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Thread: Church and Government

  1. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by TrumpTrainCA View Post
    Oh, okay. Well in that case.......


    Because God gave us free will we have to come to grips with the fact that we will always live in a pluralistic society, with believers, non-believers, and believers in false religions. Those people will all have a say in government. So, there is no way we can force specifically Christian moralities or ethics onto others.

    What we can do is stay in the game, elect officials that have our values and will pass laws the reflect our values.
    What does pluralistic mean?

    What about running for office or being willing to be elected yourself rather than voting for people that have your values? Be involved yourself rather than vote others in?

    If we don't force our values upon others might they come to believe them as well themselves? How do you witness to the truth? I say this because allowing sin free reign does not make sense. It doesn't make sense in ourselves. Maybe it makes sense in the sense of not resisting an evil person.

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    Over 1000 post club exminister's Avatar
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    God wants no King. The Old Testament shows how bad an idea it is. This president does not seek God. He has said publicly he has no reason to ask forgiveness. He is as corrupt as they come. He only uses religion, which is what con men do.

    Again Christians who tie themselves into worldly politics only soils the gospel. Jesus is King period. Why settle for the profane when you have the divine? Why do you think He said His kingdom is not of this world?

    John 18:36
    Jesus said, "My kingdom is not of this world. If it were, my servants would fight to prevent my arrest by the Jewish leaders. But now my kingdom is from another place."

    Why do you think Paul wrote this?

    1 Corinthians 5
    9 I wrote you in my letter not to associate with sexually immoral people. 10 I was not including the sexually immoral of this world, or the greedy and swindlers, or idolaters. In that case you would have to leave this world. 11 But now I am writing you not to associate with anyone who claims to be a brother but is sexually immoral or greedy, an idolater or a verbal abuser, a drunkard or a swindler. With such a man do not even eat.

    12 What business of mine is it to judge those outside the church? Are you not to judge those inside? 13 God will judge those outside. “Expel the wicked man from among you.”


    The church is making the same mistake over and over. They associate themselves with the world and not the next.


    Isaiah 48:20
    "Leave Babylon, flee from the Babylonians! Announce this with shouts of joy and proclaim it. Send it out to the ends of the earth; say, "The LORD has redeemed his servant Jacob."
    Proverbs 17:19 Whoever loves a quarrel loves sin

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    Over 1000 post club exminister's Avatar
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    TTCA,

    You might not care about God's name in the world but He does.

    Ezekiel 20:21-22
    But the children [Israel] rebelled against me: They did not follow my decrees, they were not careful to keep my laws—although the man who obeys them will live by them and they desecarated my Sabbaths. So I said I would pour out my wrath on them and spend my anger against them in the desert. But I withheld my hand, and for the sake of my name I did what would keep it from being profaned in the eyes of the nations in whose sight I had brought them out.
    Proverbs 17:19 Whoever loves a quarrel loves sin

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aimiel View Post
    God also wants to be King of the United States of America, but in lieu of that: He's installed a President who's seeking Him and searching for Him with all of his heart. God pulled the wool over the eyes of the Democratic Party, thinking they had the election in the bag. He can do that sort of thing, being God. The man who is in the office was described, several years before he was elected as, "A trumpet for The Almighty." He will do two terms in office and God will get the glory.
    If you think Trump is seeking God in all he does, you've pulled wool over your own eyes.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jacob View Post
    What does pluralistic mean?
    It means a society filled with many people of differing beliefs and religions and ethics/morals.


    Quote Originally Posted by Jacob View Post
    .....What about running for office or being willing to be elected yourself rather than voting for people that have your values? Be involved yourself rather than vote others in?.....
    That's great. I am all for it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jacob View Post
    ......If we don't force our values upon others might they come to believe them as well themselves? How do you witness to the truth? I say this because allowing sin free reign does not make sense. It doesn't make sense in ourselves. Maybe it makes sense in the sense of not resisting an evil person.

    I was speaking strictly in the context of government and the laws it can pass.

    Witnessing to others is something everybody should do on a daily basis, and has nothing really to do with government.

    But if you become a Senator or a President, you need to find a way to promote values in a non-sectarian way. For example, if you are against abortion, you need to make the case without using the Bible, because many folks don't recognize the Bible as the Word of God. Same for gay marriage, or whatever. You would need to make make your case appealing and convincing to everyone regardless of their beliefs.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TrumpTrainCA View Post
    It means a society filled with many people of differing beliefs and religions and ethics/morals.




    That's great. I am all for it.




    I was speaking strictly in the context of government and the laws it can pass.

    Witnessing to others is something everybody should do on a daily basis, and has nothing really to do with government.

    But if you become a Senator or a President, you need to find a way to promote values in a non-sectarian way. For example, if you are against abortion, you need to make the case without using the Bible, because many folks don't recognize the Bible as the Word of God. Same for gay marriage, or whatever. You would need to make make your case appealing and convincing to everyone regardless of their beliefs.
    http://prolifeprofiles.com/docs/WTti...d-20170123.pdf

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    Quote Originally Posted by TrumpTrainCA View Post
    It means a society filled with many people of differing beliefs and religions and ethics/morals.




    That's great. I am all for it.




    I was speaking strictly in the context of government and the laws it can pass.

    Witnessing to others is something everybody should do on a daily basis, and has nothing really to do with government.

    But if you become a Senator or a President, you need to find a way to promote values in a non-sectarian way. For example, if you are against abortion, you need to make the case without using the Bible, because many folks don't recognize the Bible as the Word of God. Same for gay marriage, or whatever. You would need to make make your case appealing and convincing to everyone regardless of their beliefs.
    The Gospel does not change once a person is in office.

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    Quote Originally Posted by exminister View Post
    God wants no King. The Old Testament shows how bad an idea it is. This president does not seek God. He has said publicly he has no reason to ask forgiveness. He is as corrupt as they come. He only uses religion, which is what con men do.

    Again Christians who tie themselves into worldly politics only soils the gospel. Jesus is King period. Why settle for the profane when you have the divine? Why do you think He said His kingdom is not of this world?

    John 18:36
    Jesus said, "My kingdom is not of this world. If it were, my servants would fight to prevent my arrest by the Jewish leaders. But now my kingdom is from another place."

    Why do you think Paul wrote this?

    1 Corinthians 5
    9 I wrote you in my letter not to associate with sexually immoral people. 10 I was not including the sexually immoral of this world, or the greedy and swindlers, or idolaters. In that case you would have to leave this world. 11 But now I am writing you not to associate with anyone who claims to be a brother but is sexually immoral or greedy, an idolater or a verbal abuser, a drunkard or a swindler. With such a man do not even eat.

    12 What business of mine is it to judge those outside the church? Are you not to judge those inside? 13 God will judge those outside. “Expel the wicked man from among you.”


    The church is making the same mistake over and over. They associate themselves with the world and not the next.


    Isaiah 48:20
    "Leave Babylon, flee from the Babylonians! Announce this with shouts of joy and proclaim it. Send it out to the ends of the earth; say, "The LORD has redeemed his servant Jacob."
    Quote Originally Posted by exminister View Post
    TTCA,

    You might not care about God's name in the world but He does.

    Ezekiel 20:21-22
    But the children [Israel] rebelled against me: They did not follow my decrees, they were not careful to keep my laws—although the man who obeys them will live by them and they desecarated my Sabbaths. So I said I would pour out my wrath on them and spend my anger against them in the desert. But I withheld my hand, and for the sake of my name I did what would keep it from being profaned in the eyes of the nations in whose sight I had brought them out.
    If you know about something it may be good to say something, so good job.

    However, in the Torah God speaks of a King.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jacob View Post
    The Gospel does not change once a person is in office.
    I know that, but when you are in office you have to make your case for your proposals to people who do NOT believe in the Gospel too.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TrumpTrainCA View Post
    I know that, but when you are in office you have to make your case for your proposals to people who do NOT believe in the Gospel too.
    I realize that communicating with others who do not share my beliefs may be a challenge, but it does not change the message.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JudgeRightly View Post
    If you think Trump is seeking God in all he does, you've pulled wool over your own eyes.
    Amen and Amen.

    Hopefully your post curtails alot of this Trump worship around here...
    The state — whatever its particular forms — always expresses itself as a collective form of property ownership. All political systems are socialistic, in that they are premised upon the subservience of individual interests to collective authority. Communism, fascism, lesser forms of state socialism, and welfarism, are all premised upon the state’s usurpation of privately-owned property. Whether one chooses to be aligned with the political "Left," "Right," or "Middle," comes down to nothing more than a preference for a particular franchise of state socialism.

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    Quote Originally Posted by drbrumley View Post
    Amen and Amen.

    Hopefully your post curtails alot of this Trump worship around here...
    If Trump has done something wrong I want to know what it is.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jacob View Post
    If Trump has done something wrong I want to know what it is.
    He supports homosexual rights, he supports abortion, and that's just for starters.

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  16. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by JudgeRightly View Post
    He supports homosexual rights, he supports abortion, and that's just for starters.
    I have heard him against abortion, and I have seen him with a flag he should have no business with, radio and internet... not in person.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jacob View Post
    I have heard him against abortion,
    He's funded Planned Parenthood at Obama levels, already giving PP one billion (with a B) dollars.

    Shutting down abortion mills such as planned parenthood would be against abortion.

    and I have seen him with a flag he should have no business with, radio and internet... not in person.
    https://www.lifesitenews.com/news/do...kindergarten-f

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