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Thread: The Death Penalty. What for?

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    The Death Penalty. What for?

    Since we have forgiveness of sins in God in Jesus Christ, for what is there a death penalty if there is for anything?

    This is different from defending the death penalty. Because there may not be one anymore, but if there is what is it for (and how do we know that there still is a death penalty for anything?)? In other words, is there a death penalty for anything?

    Recently someone on TOL implied that there is. This is after a long time of my asking, but it seemed to be independent of my asking except that I asked about what they said or I asked. Meaning, defending Torah Law or the Law of Moses or God's Law is great, and even death for murderers as man was created in the image of God, but can anyone build a case now against those things that people deem worthy of death? Can anyone be put to death now or are we just dealing with thoughts and what people think? The reality of the situation brings a gravity to it, that we are not just talking words here but then that history has seemed to indicate that then no one says anything or has serious conversation about it. Can we actually debate this or is it impossible?

    I know that the Bible says the wages of sin is death. Wages are what a person is due. But the free gift of God in Jesus Christ is eternal life. So does that mean that there are no longer any wages? Are they only for those who do not have eternal life? Etc....

    I believe that I have eternal life. I believe that I have also done things worthy of death. I can answer questions and confess in this process. I also believe in justice. But I do not know what I can say about that being that I have done things worthy of death myself. Should I just say what God says and then not do anything to cause anyone's death? Or is that already too much to say what God says? If what God says is for this day and age even.

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    There are still temporal punishments to be paid for your actions.

    If you murder somebody, Jesus may forgive you and you may go to heaven, but here on earth you must still pay for your crime.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TrumpTrainCA View Post
    There are still temporal punishments to be paid for your actions.
    What does this mean? What is a temporal punishment? What is "to be paid for your actions"?
    If you murder somebody, Jesus may forgive you and you may go to heaven, but here on earth you must still pay for your crime.
    Murderers don't inherit the kingdom of God or Heaven. Is it possible that some people used to be murderers, such as with those who used to be all sorts of things in 1 Corinthians 6?

    There are different kinds of murder. If you kill someone accidentally you are to flee to a city of refuge until the High Priest dies at which time you are free.

    I have been asked before if someone was bothering me. I basically said yes but I don't know what happened after that.

    Other than that I believe that Osama Bin Laden was a murderer so I was against him. He is dead now.

    If you pay on earth for your crime is that the death penalty as prescribed in the Torah?

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    Definition of temporal punishment. : a punishment for sin that according to Roman Catholic doctrine may be expiated in this world or if not sufficiently expiated here will be exacted in full in purgatory.


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    Genesis 9:6 King James Version (KJV)
    6 Whoso sheddeth man's blood, by man shall his blood be shed: for in the image of God made he man.
    He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain what he cannot lose.

    Jim Elliot

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    Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers, backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents, without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful: who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.

    'Such' things means just that: those who do these things and similar things deserve to be put to death. Those who are involved with the local police departments or the Department of Corrections are ministers of God who work on our behalf and even on behalf of the criminals.

    For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to the evil. Wilt thou then not be afraid of the power? do that which is good, and thou shalt have praise of the same: for he is the minister of God to thee for good. But if thou do that which is evil, be afraid; for he beareth not the sword in vain: for he is the minister of God, a revenger to execute wrath upon him that doeth evil. Wherefore ye must needs be subject, not only for wrath, but also for conscience sake.
    "That man of sin must first be revealed." -- Jesus

    If you haven't tried: you've already failed. -- Aimiel

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bright Raven View Post
    Genesis 9:6 King James Version (KJV)
    6 Whoso sheddeth man's blood, by man shall his blood be shed: for in the image of God made he man.
    Do you have other scripture?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aimiel View Post
    Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers, backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents, without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful: who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.

    'Such' things means just that: those who do these things and similar things deserve to be put to death. Those who are involved with the local police departments or the Department of Corrections are ministers of God who work on our behalf and even on behalf of the criminals.

    For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to the evil. Wilt thou then not be afraid of the power? do that which is good, and thou shalt have praise of the same: for he is the minister of God to thee for good. But if thou do that which is evil, be afraid; for he beareth not the sword in vain: for he is the minister of God, a revenger to execute wrath upon him that doeth evil. Wherefore ye must needs be subject, not only for wrath, but also for conscience sake.
    This is very good. Thank you.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aimiel View Post
    Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers, backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents, without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful: who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.
    Being filled with all,
    statement introducing all of these bad things.

    unrighteousness,
    I don't want to be unrighteous. I want to be righteous.

    fornication,
    I don't want to be found a fornicator. I want to be found pure before God.

    wickedness,
    I don't want to be thought of or be wicked.

    covetousness,
    I don't want to covet.

    maliciousness,
    I don't want to be malicious.

    full of envy,
    I do not want to be full of envy.

    murder,
    Murder, even a murderous attitude, is not for me.

    debate,
    I implied that I want to debate and on a debate website here, and though about Theology I don't want to be engaged in debate ever that detracts from who God is and what He says.

    deceit,
    I do not want to be associated with deceit.

    malignity,
    This is not for me.

    whisperers,
    It profits no one to be whispering whether this is a sin of intent or not.

    backbiters,
    Backbiters is not a good thing.

    haters of God,
    I don't like this part. I don't want to be a hater of God. I feel that so many people do.

    despiteful,
    Not a good thing. Difficult exactly to know what this is but I am using Google to search for some of these.

    proud,
    It is not good to be proud. I feel I might be proud by being busy with "righteous" things like wearing tzitzit or something. I don't have anything to boast about, but maybe I do anyway.

    boasters,
    It is not good to boast. Interesting maybe I just saw that one coming. I don't want to boast about anything. That would be or is not a good sign or indicative of an attitude or disposition of humility.

    inventors of evil things,
    Evil things exist. There is no purpose in inventing anything new.

    disobedient to parents,
    I have found in my life that I have been disobedient to my parents.

    without understanding,
    It is good to have understanding. I believe that God has given me some understanding. To be without understanding is to be in the dark about something, which is especially bad about anything factual or moral.

    covenantbreakers,
    This is interesting because I don't want to make a covenant. But maybe God has already made the covenants that I am not supposed to be breaking or that I am supposed to be a part of. Is it bad to not want to make a covenant?

    without natural affection,
    Natural affection is desired, to love genuinely and care about people with a real sense of actually caring and for example not just saying that you do.

    implacable,
    It is better to be sensitive enough to other people that you are not barging on or barging in with your own (my own) things whatever they are, obviously turned against God.

    unmerciful,
    Mercy is good. It triumphs over judgment. It is good to show mercy or be merciful.

    who knowing the judgment of God,
    Which we should know.

    that they which commit such things are worthy of death,
    Okay. We should know this.

    not only do the same,
    We should not do this.

    but have pleasure in them that do them.
    It does not make sense to do that which others who are evil do.
    'Such' things means just that: those who do these things and similar things deserve to be put to death. Those who are involved with the local police departments or the Department of Corrections are ministers of God who work on our behalf and even on behalf of the criminals.
    I think you are saying that even criminals need a fair assessment.
    For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to the evil. Wilt thou then not be afraid of the power? do that which is good, and thou shalt have praise of the same: for he is the minister of God to thee for good. But if thou do that which is evil, be afraid; for he beareth not the sword in vain: for he is the minister of God, a revenger to execute wrath upon him that doeth evil. Wherefore ye must needs be subject, not only for wrath, but also for conscience sake.
    wrath is that which hurts injures kills, but conscience sake is about doing the right thing because it is right and not doing that which we would feel guilty about.

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    A lot of Christians don't realize that backbiting is very dangerous, because they just might be asked one day why they were biting Jesus' Back. They don't realize that their fellow-Christian has Jesus inside them.
    "That man of sin must first be revealed." -- Jesus

    If you haven't tried: you've already failed. -- Aimiel

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aimiel View Post
    A lot of Christians don't realize that backbiting is very dangerous, because they just might be asked one day why they were biting Jesus' Back. They don't realize that their fellow-Christian has Jesus inside them.
    Some people are genuinely saved and some are not?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jacob View Post
    Some people are genuinely saved and some are not?
    Other than attempting to give what information we can to those willing to learn... we aren't to judge someone as lost simply because they don't believe the way that we do.
    "That man of sin must first be revealed." -- Jesus

    If you haven't tried: you've already failed. -- Aimiel

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aimiel View Post
    Other than attempting to give what information we can to those willing to learn... we aren't to judge someone as lost simply because they don't believe the way that we do.
    Okay.

    Can someone mature in the LORD or mature in the Lord evaluate someone to assure that they are saved rather than thinking that they are saved when they are not?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jacob View Post
    Okay.

    Can someone mature in the LORD or mature in the Lord evaluate someone to assure that they are saved rather than thinking that they are saved when they are not?
    I can tell you that someone who asks Christ to come into their heart who's repented is saved. Doubting one's salvation doesn't make it go away. Either one trusts The Word of God or they don't. It sounds like you're talking about someone who merely needs to read The Word of God or be assured about the promises that God makes for those who believe. When one has God living inside them He is the inward witness and no one who has Him inside them can be convinced that they are lost. I remember having a relationship with The Lord in my inner man long before I ever walked down the aisle and got saved.
    "That man of sin must first be revealed." -- Jesus

    If you haven't tried: you've already failed. -- Aimiel

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aimiel View Post
    I can tell you that someone who asks Christ to come into their heart who's repented is saved. Doubting one's salvation doesn't make it go away. Either one trusts The Word of God or they don't. It sounds like you're talking about someone who merely needs to read The Word of God or be assured about the promises that God makes for those who believe. When one has God living inside them He is the inward witness and no one who has Him inside them can be convinced that they are lost. I remember having a relationship with The Lord in my inner man long before I ever walked down the aisle and got saved.
    Your words are very good. Thank you. Yes, what you said is good for those who know and for those who do not know.

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