusion about how your opening post fits into politics. They think that the bible is entirely a religious book and have no idea that God put a complete legal justice system in the bible and don't care. They think that politics is the pervue of popular opinion, not objective morality.

    Clete

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    Quote Originally Posted by Clete View Post
    Jacob,

    You clearly see that homosexuality is against the Mosaic Law and you state that you believe it is "bad and wrong" (i.e. immoral) and that those who practice it are worthy of death.

    Do you understand that when Moses and Paul say that such people are worthy of death, that they mean that such people deserve to be executed by the government? It isn't talking merely about a condition of spiritual unfitness or separation from God or some other spiritual condition. The bible directly advocates that homosexuality should be considered a capital crime and that the government should enforce such a law and that any government that does not do so is unjust.

    In short, do you agree that Christians should advocate the criminalization of homosexuality as well as the execution of anyone convicted of the crime?

    Also, remember when discussing this with unbelievers that you're likely talking with someone who is a legal positivist. Meaning that they think that whatever is legal is also moral and that therefore since homosexuality is legal in the U.S. that it is not immoral to commit homosexual acts. They do not care about what the bible says about it. That's why the confusion about how your opening post fits into politics. They think that the bible is entirely a religious book and have no idea that God put a complete legal justice system in the bible and don't care. They think that politics is the pervue of popular opinion, not objective morality.

    Clete
    Is the criminalization of homosexuality a making it criminal? Because it already is criminal. Recriminalization would make it criminal again. Decriminalization would make it so that it is no longer criminal.

    Yes, not only are people worthy of death but some may die because of it, whether by the hands of the state or by a judge and individuals involved with the execution, according to Torah Law that is. It is a capital crime and not enforcing it may be unjust. If someone caused another person's homosexuality that is a more difficult situation. But it needs to be dealt with, and repentance must be available even then and even so. To be honest, I don't believe that it is legal in the US. I understand that people might think that it is legal in the US. It is immoral, and a person may die if they commit homosexual acts. Yes, we have a complete legal system in the Torah. The Law. I can see how people have a view of politics that is unacceptable. I am not well versed in how to describe this though. Suffice it to say people are not really serious with God.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jacob View Post
    Is the criminalization of homosexuality a making it criminal? Because it already is criminal. Recriminalization would make it criminal again. Decriminalization would make it so that it is no longer criminal.
    Use whatever prefix you feel is appropriate. The point is that it is not merely immoral, it is a crime and it is, therefore, unjust for it to be legal.

    Yes, not only are people worthy of death but some may die because of it, whether by the hands of the state or by a judge and individuals involved with the execution, according to Torah Law that is. It is a capital crime and not enforcing it may be unjust.
    Torah Law is not in force in the United States, or anywhere else on the planet for that matter. The question is whether you think it should be a part of the American criminal code.

    If someone caused another person's homosexuality that is a more difficult situation. But it needs to be dealt with, and repentance must be available even then and even so.
    Homosexuality is caused, for the most part, by molesting children. The homosexual group NAMBLA (North American Man Boy Love Association) has a slogan that states, "Sex before eight or it's too late!" It is mostly boys who were molested between the ages of five and eight years who grow up to be homosexuals. Fortunately, most children who are so molested do not go on to be gay but the vast majority of gay men where repeatedly molested as children. It is the primary contributing factor. Also, the vast majority of child molestation is committed by men against boys (i.e. it is homosexual in nature).

    Thus, if homosexuality was re-criminalized and punished according to the principles of justice (i.e. if homosexuals were executed upon conviction) you'd not only rid the society of homosexuality but of child molestation as well. You'd solve both the problem and it's primary cause.

    To be honest, I don't believe that it is legal in the US. I understand that people might think that it is legal in the US.
    Well, your belief doesn't come into it. The fact is that it is not only legal to be homosexual, it is legal for them to get married and enjoy all the societal benefits thereof.

    It is immoral, and a person may die if they commit homosexual acts.
    A person may die for driving their car too fast or for smoking cigarettes or eating too many cheeseburgers.

    Yes, we have a complete legal system in the Torah. The Law. I can see how people have a view of politics that is unacceptable. I am not well versed in how to describe this though. Suffice it to say people are not really serious with God.
    Well, you said a mouth full there!

    Even the ones who are serious about God are serious about hating Him and anything that has to do with Him or justice or morality. If you notice, much, if not most, of liberalism is about making society such that people can be sexually immoral without consequence. Homosexuality - legal. Adultery - legal. Fornication - legal. Pornography - legal. Killing unwanted babies - legal. Child molestation is still illegal but the so called "age of consent" continues to be lowered by liberals. Even the average convicted rapist only spends less than five years in prison.

    This county (the whole world really) has forgotten what justice looks like so long ago that it looks like barbarism to most people! Almost no one has any idea what justice looks like and would be appalled to hear someone describe it. Think of that! God, the only God that actually exists, who's character defines what is right and just looks to the average liberal like a totally uncivilized barbarian. It's no wonder they hate Him so much.

    Clete
    Last edited by Clete; April 27th, 2019 at 05:40 AM.

    "The [open view] is an attempt to provide a more Biblically faithful, rationally coherent, and practically satisfying account of God and the divine-human relationship..." - Dr. John Sanders

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    Quote Originally Posted by TrumpTrainCA View Post
    What has that got to do with politics?
    Quote Originally Posted by Jacob View Post
    In that homosexuality is discussed in politics. For example, recriminalization or decriminalization. I take neither of these approaches.
    Criminalization is ridiculous. These people suffer from a mental issue. How can we criminalize that?

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    Quote Originally Posted by TrumpTrainCA View Post
    Criminalization is ridiculous. These people suffer from a mental issue. How can we criminalize that?

    you criminilize the actions, not the disease, same as when a schizophrenic shoots somebody

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    Quote Originally Posted by TrumpTrainCA View Post
    Criminalization is ridiculous. These people suffer from a mental issue. How can we criminalize that?
    Quote Originally Posted by ok doser View Post
    you criminilize the actions, not the disease, same as when a schizophrenic shoots somebody
    And what action exactly would you criminalize? People are free to have sex however they want to.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TrumpTrainCA View Post
    People are free to have sex however they want to.
    No, they're not

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