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Thread: Church and Government

  1. #1
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    Church and Government

    Shalom!

    I am wondering about God's Law in Government. If we don't find it in the Church because the church doesn't have courts or believes in the New Covenant Law instead of the Law of Moses, does God's Law have a place somewhere else such as in government to include the law of the land? What commandments of God should be a part of our nation's laws? I don't want to impede upon government as a religious Jew or Christian. Maybe we should have our own law courts. But what do we do when it seems like the law is not in place anywhere in our lives?

    I am a New Covenant believer who observes some of the Law of Moses. For example, I sometimes wear tzitzit but I don't have phylacteries. I wear a kippah at times as well. It is rabbinical as may be the belief that one man and one woman is what defines marriage (not one man and more than one wife).

    Since God's Law is about love of God and love of our neighbor I don't know why anyone would reject it. However, I believe that I have been forgiven, am being forgiven, or will be forgiven for crimes that I have committed against God's Law and whatever law agrees with it.

    I want to live according to the Spirit of God and not be under Law.

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    Do you believe in "Free Will"?

    I have a reason for asking, I am not trying to go off topic.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TrumpTrainCA View Post
    Do you believe in "Free Will"?

    I have a reason for asking, I am not trying to go off topic.
    I believe that my will is free to make decisions. Not to sin. No freedom to sin.

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    Over 1000 post club exminister's Avatar
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    I think the Bible clearly shows when the faithful get involved in worldly politics it soils them and gives God a bad name. We know how bad it went Israel wanted a King. Jesus said His kingdom is not of this world. Paul focused on the church in his counseling and reprimands and not the world.

    Now being devoted to the president as King sweeps away any moral integrity.

    As Isaiah wrote to his people Come out of Babylon.
    Proverbs 17:19 Whoever loves a quarrel loves sin

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    Quote Originally Posted by exminister View Post
    I think the Bible clearly shows when the faithful get involved in worldly politics it soils them and gives God a bad name.
    With the current political layout we have now, that is certainly true. But that is a result of Christians LEAVING the seats of power.

    In other words, we shouldn't abandon government altogether. Rather, we should continue to advocate what is good and just and right, even in the face of a wicked government.

    We know how bad it went Israel wanted a King. Jesus said His kingdom is not of this world.
    This assumes that God did not also want a king for Israel.

    Yet God, a few hundred years before Saul was anointed, and before David was chosen, God gave Moses laws on how... you guessed it... kings were supposed to behave.

    Not patriarchs, not presidents, not dictators.

    Kings.

    God wanted a king for Israel.

    Israel wanted a king before God was ready to give them one, and before they were ready for one.

    Paul focused on the church in his counseling and reprimands and not the world.
    And?

    He still upheld the authority of government over the people.

    Now being devoted to the president as King sweeps away any moral integrity.
    I (personally) don't want a president.

    I want a king.

    As Isaiah wrote to his people Come out of Babylon.
    Which has nothing to do with this topic.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jacob View Post
    I believe that my will is free to make decisions. Not to sin. No freedom to sin.
    So you do not believe in free will. You do not believe that man has the freedom to reject or accept God? Well, that blows the answer I was going to give you about government.

    I believe you are wrong. I have the choice to accept, or reject God. God did not create robot who would worship him. He want man to follow him out of Love, out of his own free will.

    Anyway, as I said, my answer is no good now. Carry on

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    Quote Originally Posted by TrumpTrainCA View Post
    So you do not believe in free will. You do not believe that man has the freedom to reject or accept God? Well, that blows the answer I was going to give you about government.

    I believe you are wrong. I have the choice to accept, or reject God. God did not create robot who would worship him. He want man to follow him out of Love, out of his own free will.

    Anyway, as I said, my answer is no good now. Carry on
    I do not believe that I am a robot. I believe that I can accept or reject God, but that is kind of bold as I do not want to reject Him.

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    Quote Originally Posted by exminister View Post
    I think the Bible clearly shows when the faithful get involved in worldly politics it soils them and gives God a bad name. We know how bad it went Israel wanted a King. Jesus said His kingdom is not of this world. Paul focused on the church in his counseling and reprimands and not the world.

    Now being devoted to the president as King sweeps away any moral integrity.

    As Isaiah wrote to his people Come out of Babylon.
    To choose to believe and do the right thing, or the right things, is noble.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JudgeRightly View Post
    With the current political layout we have now, that is certainly true. But that is a result of Christians LEAVING the seats of power.

    In other words, we shouldn't abandon government altogether. Rather, we should continue to advocate what is good and just and right, even in the face of a wicked government.



    This assumes that God did not also want a king for Israel.

    Yet God, a few hundred years before Saul was anointed, and before David was chosen, God gave Moses laws on how... you guessed it... kings were supposed to behave.

    Not patriarchs, not presidents, not dictators.

    Kings.

    God wanted a king for Israel.

    Israel wanted a king before God was ready to give them one, and before they were ready for one.



    And?

    He still upheld the authority of government over the people.



    I (personally) don't want a president.

    I want a king.



    Which has nothing to do with this topic.
    God wanted a King for Israel, and the people wanted a King.

    In the United States of America we have a Constitution so a President and not a King.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jacob View Post
    God wanted a King for Israel, and the people wanted a King.
    They wanted a king before God had planned to give them one.

    In the United States of America we have a Constitution so a President and not a King.
    A king and a constitution are not mutually exclusive.

    I advocate for a constitutional monarchy.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JudgeRightly View Post
    They wanted a king before God had planned to give them one.



    A king and a constitution are not mutually exclusive.

    I advocate for a constitutional monarchy.
    God wanted a King for them in the Torah.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jacob View Post
    God wanted a King for them in the Torah.
    Deuteronomy 17:14-20 New American Standard Bible (NASB)

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    Over 1000 post club exminister's Avatar
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    I don't see it as God wanted a King for Israel. He wanted to be the King of Israel. He just conceded they will make one anyway (like the proclivity is for one today) and gave some guidelines if they MUST have a human king.

    Deu 17
    14 When you enter the land the Lord your God is giving you and have taken possession of it and settled in it, and you say, “Let us set a king over us like all the nations around us,” 15 be sure to appoint over you a king the Lord your God chooses.
    Proverbs 17:19 Whoever loves a quarrel loves sin

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    God also wants to be King of the United States of America, but in lieu of that: He's installed a President who's seeking Him and searching for Him with all of his heart. God pulled the wool over the eyes of the Democratic Party, thinking they had the election in the bag. He can do that sort of thing, being God. The man who is in the office was described, several years before he was elected as, "A trumpet for The Almighty." He will do two terms in office and God will get the glory.
    "That man of sin must first be revealed." -- Jesus

    If you haven't tried: you've already failed. -- Aimiel

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jacob View Post
    I do not believe that I am a robot. I believe that I can accept or reject God, but that is kind of bold as I do not want to reject Him.
    Oh, okay. Well in that case.......


    Because God gave us free will we have to come to grips with the fact that we will always live in a pluralistic society, with believers, non-believers, and believers in false religions. Those people will all have a say in government. So, there is no way we can force specifically Christian moralities or ethics onto others.

    What we can do is stay in the game, elect officials that have our values and will pass laws the reflect our values.

    Quote Originally Posted by exminister View Post
    I think the Bible clearly shows when the faithful get involved in worldly politics it soils them and gives God a bad name.......
    I don't buy that for a second.

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