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Thread: What the Law and the Bible say about Homosexuality.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jacob View Post
    It is not a restraint. Interesting post. Again, I have nothing against you being married. Thank you for posting well.
    1 Corinthians 7:7, 26-28, 32-35 NASB - 7 Yet I wish that all men were even as I myself am. However, each man has his own gift from God, one in this manner, and another in that. ... 26 I think then that this is good in view of the present distress, that it is good for a man to remain as he is. 27 Are you bound to a wife? Do not seek to be released. Are you released from a wife? Do not seek a wife. 28 But if you marry, you have not sinned; and if a virgin marries, she has not sinned. Yet such will have trouble in this life, and I am trying to spare you. ... 32 But I want you to be free from concern. One who is unmarried is concerned about the things of the Lord, how he may please the Lord; 33 but one who is married is concerned about the things of the world, how he may please his wife, 34 and [his interests] are divided. The woman who is unmarried, and the virgin, is concerned about the things of the Lord, that she may be holy both in body and spirit; but one who is married is concerned about the things of the world, how she may please her husband. 35 This I say for your own benefit; not to put a restraint upon you, but to promote what is appropriate and [to secure] undistracted devotion to the Lord.
    Jacob,

    You consistently on this thread have equated your singleness with "obeying God", and then point to scripture that tells you that you are obeying Paul's opinions, not God's commands. When I point this out to you you duck, dodge, weave, etc... rather than admit what the scripture actually says. Then you give a quote that omits the relevant verses in which Paul says what you quote is his own opinion and not God's commands.

    So long, Jacob. When you won't have an honest dialogue with me on this subject any conversation about it is over between the two of us.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Right Divider View Post
    I didn't say that you did.


    I'm saying that disease avoidance is a side-effect of following God's rules about sex and NOT one of the reason for the creation of them.


    Your scripture simply shows the beneficial side-effects.


    The intimate sexual relationship in a marriage is shown throughout scripture.


    Good for you.
    Sorry it has taken so long to get back to you.

    Where is your scriptural support for what I bolded? You keep on repeating this assertion without any scriptural support. You've had days to find it and yet you haven't posted it.

    It amazes me that you think the positive effects of God's laws are unintended side effects. Really? You seeming have very little appreciation for, and respect for, the infinite intelligence, wisdom, understanding, and lovingkindness of God. His multithreaded, mulitpurpose thinking and planning is displayed all throughout the Bible and yet you insist that He is very one dimensional with simplistic thinking and understanding.

    And, Exodus 15:26 is not saying that the benefits of obeying Gods commandments and statutes are unintended side effects. God is saying this is thought out beforehand. He tells the Israelites this even before He gives them the 10 commandments and the rest of the laws governing the nation of Israel. He says obey me and you will be healthy. That means this is one of the reasons He gave all those laws. Exodus 15 is chronologically prior to all of God's law giving to Israel.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ffreeloader View Post
    Sorry it has taken so long to get back to you.

    Where is your scriptural support for what I bolded? You keep on repeating this assertion without any scriptural support. You've had days to find it and yet you haven't posted it.
    Some people like you need "the perfect verse" to understand what is described all throughout scripture. I will not attempt to satisfy that sort of need.

    Quote Originally Posted by ffreeloader View Post
    It amazes me that you think the positive effects of God's laws are unintended side effects. Really? You seeming have very little appreciation for, and respect for, the infinite intelligence, wisdom, understanding, and lovingkindness of God. His multithreaded, mulitpurpose thinking and planning is displayed all throughout the Bible and yet you insist that He is very one dimensional with simplistic thinking and understanding.
    Who said that they are "unintended"? Once AGAIN, you like to MISREPRESENT others and FALSELY accuse them.
    Quote Originally Posted by Squeaky View Post
    That explains why your an idiot.
    Quote Originally Posted by God's Truth View Post
    Father figure, Son figure, and Holy Spirit figure.
    Quote Originally Posted by God's Truth View Post
    You preach against me for preaching obedience to Christ for salvation.
    Col 2:9 (AKJV/PCE)
    (2:9) For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

    1Tim 4:10 (AKJV/PCE)
    (4:10) For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.

    Something that was SPOKEN OF since the world began CANNOT be the SAME thing as something KEPT SECRET since the world began.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Right Divider View Post
    Some people like you need "the perfect verse" to understand what is described all throughout scripture. I will not attempt to satisfy that sort of need.


    Who said that they are "unintended"? Once AGAIN, you like to MISREPRESENT others and FALSELY accuse them.
    If a law isn't given for an intended result, and that result happens, then that is an unintended consequence, by definition. What you are saying by saying God didn't purposefully give His laws for reasons of health is that the resulting healthful lives are an unintended consequence of His laws. I'm not insulting you nor lying about you. I'm pointing out what your reasoning implies, although you don't seem to recognize the implications of your own reasoning.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ffreeloader View Post
    If a law isn't given for an intended result, and that result happens, then that is an unintended consequence, by definition. What you are saying by saying God didn't purposefully give His laws for reasons of health is that the resulting healthful lives are an unintended consequence of His laws. I'm not insulting you nor lying about you. I'm pointing out what your reasoning implies, although you don't seem to recognize the implications of your own reasoning.
    I'm not saying that they are unintended no matter how you want to put it.

    They are a natural consequence of following the intended value that God places in the marriage relationship.
    Quote Originally Posted by Squeaky View Post
    That explains why your an idiot.
    Quote Originally Posted by God's Truth View Post
    Father figure, Son figure, and Holy Spirit figure.
    Quote Originally Posted by God's Truth View Post
    You preach against me for preaching obedience to Christ for salvation.
    Col 2:9 (AKJV/PCE)
    (2:9) For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

    1Tim 4:10 (AKJV/PCE)
    (4:10) For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.

    Something that was SPOKEN OF since the world began CANNOT be the SAME thing as something KEPT SECRET since the world began.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Right Divider View Post
    I'm not saying that they are unintended no matter how you want to put it.

    They are a natural consequence of following the intended value that God places in the marriage relationship.
    And that means God thought that out beforehand, and those consequences are a part of the reason for the laws. Nothing God does ever has unintended consequences. His plans, His word, His laws, are all preplanned to the point we humans can't even recognize all the reasons behind them. He has multiple reasons for everything He does.

    It's like I said before. The fact that God told the Israelites what the results would be if they followed His commands and statutes before He gave the laws said His laws and the results of obeying them were planned out well in advance. You have argued against that position from the very beginning of this discussion. You have said, repeatedly, that God only gave the laws about sexual behavior to illustrate the relationship between Him and His people. It's just not true and the facts do not back you up.

    Oh, well, we obviously will never agree on this so I'll just agree we disagree and close this discussion on my part. I see no point in continuing it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ffreeloader View Post
    And that means God thought that out beforehand, and those consequences are a part of the reason for the laws. Nothing God does ever has unintended consequences. His plans, His word, His laws, are all preplanned to the point we humans can't even recognize all the reasons behind them. He has multiple reasons for everything He does.

    It's like I said before. The fact that God told the Israelites what the results would be if they followed His commands and statutes before He gave the laws said His laws and the results of obeying them were planned out well in advance. You have argued against that position from the very beginning of this discussion. You have said, repeatedly, that God only gave the laws about sexual behavior to illustrate the relationship between Him and His people. It's just not true and the facts do not back you up.

    Oh, well, we obviously will never agree on this so I'll just agree we disagree and close this discussion on my part. I see no point in continuing it.
    No, I never said that HE ONLY did that. I have always said that was secondary.

    If a person follows God's rules regarding sex in marriage, the issue of sexually transmitted disease is moot.

    And I agree with most of what you have said.
    Quote Originally Posted by Squeaky View Post
    That explains why your an idiot.
    Quote Originally Posted by God's Truth View Post
    Father figure, Son figure, and Holy Spirit figure.
    Quote Originally Posted by God's Truth View Post
    You preach against me for preaching obedience to Christ for salvation.
    Col 2:9 (AKJV/PCE)
    (2:9) For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

    1Tim 4:10 (AKJV/PCE)
    (4:10) For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.

    Something that was SPOKEN OF since the world began CANNOT be the SAME thing as something KEPT SECRET since the world began.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ffreeloader View Post
    Jacob,

    You consistently on this thread have equated your singleness with "obeying God", and then point to scripture that tells you that you are obeying Paul's opinions, not God's commands. When I point this out to you you duck, dodge, weave, etc... rather than admit what the scripture actually says. Then you give a quote that omits the relevant verses in which Paul says what you quote is his own opinion and not God's commands.

    So long, Jacob. When you won't have an honest dialogue with me on this subject any conversation about it is over between the two of us.
    I believe that you have completely misunderstood me.

    To say that I have said that being single is obeying God, it may be if God has called you to singleness, but that wouldn't be the case. So I wouldn't say that I am more righteous than you. It is other singles who have had a relationship and are not married, but I haven't. I am not married. Then when I become married I would have a relationship if I ever do.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jacob View Post
    I believe that you have completely misunderstood me.
    If so, that's your fault, not his.

    All anyone can do is read your posts, Jacob, not your mind. You seriously need to do some work on figuring out how to clearly write what you mean to say. Even this last post of yours was a muddy mess that I had to read two or three times to decipher what the heck you were trying to say and I'm still not sure about it. The following sentence isn't even a sentence...

    "It is other singles who have had a relationship and are not married, but I haven't."

    There's no verb! How do you get from the capital letter at the start to the period at the end without placing a verb somewhere inbetween? There's no way anyone could possibly understand that sentence without basically guessing as to your intent. Does this happen because you're just in too big a hurry and don't bother to read back through your posts to edit and revise them for clarity or is it because you just don't realize that you've made such errors and simply don't know how to express yourself in writing in an intelligible manner?

    Regardless, if you want to have substantive discussions with people on an internet forum, you need to learn to write and you need to take the time that's required to edit and revise your comments before posting them. Believe me, we'd all much rather have to wait an extra hour or even a day to get a response from you if it meant that the response was going to be of much higher quality. Believe me, the time it takes to edit and revise is time very well spent. Imagine how much time you wouldn't have wasted arguing over points that you don't even believe and re-explaining what you do believe. Doing things right the first time is always faster than having to go back and correct things.

    Clete

    "The [open view] is an attempt to provide a more Biblically faithful, rationally coherent, and practically satisfying account of God and the divine-human relationship..." - Dr. John Sanders

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jacob View Post
    I believe that you have completely misunderstood me.

    To say that I have said that being single is obeying God, it may be if God has called you to singleness, but that wouldn't be the case. So I wouldn't say that I am more righteous than you. It is other singles who have had a relationship and are not married, but I haven't. I am not married. Then when I become married I would have a relationship if I ever do.
    LIke Clete said, this is an incomprehensible post. To me you're still equating marriage status with righteousness and still referring to a passage of scripture where Paul says he's giving his own opinion, not commands from God.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Clete View Post
    If so, that's your fault, not his.

    All anyone can do is read your posts, Jacob, not your mind. You seriously need to do some work on figuring out how to clearly write what you mean to say. Even this last post of yours was a muddy mess that I had to read two or three times to decipher what the heck you were trying to say and I'm still not sure about it. The following sentence isn't even a sentence...

    "It is other singles who have had a relationship and are not married, but I haven't."

    There's no verb! How do you get from the capital letter at the start to the period at the end without placing a verb somewhere inbetween? There's no way anyone could possibly understand that sentence without basically guessing as to your intent. Does this happen because you're just in too big a hurry and don't bother to read back through your posts to edit and revise them for clarity or is it because you just don't realize that you've made such errors and simply don't know how to express yourself in writing in an intelligible manner?

    Regardless, if you want to have substantive discussions with people on an internet forum, you need to learn to write and you need to take the time that's required to edit and revise your comments before posting them. Believe me, we'd all much rather have to wait an extra hour or even a day to get a response from you if it meant that the response was going to be of much higher quality. Believe me, the time it takes to edit and revise is time very well spent. Imagine how much time you wouldn't have wasted arguing over points that you don't even believe and re-explaining what you do believe. Doing things right the first time is always faster than having to go back and correct things.

    Clete
    It is true that I do not have my own computer to use. However, I forget what that kind of sentence is called. No verb is amazing. I am not really accepting of other people not using both a noun and a verb in a sentence. However, I have heard that other languages use just nouns for a sentence. Interesting. No exception for the English language though. It does make sense to speak this way. It is a phrase not a sentence.

    Clete, I am an individual bound to the same God and Jesus Christ that you are. If I am different from you in any way, feel free to bring it up. Small things should be inconsequential. I use the same internet that you do. I should not be forced to be like you. But I do not think that you are forcing me to be like you. However, you do know what you like, and I am not keen on how to act your way. I do have an education, by the way. But I am responsible for what I post.

    Thank you for raising your concerns in a respectful way. Please don't get upset about anything that I post. It is not worth it to you. But do raise concerns if you ever have one.

    Back to the OP. Do you have any problem with it?

    Shalom.

    Jacob

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    Quote Originally Posted by ffreeloader View Post
    LIke Clete said, this is an incomprehensible post. To me you're still equating marriage status with righteousness and still referring to a passage of scripture where Paul says he's giving his own opinion, not commands from God.
    No. Being single without a relationship is more righteous than being single with a relationship, because without a relationship you are still being honest about not being married. However, some people date rather than court or an arranged marriage, and are betrothed or engaged before they are married.

    I appreciate Paul's opinion wherever it says that it is his opinion. But I refuse you not allowing his words to speak to me the way that they have. Where in what I posted did it say anything about his opinion not being worth anything? He is an apostle of Jesus Christ. He doesn't just speak. You should respect his opinion. If it is not his opinion then I hope that you accept it all the more.

    However, I have learned from your post here, and I thank you for it. I do not know if you are upset at me or something, but you shouldn't be. Every interaction with another fellow believer should be an opportunity to learn. With me it is that way with you. I do not know if you would ever give me marriage tips, but if I don't plan to get married because I am serving the Lord I hope it is okay that you not be required to do so (not that you were offering). However, when you talk about marriage status I think you must mean that you are married and I am not and I don't know what difference it makes to you. Again, Jesus and Paul never married.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jacob View Post
    It is true that I do not have my own computer to use. However, I forget what that kind of sentence is called.
    "Stupidity" is the word you're looking for.


    No verb is amazing. I am not really accepting of other people not using both a noun and a verb in a sentence. However, I have heard that other languages use just nouns for a sentence. Interesting. No exception for the English language though. It does make sense to speak this way. It is a phrase not a sentence.
    It's called talking like a blithering idiot.

    Use full sentences! You're in an English speaking country on a text based internet forum that universally uses English.

    IS THERE ANYTHING - ANYTHING AT ALL - THAT YOU WILL SIMPLY AGREE WITH AND ACCEPT?

    What sort of moron makes an argument trying to pretend that he wrote that stupid, unintellible "sentence" on purpose and that its the reader's fault if they didn't understand it?

    Clete, I am an individual bound to the same God and Jesus Christ that you are. If I am different from you in any way, feel free to bring it up. Small things should be inconsequential. I use the same internet that you do. I should not be forced to be like you. But I do not think that you are forcing me to be like you. However, you do know what you like, and I am not keen on how to act your way. I do have an education, by the way. But I am responsible for what I post.
    Who said even one syllable about forcing you to do anything?

    You can be as big an idiot as you want to be! Just don't whine about it when people get frustrated or angry because they're tired of trying to wade through your stupidity. Now that I know it's intentional, I, for one, am through having one ounce of patience with it.

    Thank you for raising your concerns in a respectful way. Please don't get upset about anything that I post. It is not worth it to you. But do raise concerns if you ever have one.
    Thanks for letting me know that you're not simply a waste of time but an intentional one.

    Back to the OP. Do you have any problem with it?

    Shalom.

    Jacob
    I wouldn't tell you if I did. There could be no possible point in doing so.

    "The [open view] is an attempt to provide a more Biblically faithful, rationally coherent, and practically satisfying account of God and the divine-human relationship..." - Dr. John Sanders

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jacob View Post
    No. Being single without a relationship is more righteous than being single with a relationship, because without a relationship you are still being honest about not being married. However, some people date rather than court or an arranged marriage, and are betrothed or engaged before they are married.

    I appreciate Paul's opinion wherever it says that it is his opinion. But I refuse you not allowing his words to speak to me the way that they have. Where in what I posted did it say anything about his opinion not being worth anything? He is an apostle of Jesus Christ. He doesn't just speak. You should respect his opinion. If it is not his opinion then I hope that you accept it all the more.

    However, I have learned from your post here, and I thank you for it. I do not know if you are upset at me or something, but you shouldn't be. Every interaction with another fellow believer should be an opportunity to learn. With me it is that way with you. I do not know if you would ever give me marriage tips, but if I don't plan to get married because I am serving the Lord I hope it is okay that you not be required to do so (not that you were offering). However, when you talk about marriage status I think you must mean that you are married and I am not and I don't know what difference it makes to you. Again, Jesus and Paul never married.
    All I'm going to comment on is what I bolded.

    Huh? Being single without a relationship is more righteous than being single with a relationship? It makes no sense, Jacob, unless you equate sex with a relationship. Having sex with, and having a relationship with, another person are two different things. Ever heard of a platonic relationship? Ever heard of being in love and practicing abstinence? Ever heard of simple friendship? All three of these types of relationships exclude sex. Being a brother, sister, father, mother, aunt, uncle, nephew, niece,or cousin to another person are types of relationships too. Even being an aquaintance to another person is having a type of relationship. It's no wonder you're so hard to understand. Your word usage is so vague it's almost impossible to understand you. Nobody but you thinks you must have sex to have a relationship with a person of the opposite sex. At least I've never met anyone who did/does. Seems to me you're obsessed with sex if that is the meaning of having a relationship in your mind. Your thinking is so muddled in this area that I wonder if you think you can't have a relationship with God because you and God can't have sex....

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    Quote Originally Posted by Clete View Post
    "Stupidity" is the word you're looking for.



    It's called talking like a blithering idiot.

    Use full sentences! You're in an English speaking country on a text based internet forum that universally uses English.

    IS THERE ANYTHING - ANYTHING AT ALL - THAT YOU WILL SIMPLY AGREE WITH AND ACCEPT?

    What sort of moron makes an argument trying to pretend that he wrote that stupid, unintellible "sentence" on purpose and that its the reader's fault if they didn't understand it?


    Who said even one syllable about forcing you to do anything?

    You can be as big an idiot as you want to be! Just don't whine about it when people get frustrated or angry because they're tired of trying to wade through your stupidity. Now that I know it's intentional, I, for one, am through having one ounce of patience with it.


    Thanks for letting me know that you're not simply a waste of time but an intentional one.


    I wouldn't tell you if I did. There could be no possible point in doing so.
    It's okay. Just that a thread should follow the OP. I suppose I contradicted myself with No exception for the English language though.

    Listen, I was not picking a fight and you seem to be fighting me for no reason. Blessings to you Clete. Nothing was intentional.

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